TxTravelPro, back in the 80s, I used to board my barrel horse at the barn run by the couple that founded LSHSRA. :-)

Xbt, I hope you don't like to eat and wear clothes, because those materials were provided for you by a farmer. I have the utmost respect for people who work the land and provide food and raw materials so that I may live comfortably.

I never said that "there is nothing of interest in downtown Dallas." On the contrary, the Dallas World Aquarium and the Sixth Floor are two of my favorite places to take visitors!

BTW, no plans that I have seen link Grapevine to DART anytime in the forseeable future...

Christie, I was thinking of the DART station planned for the top of DFW airport. It will effectively serve Grapevine.

Also, the Cotton Belt line will be converted to a commuter rail line, like the existing TRE. That will serve Grapevine and East Tarrant county.

Do you realize that Texas used to have enormous herds of velcros? Yes, they proved very useful with clothing, with the male and female velcros sticking together. Unfortunately, with the warmer, more humid weather in Texas, they would stick together more often during mating season, and this caused the species to rapidly diminish. Fortunately, we still grow them in enormous feedlots (with the sexes segregated, of course).

Next week, I'll talk about the native polyesters that covered the state in prehistoric times... free-ranging until the white men arrived and wiped them out...

By now OP is back home, but I'll jump into this p*ssing contest anyway - SA offer genuine history and a family- and tourist-friendly, service-oriented ambience. Dallas offers the same cookie cutter stores that you can find in any other city along with horrible traffic, seasoned with a heavy dose of pretentiousness as a reponse to a well founded sense of being second tier. Neither place is exactly ideal for strolling with a 9 month old (if anywhere is!)

<i>As Boswell, said, &quot;If you're tired (bored with) London, you're tired of life.&quot;. And Dallas is much more of a city now than London in Boswell's day.</i>
Well, that was almost 250yrs ago so it would seem to be a pretty backhanded compliment !
Knowing both, both have their place but Dallas is not London, and vice versa.

Seamus, whatever San Antonio's ambience may be...

Dallas, with a metro population of 6 million people, offers shops that a metro with, say, a million and half people, could never possibly sustain. San Antonio does not have an REI outdoor shop, nor does it have an Urban Outfitters outlet, and if you want to go to a Hermes outlet, forget San Antonio. Same with Lalique glass... Dallas is the only place to get it in the 5 state region. If you want Ikea, forget San Antonio, look in Dallas (soon) or Houston.

The Half Price used bookstore in Dallas is the largest book shop in Texas.

Not just big stores... the Soda Pop shop in the Bishop Arts District is unique... more brands of soft drinks than you could imagine.

Restaurants? Specialized eateries go to Dallas from New York, not to SA. Il Molino opened a branch here, as did Grand Luxe in the Galleria, and Nobu is on the way. Yes, Dallas is second tier compared to New York or Paris or London, but SA isn't eveb on the map.

You're wrong about strolling. Dallas' McKinney Avenue is a great pedestrian oriented boulevard, perfect for a 9 month old, especially if you are giving him a ride on the McKinneyt Avenue trolley.

Traffic? The larger the city, the more places worth going to, the more traffic and people there are that want to get there. SA has few places to journey to out of the Riverwalk area, in comparison to the many places you can go in metro Dallas.

There are good reasons why metro Dallas has been able to accumulate a population of almost 6 million people, whereas San Antonio, with its slow growth, can barely hang on to a million and a half. People choose a city to migrate to for many specific reasons, but each personal reason is a variation of the same need... people feel they'd be better off living in metro Dallas instead of metro San Antonio, in spite of its Disneyesque Riverwalk.

xbt your love for Dallas is admirable - but surely people have different tastes. Dallas and SA both have their charms - why does one have to be better than the other?

As for ranches and rodeos, it is a part of the history of the state - it is fascinating. If I were an out of towner - that would be more fascinating to me than one more store - who cares if it is
not in 5 other states. But to some else that store maybe the reason for visiting Dallas. Vive la difference

Indie, good questions. Why does Dallas have to be better than San Antonio? I don't suppose it HAS TO BE better, but apparently it is, in the opinion of the public. Dallas outvotes SA, 6 million to 1.5 million.

Is Dallas a better city than San Antonio? Well, is New York better than Buffalo? Is San Francisco better than Sacramento or Bakersfield? Is Paris better than Lyon? Is London better than Manchester?

Many people would say yes, I'd also say yes, to all those questions.

Is the Riverwalk a better tourist attraction than the West End in Dallas? Maybe, maybe not. Is Dallas better at doing what a city does - assembling critical masses of people to support specialized human activity? Absolutely yes.

