Creation Museum Petersburg KY
Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:40 AM
#42
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Please do continue to entertain me some more me with your oh so tolerant (not) educated (not) insightful (not) comments.
ps I'm a he not a she and I'm still waiting to see one Gazelle in the herd to have evolved lion proof skin and I'm still waiting to see the evolving monkey thing somewhere between human and monkey. Come to think of it I’m still waiting to see anything in any herd, flock or group “evolve” into something different. Nice quasi-science religion, that evolution is, but I don’t see it happening anywhere. I’ve been around the world 3 times and never seen it anywhere so please do provide the evidence. You might convert me.
You anti-religion this and intolerant of religious that blah blah blah commentators should actually “travel” to the Creation Museum because "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
- Innocents Abroad, Mark Twain
ps I'm a he not a she and I'm still waiting to see one Gazelle in the herd to have evolved lion proof skin and I'm still waiting to see the evolving monkey thing somewhere between human and monkey. Come to think of it I’m still waiting to see anything in any herd, flock or group “evolve” into something different. Nice quasi-science religion, that evolution is, but I don’t see it happening anywhere. I’ve been around the world 3 times and never seen it anywhere so please do provide the evidence. You might convert me.
You anti-religion this and intolerant of religious that blah blah blah commentators should actually “travel” to the Creation Museum because "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
- Innocents Abroad, Mark Twain
Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:43 AM
#43
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hop along, I think you missed the point of libuse's post. Did you think he was sterotyping Americans with the comments about lack of eduction, etc? His analysis of the British image of the creationists being the uneducated, pretty much coincides with most American ideas of the creationists as well. Don't most Americans picture creationists as being the less education and particularly "backwoods" or "rural southern" "stereotypes"?
Sep 2nd, 2007, 07:02 AM
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<<I'm still waiting to see one Gazelle in the herd to have evolved lion proof skin and I'm still waiting to see the evolving monkey thing somewhere between human and monkey. Come to think of it I’m still waiting to see anything in any herd, flock or group “evolve” into something different...
You anti-religion this and intolerant of religious that blah blah blah commentators should actually “travel” to the Creation Museum because "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
- Innocents Abroad, Mark Twain>>
I will never convert you and you will never convert me, but that doesn't mean we can't exchange ideas on the topic in dispute.
Gazelles already have their evolved defense mechanism -- they travel in herds (increases the number of survivors and passing on of genes after an attack), and their speed. Just because a gazelle hasn't evolved in the way you think they should (development of armadillo skin), does not mean they have no evolved. The fact that gazelles thrive and reproduce despite lion attacks tells me they've evolved to meet the challenge quite nicely.
By making "anti-God" generalizations about people who disagree with you, I think you could take away something from the Twain quote as much as you claim others could.
You anti-religion this and intolerant of religious that blah blah blah commentators should actually “travel” to the Creation Museum because "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
- Innocents Abroad, Mark Twain>>
I will never convert you and you will never convert me, but that doesn't mean we can't exchange ideas on the topic in dispute.
Gazelles already have their evolved defense mechanism -- they travel in herds (increases the number of survivors and passing on of genes after an attack), and their speed. Just because a gazelle hasn't evolved in the way you think they should (development of armadillo skin), does not mean they have no evolved. The fact that gazelles thrive and reproduce despite lion attacks tells me they've evolved to meet the challenge quite nicely.
By making "anti-God" generalizations about people who disagree with you, I think you could take away something from the Twain quote as much as you claim others could.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 07:18 AM
#45
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Huh? I have yet to see an "anti-God" statement here.
But what I think is sad is that people who have a specific idea of it all, seem to think that believing in evolution has anything in the world to do with NOT believing in God. I suggest you learn what evolutionists believe, Liam, before you suggest that anyone who believes documented science is somehow ANTI-GOD!! Nothing could be further from the truth.
But what I think is sad is that people who have a specific idea of it all, seem to think that believing in evolution has anything in the world to do with NOT believing in God. I suggest you learn what evolutionists believe, Liam, before you suggest that anyone who believes documented science is somehow ANTI-GOD!! Nothing could be further from the truth.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:17 AM
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Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:06 AM
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<<Huh? I have yet to see an "anti-God" statement here.
But what I think is sad is that people who have a specific idea of it all, seem to think that believing in evolution has anything in the world to do with NOT believing in God. I suggest you learn what evolutionists believe, Liam, before you suggest that anyone who believes documented science is somehow ANTI-GOD!! Nothing could be further from the truth. >>
NeoPatrick, I think you're reading something into my post that's not there. Sobolik called people who believe in evolution, myself included, as "God haters". I meant to quote Sobolink, but misquoted him (I said "anti-God" in reference to what he called evolutionists).
Personally, I believe both in God and evolution. I do not believe in the creation myth.
But what I think is sad is that people who have a specific idea of it all, seem to think that believing in evolution has anything in the world to do with NOT believing in God. I suggest you learn what evolutionists believe, Liam, before you suggest that anyone who believes documented science is somehow ANTI-GOD!! Nothing could be further from the truth. >>
NeoPatrick, I think you're reading something into my post that's not there. Sobolik called people who believe in evolution, myself included, as "God haters". I meant to quote Sobolink, but misquoted him (I said "anti-God" in reference to what he called evolutionists).
