Driving in San Francisco?
 

Im visiting San Francisco with my wife for the first time and are excited. We live in Kansas City and have heard a lot about SF. <BR>My question is should we rent a car in San Francisco or whould we huff it by foot? Ive heard that drivers in that area are nuts on the freeways-should I opt for a shuttle into town or rent? <BR> <BR>By the way, were planning sidetrips to Napa and Oakland's Chinatown and Jack London Square. <BR> <BR>Please give me some suggestions-id appreaciate it.

Drivers are no crazier than in Boston.. We've rented a car both times we have been there and have taken southern route to Carmel and Monterey and north to Sonoma and Napa.. As for driving downtown S.F. if you remember the strees alternate one way your safe.. The only problem we had was coming home very late one night and the prospects of going down one of the infamous hills scared us..we we drove around until we could see the bottom before we drove down...LOL.. Oh yes, cabs are relatively inexpensive in S.F.

I've done it both ways and I would say to go with whatever you will feel comfortable with. Driving in San Francisco is no worse than driving in any other big city. You don't say where you are staying but if you make it a central location you might find it just as easy without a car. Parking in the city is very expensive, most of the hotel charge 20-25 dollars a night for parking. The last time I was in San Francisco, I stayed in the Union Square area and we just rented a car one day to drive up the coast, there are loads of car rental places around downtown. May I also sugget a sidetrip to Sausalito or Muir Woods, either one can be made on the way to the Napa Valley.

Don't rent a car to come from SFO to the city! You will spend a lot to park it and then when you try to drive around, you will find no parking places at the attractions you want to visit. And, I would recommend visiting the San Francisco Chinatown rather than the one in Oakland--it's older and larger and the trip to Oakland is just not worth the time. You don't need to hoof it around SF on foot--we've plenty of public transportation for you. Suggest you go to www.sfgate.com and click on travel or sfvisitors.org. The drivers are not nuts on the freeways, there' just no place to park the cars! Welcome to San Francisco.

YES, driving in SF is like any other big city and can be very frustrating. I would sum it up this way: aggressive drivers, cars double-parked so you can't get around them in traffic, one way streets with "No left turn" or "No U-turn" signs for miles, trying to figure out where you belong versus where buses and trolleys belong, hectic, busy traffic jams and construction, expensive parking garages. I would recommend a good map and mapping out your destinations beforehand and not let it stop you. I can't imagine NOT having a car with the other places you plan to visit, not to mention getting yoursefl from the airport to yoru hotel. Traffic aside, enjoy the city!

People say its just like driving in any other city but it took us 1 hour and 30 minutes to drive to san francisco from Oakland Airport last year and it was just a 10 mile trip-thats hideous and most cities dont have that. I would take the subway instead-its relatively clean and efficient. <BR> <BR>I disagee with the post about Oakland not being worth the time-what struck me about Chinatown in Oakland as opposed to San Francisco is the fact that Chinatown in Oakland seemed more authentic and its actually the 4th largest chinatown in the US, so its not small,but compared to san francisco's it probably is. SF Chinatown is great but too touristy. I also think that you'd love Yoshi's, this sushi bar/jazz club on the waterfront area, it is great. Plus theres the hillside districts with their funky shops and homes-i guess since ive been to SF so many times, it wasnt until I planned outside the box that Oakland came into view. <BR> <BR>In anycase, I could never actually leave manhattan but Oakland surprised the hell out of me!

As a San Franciscan, I can tell you that you don't need a car. Within the city, public transportation is your best bet. Parking can be difficult and expensive. <BR> <BR>Take the Super Shuttle or another airport shuttle bus from/to the airport. <BR> <BR>The BART train goes to Oakland so you won't need a car to get there, either. <BR> <BR>In terms of Napa, you can take the "Wine Train" but a car wouldn't be all that bad. There are several rental agencies in the city that would allow you to rent a car for the day. <BR> <BR>Trust me, you don't need the car.

The Wine Train doesn't allow people to get on and off to visit wineries. It's basically a rolling meal over some pretty boring scenery. I'm glad New Yorker liked Oakland, but I'll stick with my opinion that SF Chinatown is more convenient and bigger. If you really want to explore the hidden places that many tourists don't see, you can go on a Wok Wiz walking tour with one of the ladies who grew up in Chinatown. The tour ends with a dim sum lunch, visits a temple and grocery store as well as an artist studio. Very nice and no pressure to buy anything. Shirley Fong-Torres who is the owner went to Cal and has a wealth of information about Chinese culture in all of the Bay area. She has a website.

