DC or Baltimore for exNYC Single Female ?
 

I've spent time now exploring DC and Baltimore and just can't decide which is better for me at this time in my life.
Im nearly 31, never married and like both the Burbs and City life.
I spent several years in NYC and enjoyed it a lot.
I can't figure out which locale suits me most.
I like sophisticated pursuits, but also can be very down to earth.
Coffee shops, artsy hangouts, lounges, great shopping, yuppie pleasures (whole foods/strabucks, etc)
Like sense of community and don't like things too sterile. But not too shabby either. Shabby chic, upscale but relaxed.
I've owned a couple places but this time around I will only be renting.
I have a huge work project the next year (i can work anywhere on north east coast - im mobile) and want to rent and not worry about house stuff.
But I have pets and like having a little patio/overdoor space to boot.
Have 170k in savings and plan to spend 2700-3000 k on rent for next two years.
Which city would be best fit for me ?

Richmond, VA
Good Luck

silverfig, click on your name, you got tons of responses with your first post.

Yes I got lots of answers about DC area.
But now I am confused because I've added Baltimore to the mix.
I actually liked Georgetown the next of DC, but it very pricey to rent there (even with 3 k a month)
Hence I need info of Baltimore compared to DC.

Forget Baltimore if you really need yuppie pleasures and "great shopping", artsy hangouts, etc. I would think this is really obvious.

Until you get to the part about having multiple pets. LIke what kind and how many. There are many places you simply cannot rent with dogs, and others that limit the number definitely, and size. Lots of places won't even allow cats, but that's easier than dogs.

From what you say, if the pets issue isn't too bad, I'd say Capitol Hill might suit you. It's cheaper, more neighborhood-y, more sense of community, etc. I lived there and liked it a lot in those ways. YOu can find some older homes there with one floor for rent or old townhouses or something that would have a small patio area. I had one (really small) -- the first floor of a townhouse just two blocks from the Supreme Court.

That's just one idea, there are definitely other places. I would have thought you could even find something in Georgetown for that price (try Glover Park area).

Are you looking for a real big place or something? 3K a month isn't that hard, even in DC.

When I moved to DC, I found a townhouse with a back yard in Arlington that had lots of space, and the whole floor of a house on Capitol Hill that also had a yard. I used a realty agent in both places as I was moving from out of state and didn't have time to fool around. I found a place in one weekend and had several to choose from. I think I used Yarmouth Realty on Capitol Hill, not sure, but that have a lot of Hill listings. IN any case, it's your pets that are really going to limit you.

Actually, you got a lot of responses about Baltimore. Why are you reinventing this wheel?

I gotta say, if you're hoping to meet somebody don't go to either city. Dating in DC (personal experience) and in Baltimore (friend's experience) is totally abysmal for professional women in our 30s.

nicegirl, I understand what you say about Baltimore; it's a city that I've never been able to warm up to. But DC? Really? I thought it was among the top cities for singles. Could you explain a bit? Thanks.

How about Annapolis. I know this town was not one of your choices but it is only 25 minutes away from Baltimore and it has everything you are looking for. Annapolis has lots of bars, lounges, boutique shops and history. You should be able to rent something very nice there for that price.

I know some people say Annapollis is for families but it really is not. They have the Naval Academy in Annapolis and the bars come to life on the weekends with cadets. You would also be close to the water which is always a perk. They have a Wholefoods, Starbucks and many more trendy stores. They have a lot of choices for places to rent everything from new apartments to apartments in 100 year old restored buildings.

I am not a female - but I have lived in the DC area and live in the New York City area now. DC is very sophisticated and 'international', while Baltimore is blue collar, 'drinking' focused but fun.

If you have not lived in DC, do it now. It's fun. Without doubt, I recommend living in the NW sector of DC, In one of the prewar buildings on Connecticut Ave. (Cleveland Park, Woodley Park, Dupont, etc.) I lived in Woodley Park and loved it. I moved to Takoma Park, and was not so happy.

Do it now while you can - you won't have the opportunity later. You can always return to NY later.

I was a single guy in central Baltimore who moved from Montreal in his late 20s and early 30s in from 1999-2002. At first I hated Baltimore, because it seemed to me at first to be too quiet on evenings and weekends, which made it different from urban centers I was used to. But then I ended up being charmed by the place and after 3 years, ending up preferring Baltimore over Washington, D.C.