I've been watching this &quot;debate&quot; go back and forth for a while - and can't believe it's still going on.

xbt - you obviously love Dallas - everyone gets that. I just don't understand beating this horse to death.

I've lived in both San Antonio and Dallas - and personally, I liked San Antonio better. But that's just my opinion. You know what they say about opinions.

Doesn't mean San Antonio is &quot;better&quot; than Dallas. The two cities are completely different.

I say just give this a rest already.

Chepar, you're one of the 1.5 million that votes for San Antonio.

Tell you what... I'll give you an &quot;official&quot; pass to stop reading this thread if you want... we'll miss you, though.

As for me... I think the subject is fascinating, and thought provoking... an objective and reasoned comparison of Dallas and San Antonio.

xbt - who made you the hall monitor to hand passes out?

I find that you consider your comparisons objective and reasoned amusing. I guess it's objective and reasoned if it favors Dallas.

Shut up already. People go to Dallas because of employment not to go shopping. After they are there awhile they begin to believe they &amp; their city is better then others. The kicker is when they go on vacation they go to places like San Antonio for the history, ambiance, &amp; to relax away from the pretentious people that inhabit Dallas.

Chepar, Shea, I guess you two still want to grumble and grouse.

I won't address the substance of your gripes... because I don't see the substance of your gripes.

If someone wants to hear some reasons to visit Dallas, in preference to San Antonio, I'll be ready and willing to accomodate them. I think Dallas is the better city in most, albeit not all, categories of leisure travel, and I have a lot of objective factual information to back up my claims.

What I have to say may or may not perk up San Antonio's civic ego, but it will definitely assist the traveling public in having a good time.

xbt - I didn't start out with the intent to grumble - only to point out that your impassioned and single-minded defense of Dallas hardly seems objective, despite what you say to the contrary.

It's your opinion. That's it. SA and Dallas are both great cities, but very different. Your saying Dallas is &quot;better&quot; is not objective, because that's your OPINION. Facts may be objectively compared, but interpreting the facts one way or the other is completely subjective.

Don't feel you have to reply ad nauseum to everyone who thinks differently. You love Dallas and feel it's better than SA. I (and everyone else) gets it.

Chepar,

I said: &quot;I think Dallas is the better city in most, albeit not all, categories of leisure travel, and I have a lot of objective factual information to back up my claims.&quot;.

I think we bot agree on the difference between opinopn and measurable, objective, factual information.

OK, Chepar, I think I see your next point coming. You might say that no matter what the objective points of evidence are, it's possible to interpret them either to the benefit of one city or another.

In that case, we'll let the audience decide.

Another note from Northwood Hills (Dallas):
I pay nearly everything on line or via CC or d/e/w from my humble checking account.
For the first time, Dallas (City, County - I'm in the RISD) offered online payment of my property taxes - unfortunately, they wanted a $55.00 &quot;convenience fee&quot; - I think NOT - I'll use one of my ancient $0.37 snail mail stamps.
M

Dallas or San Antonio?
Neither, if these are the people I would meet there.

Anita, that remark was uncalled for...

We all may have legitimate differences of opinion among ourselves, but I, for one, want to respect the people I discuss or debate with, even if I don't agree with them.

I see nothing wrong with debate... I think it's healthy. And the subject of this thread is, in fact, the relative merits of San Antonio versus Dallas.

If I, personally, have treated any of you with less than respect... I apologize. I want to convince you with my arguments, not antagonize you.

Anita, I think you should be civil, as called for in the Fodor's rules of discussion. And being derogatory about &quot;the people I would meet there&quot; is not civil.

&quot;Why does Dallas have to be better than San Antonio? I don't suppose it HAS TO BE better, but apparently it is, in the opinion of the public. Dallas outvotes SA, 6 million to 1.5 million.&quot;

Is Mexico City better than Dallas? Sao Paolo better than Dallas? Calcutta better than Dallas? Hong Kong better than Dallas? Lagos, Nigeria better than Dallas? By your theory, they outvote, so clearly they are! Bigger is better! Yeeee-ha! OR maybe they're apples and oranges. But then again, maybe Dallas and SA are apples and oranges too, could it be so?

MY 2 cents.

&quot;By your theory, they outvote, so clearly they are!&quot;

Your fallacy, DanielWilliams... Brazilians and Nigerians and Americans don't vote in the same elections, now do they?

So there's no such thing as an election that pits Lagos against Dallas.

There are, however, elections that pit Dallas against San Antonio.

If we did have a truly international election, that is, people anywhere in the world were able to move anywhere else in the world, politically and financially, places like Lagos would diminish and places like Dallas would gain... on the theory that Dallas is a better choice than Lagos.