Interesting Discussion brewing. <BR>New Yorker, I expected less out of Oakland also and was blown away with the stuff that place has to offer. Its mere location so close to San Francisco is a plus in and of itself. I think San Francisco has a more historic chinatown, heck, everyones heard of Chinatown in San Francisco! I suggest to kenneth that if you do go to Oakland as a sidetrip that you indulge your wife at the Claremont Resort spa-it is divine and the setting is superb. Another must-do in that area is this fabulous restaurant called Chez Panisse in Berkeley-excellent california cuisine. I also agree that Yoshi's is a good jazz club( if thats what ur into-the sushiz great too) <BR> <BR>San Francisco is not a drivers paradise but coming from the midwest, youd probably feel homeless without wheels so I suggest driving. It is however a shoppers paradise-check out the haight ashbury district. Your sure to find clothes unavailable back in Missouri. Union Square is good if your into regular italian and NY designers like Gucci, DKNY, etc. AND IN NAPA, THERES A DEAN & DELUCA( bless their hearts). Either way, pack a sweater cause it gets chilly-but really nice( both in San Francisco and Oakland)

The downtown streets of Kansas City during workdays are not much different than SF's in terms of one-ways, construction, narrow streets and congestion. <BR>The main difference is that the interstate traffic in the Bay Area is so much heavier and bridge constrictions exacerbate things. <BR>The above advice is basically my advice. For the downtown visitor, no need for a car. Parking at hotels now tops out at $38 per day. <BR>For touring (Napa, Muir, coast, etc) a car is the only way to go. Easy driving once beyond the metro. <BR>You won't be in Kansas any more, Toto, but it's not that big a deal. (And yes, Boston is much worse).

San Francisco traffic is bad. I live in KC and recently went to San Fran. for a convention and compared to SF, traffic in KC is non-existent. They drive rudely and tailgate at 80MPH, even when traffic is bumper to bumper. Some roads are busy all day and into the late night. As a native of Boston, I just want to respond to the guy that said that Boston is worse-in my experience-San Fran. is worse. I think Boston is bad because of the big-dig construction. San Fran. needs the lord to fix their traffic problems-we sat in a 20-mile long line of cars on the 880 fy going to San Jose from Oakland-gimme a break.

That's why people in LA and SF with high end cars have DVD PLAYERS installed in the dash!!! <BR>So much wasted time and so much stalled traffic, it's a way to pass the time.

All those fancy cars on the freeway and they still drive like idiots in bay area. when i was in the bay for meetings, the speeders were all big expensive SUVs and bmws and lexuses and benze, never seen so many foreign makes in one place like that-its unamerican. If I had a car like that I'd drive slow so not to crash into another rich person-but hell, most of them didnt really earn those nice cars, just got it when their little companies got funded. looked like every teenager in bay drives a bimmer-thatll teach em the value of money. Im happy in Dallas thank you very much-at least we teach our kids.

Having a bad day, Daniel? <BR>Everyone who drives an expensive car got it as a handout from someone else, and is a less than worthwhile human being, who also lacks child-rearing skills?(!) <BR>*chuckle* <BR>And I was just beginning to believe that 12 years of post-high school education was actually worthwhile so that I could feel good about having a solid job which allows me the financial freedom to own a nice car. <BR>Now I find I don't deserve it after all! Drats! <BR>(Wonder if they'll let me return it, while I sign up for some remedial lessons on child rearing). <BR>

I once took a driver's license test in SF and felt the testers were the easiest I'd ever encountered, and while it seems sometimes that SF drivers treat signals as suggestions, I don't think driving in SF is especially hard. <BR> <BR>It's parking that's impossible. <BR> <BR>800,000 people competing for YOUR space.

I lived in SF for years and visited last week. I borrowed a friend's car. Driving is no problem if you know where you're going. Parking during the day isn't a problem either (though it helped that I remembered some lesser-used side streets), except at night if you're staying downtown. Then you have to pay those exorbitant rates mentioned above. <BR><BR>Triple-O<BR><BR>

The only way the Lord could solve SF traffic would be to fill in the Bay. I think Seattle has much the same water problem. Daniel, I earned my BMW. You've earned your medication.

So it's un-American to own a foreign car, because we're supposed to show our patriotism by buying an unreliable Ford or GM car? Did you know that Ford has fallen to the bottom in quality ratings? Dead last, having ousted GM from that position, which it held for years. <BR> <BR>Buy what you want, Daniel. And while you're standing by the side of the road with your broken Ford, I'll whizz past in my Toyota, but I'll be nice enough to call a tow truck for you.