I’ll try address each of your tastes:

Enjoying NYC: I read you didn’t like Philly in your previous post. IMO both DC and Baltimore are LESS like NYC than Philly is like NYC. While Philly and NYC have a not insignificant portion of the population who don’t drive, very few in DC and Baltimore rely on public transit/bicycle/feet etc… Ethnic neighbourhoods that are more sizeable in Philly/NYC are practically nonexistent in DC and Baltimore. (Baltimore does not have a Chinatown and DC’s Chinatown makes Philly’s Chinatown seem big in comparison; Baltimore has a small Little Italy with a handful of restaurants, DC I ‘ve yet to hear of a Little Italy.) DC feels more spread out to me than NYC (and even Baltimore). Tends to be more no-man's-land between neighbourhoods in DC than in NYC. Using public transit requires much more being armed with schedules in Baltimore especially on weekends and don’t expect things to run on time.

Like the burbs: Burbs are burbs are burbs, if you live in the ‘burbs, doesn’t matter which one you pick.
Sophisticated pursuits: DC is more international, has an edge here.
Yuppie pleasures, upscale, shabby chic: Although there is a growing yuppie element in Baltimore, that’s not the overall vibe. DC has a much more mover-and-shakers, get-ahead, social climber type element, so yuppies are drawn toward in droves. DC is more upscale (although upscale does exist in Baltimore, just less predominant). Baltimoreans I think has more “shabby chic” but there’s probably an element of “unintentional” in many cases here.

Coffee shops/artsy hangouts/lounges: Both cities have this, although neither in the great numbers than you’d find in NYC. Artsy hangouts in DC feel more gentrified to me than in Baltimore.

Down-to-earth: Baltimore IMO overall is more down-to-earth and real.

Too sterile, but not too shabby: I find DC more sterile than Baltimore, lacks that sense of civic identity that Baltimore has. But Baltimore definitely has a more worn-around-the-edges possibly too-shabby-for-some vibe than DC.

Value for your $$$ (getting patio/overdoor space): Baltimore’s not as expensive.

This may have left you more confused than ever, but I must say, from reading all you write, it is a bit of a toss-up. (If you hadn’t said in the previous post that you didn’t like Philly I would have suggested Center City Phila. For you.)

Have fun DAN

Just my two cents-I would put Baltimore's best neighborhoods-Fell's Point and Federal Hill-up against any other East Coast neighborhoods. I would also agree with post regardig Baltimore not being comfortable at first and than becoming a vibrant place to be.

For a tourist I would put DC over Balt. but for living I would put Baltimore first.

I love the Fells Point area. They have some much within walking distance that you would hardly ever need a car on.

Irego wrote: nicegirl, I understand what you say about Baltimore; it's a city that I've never been able to warm up to. But DC? Really? I thought it was among the top cities for singles. Could you explain a bit? Thanks.



Don't get me wrong, I love DC. It's a great place to live with tons of independent restaurants, green space, museums, public transit, etc. etc. Everything you want in a city. If I didn't love it so much I would have left!

However, it is a census fact that there are more single women here than single men in the relevant dating age groups. It's less of a census fact but my experience as well as that of numerous friends that most of the men date much younger women, just because they can. Add in the fact that professional women in our 30s generally have equal income and professional attainment to men, which many men find unappealing, and there is just nobody to date.

The New York Times recently published an article about NYC, but I believe also applicable to DC, that did a scientific analysis of the numbers and concluded that single women have more education and higher incomes than single men, so if you want to share your life with someone who has the same educational level and income as you...well, there really *aren't* enough men to go around.

I've been here five years and have not had a real boyfriend in that time. I am of course not perfect, but I am fit and thin, reasonably attractive, financially stable and self-supporting, and (according to my friends) fun to be around. And I am a dime a dozen around here--there are hundreds and hundreds of women who fit that profile (I think I'm friends with most of them!). And anyway, why date a fabulous 33 year old if you can date a hot 23 year old?

Whenever I meet someone my age who is married I always ask them where they met their spouse. About 80% of the time the spouse is imported and they met outside DC. A friend of mine just married a man she met in DC a couple of weeks ago, so that's something!

At this point, I have been on more terrible first dates than I can count and for the time being I have just completely given up.

