toedtoes

I agree with RHRD to hold off on cc'ing everyone else.

The OP has already mentioned posting this on a public travel forum, so why push it? If you complain to too many people, the owner may just figure that you can't be satisfied at all and won't bother trying.

And, remember, the owner probably has no knowledge of what happened, so why start threatening (which is what I see cc'ing tv, paper, and BBB as) before (s)he has a chance to resolve it privately.

gluvscats

Very unprofessional for the bar mgr. to complain about the tip and yell. He should be lucky he got anything. Too bad he was upset!! Did you talk to the manager of the resturant before you left? Did you get the bar mgr's name? If not, write a letter to the owner of the resturant and explan what happened. Say you are not happy and tell him/her you want a refund or free dinner. I have done that and got a gift card for 2 meals. No one deserves to be treated like this. If it werent for customers, the bar mgr and workers would not have job. What is the name of the place and where is it located?

pjsparlor

Josef of Barbado's Restaurant
6880 Springcreek Rd
Rockford, Il. 61107
815 282 3400

exiledprincess

pjsparlor, I'm just going to mention something for which I might be flamed but I think it is important to consider...

What time does this restaurant close? From what I see online, they close the restaurant at 10:30 p.m. and the bar at 11:00 p.m. on Saturdays. Your party arrived at 10:25 p.m. Is that correct?

And if so, did they remain open past those times for your party?

NeoPatrick

I have to agree that if when being seated I was told the kitchen was closing, but I insisted on ordering anyway, I sure wouldn't expect great service. In fact, if told the kitchen was closing I would take the hint and go elsewhere. And since they were closing anyway, why on earth would you expect them to come and ask if you wanted more drinks?

Thanks for clarifying your original post. The circumstances are much clearer now.

happytrailstoyou

When I get service that I know is far below the expectations of management, I don't tip, I report my experience to management, and I invariably receive a gift certificate for an amount equal too or greater than the amount of my meal.

I have found that it is a waste of time to report deficient service at restaurants where management doesn't have good service as one of its objectives.

Tipping for service that wasn't rendered is as harebrained as paying for goods that weren't delivered.

pjsparlor

The restaurant closes at 10:30, the bar stays open to 12:30AM. My friend that was in our party did call the restaurant and talked to Josef today. He was very apologetic and shocked. He left his restaurant 10:30PM that night so he was gone by the time we were getting flamed by his bar manager.
He said that the bar menu is open to 11:00 including hot items too. So he was surprised that all we were offered was the cold from the bar menu.
Anyway we were gone by 11:45PM leaving a very full bar. So I don't know about the time posted in the website. I live in Rockford and it is a popular night spot that I have enjoyed with friends late into the night. I love the support of this community but it is always interesting how things can get turned around. I can assure you we know proper ettiquete and would not be the only people in a dining establishment expecting different rules for us.

pjsparlor

The Bar opens at 4 pm / Mon-Sat (bar menu available from 4 P.M. - 11 P.M.)

That is from Josef's website that I have never looked at before. So exiled princess and neo patrick, where do you see a problem ordering food at 10:25 on Sat. in the bar. My first post states clearly we were in the bar. Just had to clarify this.

NeoPatrick

". . . neo patrick, where do you see a problem ordering food at 10:25 on Sat. in the bar"?

From your own post, that's where.

You said in your letter:
"We were a party of five and we came to your establishment to have some cocktails and a light meal. We arrived at 10:25 PM and were promptly told that the kitchen was closing, and that only cold items on the bar menu would be served."

It seems pretty clear to me they were telling you then that you weren't really welcome to sit and order food. Frankly I would have taken the hint. You clearly didn't. Whatever their normal time and policy is, they were clearly telling you that there WAS a problem ordering food in the bar at that time. Maybe you've since found out that that shouldn't have been the policy there, but I can't imagine why you were surprised by a lack of good service, when essentially you weren't welcomed to sit down and order to begin with.

lynnejoel1015

I would be embarrassed if the bar manager scolded my group, too!

I say a tip should be a scale, based on quality of service and I think you did the right thing.

As someone who worked her butt off waitressing to pay my college tuition & living expenses, I worked darn hard for good tips, so why should a server who didn't work as earnestly earn the same?

I'm with you on this one!

Cali

I think the people who were working decided they were going to close the food early since the boss wasn't there and now he knows since your friend talked to him. It is amazing what employees will do when the boss is away - you were not wrong to expect more than you got. My brother says they let people order right up to closing and know they will take some time to eat their food. That's just the nature of the business. He did say he cuts off drinks about 10 min before closing so they are in compliance with the law but this doesn't seem to be a problem with your group. You deserve a free meal.