All that sass is also a sign of bad parenting as well. You people think youre so smart in your fancy german cars. I think you all need a good licking. Thatll teach you to be unamerican-hell, why you all move to germany since you buy their cars. San Francisco is a bad place to visit and raise kids. Theyll be exposed to liberal thinking and artsy fartsy stuff. I recommend that Kenneth not go to that yuppie cesspool at all. Come to Dallas instead, that way youll avoif possible earthquakes! The rest of you can go to hell.

Yes, Daniel, and you should move to Detroit since you love their cars so much. And what's this about needing a good lickin'? You keep your tongue away from me, pal. <BR> <BR>Boy, I heard they had great education reform down in Texas, but I guess I heard wrong.

If you are staying in town, there is no need for a car. Pick one up the day you drive up to Napa. Cabs are pletiful and relatively inexpensive. Whatever you do, you will have a great time.

Chez Panisse is in Berkeley. The two favorites in Oakland are Bay Wolf and Oliveto. For those of you really interested in visiting Oakland check the Dockside Boat and Bed where you can stay on a beautiful boat. Some can actually be chartered for a trip before bedtime. www.boatandbed.com Nearby is the SS Potomas, FKR's old yacht that takes cruises from Jack London Square or you can take a gondola ride in Lake Merritt. Oakland has a lot to offer, but most hearts are left in San Francisco!

Daniel, <BR>once u get to hell, there will be no more room forthe rest of us. By the way, Im happy with my Lexus,thanks anyway. <BR> <BR>Anyway, <BR>I dont think Oaklanders really care if we leave our hearts there or not. I live in Walnut Creek and have for 14 years. I have seen Oakland gussy itself up a lot. The downtown is more exciting now than when I first moved here and my husband and I are thinking of moving to Oakland, somewhere in the hills would be nice. Anyway, driving in the city is a headache waiting to happen. I suggest BART or Muni. Napa however might require a car.

Dont mess with Texas! <BR> <BR>All those bmw-driving commies in the gay bay can stay there and rot! The rest of us real americans should steer clear of the evils of San Francisco. For the sake of your children and wholesome values.

Thanks to allof you for your responses.Youve all been very helpful and have even gotten us more excited about our trip to San Francisco. <BR> <BR>Daniel, <BR>Hatred and Ignorance go hand in hand. I think you need to accept people for who they are and not what you want them to be! The Lord said for us to Love one another, not hate one another.

I wrote a joke a long tme ago when I first moved to the Bay Area, and had to drive around S.F. "In San Franciso, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." <BR> <BR>The joke is actually a bit tangential, and is based on the fact I quickly discovered, that the best way to make a left turn in the city was to make three right turns. Pass by the street you want to make a left onto and turn right at the next street, going back around the block, to your street of interest. <BR> <BR>Although no one is quite ready to believe that I made this joke up, over the years I have heard it occasionally repeated. I knew I had started something, however, when a I heard it repeated a few years back by a radio station in the Seattle area. <BR>

The funny thing about your joke is that its true! 3 lefts make a right in San Francisco-what a trip-I never thought about it. Im probably gonna test out your theory when I drive home after work from the financial district onto the bay bridge-Thanks

Daniel your fisrt (troll) post was borderline acceptable. <BR>But you lost it with the subsequent posts. <BR>Ya gotta have the discipline to hold the line and string people along better, buddy! <BR>When you let loose and expose your troll intentions it cancels out all the points you get for a good, covert beginning. <BR>You blew it. <BR>Amateur stuff. <BR>Try again soon, OK?

Kenneth, I think you've had enough advice about driving in SF to make up your mind, but my two cents is: take a shuttle into SF from SFO, rent a car for the wine country, and take BART--a very quick and easy hop--to Oakland. <BR> <BR>As for the Oakland issue, my advice is: ignore Kam. She and I agree on many things regarding visiting the Bay Area, but I have never seen her say anything except "forget Oakland, it's not worth your time." Well I grew up in Oakland and return and spend time there very frequently, and the point is that Oakland is different than SF and you'll get a different experience there. Oakland Chinatown certainly has a different flavor, and is not at all touristy. There's a wonderful farmers' market--with lots more than produce--at Jack London Square and in Chinatown on Sundays. Obviously you do not need to stay at some cutesy B&B to enjoy exploring this or some parts of Oakland. There are plenty of terrific restaurants in Oakland in Berkeley other than the few mentioned (though they are all very good), and they tend to be more casual and a bit less pricey than ones of equivalent quality in SF. BTW, the Claremont Resort and Spa mentioned above is on the Oakland/Berkeley border in the hills and is nowhere near Chinatown (for which you'd use the 12th St/City Center BART station). None of the restaurants mentioned above (Chez Panisse, Oliveto, Bay Wolf) are near Chinatown either. My point here is that you have to take some of these posts with a grain of salt, because the posters are repeating the conventional wisdom/guidebook lines. There are lots of exciting new restaurants, etc., including in downtown Oakland--whis *is* near Chinatown--but those who passed through once or who advocate avoiding Oakland don't know anything but the same old, same old. <BR> <BR>P.S. If Kam tells you that Shadowbrook is "considered the best in the area" when you ask about ypscale Santa Cruz restaurants, ignore her on that count, too!