For men, however, dating around here is great and they don't usually hesitate to acknowledge that.

nicegirl...have I got the guy for you!

Nicegirl, I hear you and think Im slightly insane myself for moving to DC.
I've already had a dip into the DC dating pool and you hit the nail on the head.
Im a very young looking 30 yr old. Former model and pride myself on being independent.
Apparently for guys in DC I should lie about my age, pretend to have head full of taffy and act like a helpless chick.
But DC charmed me and Im just not ready to make amove corss country.
Want lots of interesting guys ? SoCal is actually a great spot.
3 of my over 30 friends from dc and nyc moved there and found great guys

LOL, Silverfig. If you can stomach doing that (I could pass for 27 but refuse to do so) you should be fine on the dating scene here. Unless "former model" means tall--the men here are very short and sensitive about it (Napoleonic complex anyone?). Luckily I'm only a little over 5 feet.

Iregeo--I admit I'm intrigued! You can reach me off list at t r e n a [underscore] b at hotmail dot com (taking out the spaces and replacing [underscore] with _); please put "Fodor's" in the subject line so I can spot it in my junk mail.

I'd pick DC over Baltimore. We have spent a lot of time in Baltimore the last four years, and just never clicked with that city. There are some fabulous high-end clubs and restaurants, though it feels like a city with "haves and have-nots", and not much middle ground. Just IMHO.
:)>-

nicegirl, I'll contact you shortly.

LOL, Silverfig. If you can stomach doing that (I could pass for 27 but refuse to do so) you should be fine on the dating scene here. Unless "former model" means tall--the men here are very short and sensitive about it (Napoleonic complex anyone?). Luckily I'm only a little over 5 feet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>.

Oh NiceGirl you are killing me here.
Every sterotype I've heard about DC is being confirmed by you.
I'm average height 5'5 but wear heels and am the offspring of a 6'6 dad so I like 'em tall.
No wonder the tall guys Im running into in DC are so haughty!
Groan.
Guess I'll have to import them.

I've lived in Los Angeles, and consider it one of the worst for single women, and don't find DC that bad at all, so it's all relative. It does depend what you are looking for, as LA is full of very superficial guys (and women, too, of course) who really judge people based on their appearance, all think they are screenwriters when they are waiters, and haven't read a book in years.

I had no trouble finding nice 30something guys to go out with in DC when I was in my mid-40s, so I don't think it's so bad. I never noticed them being shorter than average, either, but have no opinion on that one.

As a matter of fact, I have done work in demography as that was my minor concentration in grad school and would ask nicegirl to cite her references for the "Census fact" that there are more single women than men in DC in relevant age groups, because the US Census doesn't say so.

There are more single white men than white women in age groups 25-44, for example (assuming that is the target age we are talking about) in DC, and in the general DC-Baltimore metro area, also. It only becomes the case that there are more single women at the older age groups. I didn't compare the numbers of other races, as it could be different. There are not only more single never-married men than single never-married women ages 25-44, but also if you add in divorced men and women, that doesn't change it. It is true within every 5-year age group, also (ie, 25-29, 30-34, etc.). There are about 20 pct more men than women.

Now if you say a guy in the 30-34 category has everyone from ages 25-34 as a potential dating pool, but women age 30-34 have guys age 30-44, the women still have a greater ratio of potential dates.

I don't know about comparing education or income, but given those numbers are limited to DC proper, I don't think they would be that disparate for men versus women. I have read that this is true for black women versus men in DC, and if you are talking about that demographic category, I might agree.

If you are really having trouble finding men who think you should have a head full of taffy, perhaps it is the places you go or the people you are attracted to, or whom might be impressed by someone who needs to refer to themselves as a former model (which doesn't prove anything or even mean much).

If you are really having trouble finding men who think you should have a head full of taffy, perhaps it is the places you go or the people you are attracted to, or whom might be impressed by someone who needs to refer to themselves as a former model (which doesn't prove anything or even mean much).>>>>>>

Christina,
I'm posting anonymously on fodors. Why does that make you think I prance around announcing to strange potential suitors that I used to model ?
LOL.
And it means something for illustrative purposes.
Your post made me chuckle because you offered nothing but thinly veiled snarky remarks.
And if you take issue with DC having more single women than men, go argue with National Geographic.
They published a wildly circulated story on this finding.
http://creativeclass.typepad.com/the...ngles_map.html