LVAMY

I have been a bartender and server for 25 years, and I definitely think people should tip on the service. There are too many people in the service industry how DO NOT BELONG THERE!!!!When servers with poor attitudes and skills receive good tips regardless of service, why improve. If they were tipped what they deserved maybe they would look for another profession. I realize that sometimes a server has a bad day, or can be suddenly overwhelmed with lots of customers, and I look differently on someone working hard and doing the best they can than someone who doesn't really care about the establishment or the customers. I tip according to the service I receive and I expect to be tipped based on my service. I know people from certain places don't tip and some will never tip more than 10%, but I give the best service I can to everyone, and at the end of the week it always is in my favor, and I love what I do. I work in an upscale resort in Las Vegas and am the bar manager at where I work and the bar manager you are describing needs a new line of work, your story is appalling and embarrassing to the industry. I hope the restaurant can make up for his actions to you. No one wants to lose a customer, we know there are too many choices for you to take your business.

mark99

I will gleefully tip 0% if the service is very bad. I'm not talking about an honest mistake, or a problem out of their control, but a disrespectful or consistently poor service through the meal.

Conversely, I will tio 15 - 20% for good service, and for places I frequent and receive the extra special treatment I will tip as much as 40% - 50% from time to time as thanks for the extra special treatment.

But bad service = 0% PERIOD

pjsparlor

Neo hindsight is definitlely 20/20

I talked to my friend about exactly what you are saying. We should have just left in the beginning. With a party of five and choices of food establishments in Rockford serving past even 10:00PM is meager, Josef's became our bar of choice.
Like I said we went there often so we enjoyed it in the past.
It was the bar manager that was the shocker and that is why I posted this. Thanks again for all the feedback, you guys are great!
Anyone else been to Josefs here in Rockford or Barbado's?

GeorgeW

I'm too kind to waitresses and waiters yet once in a blue moon I will leave ten percent for very bad service (a restaurant at Garibaldi, Oregon if memory serves). If I'm at the beach for vacation, had a good time eating and drinking, and have been drinking all day at the surf, I often tip 25 percent and a little more.

NeoPatrick

Please don't think that my comments were suggesting that what they did was right. I was merely saying you probably shouldn't have been suprised by lousy service since they seemed not to want you there to begin with.

We had reservations for a 9 PM dinner in the West Village in New York on SuperBowl Sunday. Their website shows hours till 11 on Sunday. But we got a call at about 5:30 saying that there was a mistake and that they actually were closing at 9, so could we come a little earlier. When I said, no, because we were coming after a 7 to 8:45 show, they said we could come at 9 if we ordered right away. I took the hint. This was not going to be a good evening, so we went somewhere else. If we had gone, I surely wouldn't have been surprised if we had received lousy service. That's my point.

exiledprincess

pjsparlor, I just wanted to clarify the facts, since they weren't addressed in your initial post on this thread.

I'm assuming from your comments that your party ordered from the bar menu (which was available until 11:00 p.m.) and not the dinner menu (which was available only until 10:30 p.m.), is that correct? But there were only three items ordered for five people - does that mean that you shared plates? Or did your party order five appetizer plates, of three different menu items - one for each of the party?

I would also like to note that I usually don't expect a bread basket being brought out when I'm only ordering appetizers, and especially not when ordering from a bar menu.

And, for the record, I myself normally tip 20%. I, too, have lowered a tip for poor (or non-existent) service - but I do try to take the circumstances into account to be fair (i.e, was the server overwhelmed - "a very full bar").

kswl

I like Toedtoes edit of your letter, pj. If you're complaining about bad service, better to leave out the "no bread" comment that is not germane to the situation you're describing. JMO

pjsparlor

Hello Exiled princess, there were 5 in our party and 2 didn't order anything from the bar menu. So we ordered 3 items for 3 people. 3 plates were brought out for 3 people, nobody shared, nobody asked for extra plates. Just a late night out for some food and drinks in the bar.

The bread is mute point, I left it out of the letter. We just have had late night meals in the past with bread so the crackers were kind of new.
Believe it or not we did have lousy service, we are good tippers, I just thought the bar manager was so over the top for reprimanding us!

pjsparlor

Hello, the letter and this thread was sent today Feb. 13 to Josef's. Thank you all for all the feedback. PJ