there is another post on here about the same topic. <BR> <BR>Anyhow, we went to SF and rented a car (we went down to carmel for 2 days). I am not sure I would rent one if I were staying in the city. You will likely use cabs a lot, though. <BR> <BR>We found the drivers in SF to be almost "too nice," maybe that's because i come from Boston where only the pedestrians are more obnoxious than the drivers. In SF, everyone stops at the stop signs and there is this unspoken drivers' code of civility at intersections. On the highways, drivers in California are the same everywhere; no better, no worse.

Oooh, that Caitlan is a nasty one, isn't she? Her opinion differs from Kam, and it is not enough to just make her case. No, she has to tell you to dismiss Kam's advice, offering up the high insult that Kam's advice is from guidebooks, and all in the most condescending tone possible. <BR> <BR>Well, I, for one, have never been impressed with Oakland, so I vote with Kam. Caitlan, learn to conduct yourself with more respect for others, will ya?

Just wanted to drop a few lines on this topic. Ive been in Oakland for 6 months and at first it was because I couldnt afford SF, I could barely afford Oakland for that matter. But after 6 months of Piedmont Avenue and College Avenue, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else. San Franciscans are kinda small-minded when it comes to the rest of the bay. they dont get out a lot and see what else their immediate neighbors have to offer, for fear of being viewed as a traitor to their city on the golden hill, or something really stupid like that- except Napa, which for a 23 year old like myself is a fun as a trip to church. I agree though with the reply that said that Oaklanders dont care if we leave our hearts there or not-That is so true, people here dont give a rats behind( thats my texas-roots talkin)what anyonew thinks-Especially San Franciscans, because everyone knows their dillusional( just look at their Board of Supervisors)-People in the city would probably cry if you didnt join their bandwagon.LOL

San Francisco is a gorgeous place. I didnt have trouble driving on the highways. My problem was traffic being to heavy too often. I think renting a car is better than just relying on the bus, although public transit I hear is quite good. When you go, please take in as much local cuisine as you can, the restaurants in san francisco are just stellar- easily on par with new york. I loved this restaurant called Boulevard-just heaven. <BR> <BR>As far as Oakland goes, Youll have fun exploring that town also. Its very close to downtown san fran. There are several excellent restaurants in Oakland as well. I guess im just partial to food( after all I was on a restaurant tour). I dont think Oakland is known for food but theres a place called Everett & Jones that is a southern style BBQ near the waterfront that is just great. <BR> <BR>All this talk of food is making me hungry. Little Italy beckons-ciao. <BR>

OakWhat, you've got me and everything else all wrong. I do not suffer from a lack of respect for Kam at all. She gives a lot of terrific advice, most of which I agree wholeheartedly with. She and I both post answers to many of the same threads, as we both know the Bay Area. But she knows lots about many places that I don't, and I don't offer advice on this forum about places I don't know well. Occasionally, Kam has urged people to avoid Oakland, and she has also advised that there are no really nice restaurants in the Santa Cruz area with excellent food. This advice leads me to believe that she doesn't know those areas so well, and I dislike seeing her give misleading advice to those who ask about specific places. I've lived in both Oakland and Santa Cruz. I know that there are charming neighborhoods, nice shops, and excellent restaurants, and a very good museum in Oakland, and that there are some wonderful, upscale restaurants in Santa Cruz. I wouldn't get on this forum and advise people to go out of their way to either place, but when they ask specific questions, I'd prefer for them to get the whole story rather than discouragement from someone who is clearly not as familiar with the area in question and thus does it, and the poster asking, a diservice. It's happened enough times that it bugs me. But if you think that Kam and I are somehow is opposition or unappreciative of one another's contributions here and knowledge in general, you have not read many of the norther California travel queries on this forum.