Personally, I believe both in God and evolution. I do not believe in the creation myth.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:18 AM
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Unfortunately a ton of people who have NOT been to the museum are quick to say the museum is heavy on religion, low on science. You've made a judgement based on YOUR beliefs. I would think such estute minds would examine the evidence before making their conclusions. 
Just my observation!
Just my observation!
Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:28 AM
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stevesmoker, you are WRONG. We are basing statements on the original post here -- not our own "beliefs".
I suggest you re-read the original post and perhaps another post the same poster did on this same museum. Just for starters:
"It also has a Bible, Christian message ministry element."
The real difference is that the poster and others here seem unable to realize that a Bible, Christian ministry element" is NOT necessarily exclusive of being God believing as well as believing in proven science.
I suggest you re-read the original post and perhaps another post the same poster did on this same museum. Just for starters:
"It also has a Bible, Christian message ministry element."
The real difference is that the poster and others here seem unable to realize that a Bible, Christian ministry element" is NOT necessarily exclusive of being God believing as well as believing in proven science.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:37 AM
#52
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There are many messages here that state my views very well and better than I could have, so I'll stay out of the debate.
I just wanted to second Patrick's post to hop along -- Hop Along, I really do think you misconstrued the statement about the British and American prejudices. Like Patrick, I didn't read it that way at all.
I just wanted to second Patrick's post to hop along -- Hop Along, I really do think you misconstrued the statement about the British and American prejudices. Like Patrick, I didn't read it that way at all.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:38 AM
#53
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sobolik, have you ever visited the American Museum of Natural History (AMNH) in NYC, or the Field Museum in Chicago?
I particularly like the newly renovated Hall of Human Evolution at the AMNH. This page on their website shows the mural installed there showing primate evolution. I think it answers your questions about "half human, half monkey". (I've made it a tinyurl for display purposes; it goes to a page of the website for amnh.org.)
http://tinyurl.com/yrl9z2
And this shows one type of evolutionary tree. These diagrams (called "cladograms") are great educational tools, clearly illustrating the ways diversity on earth are related.
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/perm...lls/vertebrate
If you want a more interactive perspective, this evolutionary tree has mouseover areas and clickable photos of one section of evolution:
http://ology.amnh.org/biodiversity/t...cladogram.html
The thing about evolution is, species evolve on their own, as Liam clearly describes with the gazelle. Your wish to see a "half gazelle, half armadillo" is preposterous precisely because it's what we as humans might expect or wish to be an evolutionary benefit. But the gazelle, already along one branch of the evolutionary tree, can't just suddenly go from hide to armor. Evolution is not a magician's trick.
I was serious when I said that I would have been interested in seeing the Creation Museum as an experience I am not usually exposed to. Likewise, I suggest you visit a natural history museum: you may be surprised.
I must admit, though, that your shrieking posts here are exactly what I have experienced in the creation/evolution discussion - and make me very reluctant to see the Creation Museum for myself for fear of more of the same.
I particularly like the newly renovated Hall of Human Evolution at the AMNH. This page on their website shows the mural installed there showing primate evolution. I think it answers your questions about "half human, half monkey". (I've made it a tinyurl for display purposes; it goes to a page of the website for amnh.org.)
http://tinyurl.com/yrl9z2
And this shows one type of evolutionary tree. These diagrams (called "cladograms") are great educational tools, clearly illustrating the ways diversity on earth are related.
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/perm...lls/vertebrate
If you want a more interactive perspective, this evolutionary tree has mouseover areas and clickable photos of one section of evolution:
http://ology.amnh.org/biodiversity/t...cladogram.html
The thing about evolution is, species evolve on their own, as Liam clearly describes with the gazelle. Your wish to see a "half gazelle, half armadillo" is preposterous precisely because it's what we as humans might expect or wish to be an evolutionary benefit. But the gazelle, already along one branch of the evolutionary tree, can't just suddenly go from hide to armor. Evolution is not a magician's trick.
I was serious when I said that I would have been interested in seeing the Creation Museum as an experience I am not usually exposed to. Likewise, I suggest you visit a natural history museum: you may be surprised.
I must admit, though, that your shrieking posts here are exactly what I have experienced in the creation/evolution discussion - and make me very reluctant to see the Creation Museum for myself for fear of more of the same.
Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:06 AM
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The purpose of science is to discover rational, reasoned and verifiable explanations. The purpose of religion is to offer a substitute when none are available. Difficulty arises when science evolves (pun intended) to the point that previously proffered religious explanations are no longer required or shown to be inaccurate. Adherents of religious beliefs are often reluctant to acknowledge that their beliefs are no longer necessary or inaccurate because they tend to be tightly bound into a larger system of belief.
A hallmark of science is that it acknowledges that all findings are subject to revision based on further (valid) work, adjusting understanding to fit new evidence. A hallmark of religion is that it claims exclusivity on truth despite contradictory evidence, and typically employs circular logic to make evidence fit predetermined beliefs. Wen the first caveman saw lightning strike a tree and cause fire he needed to invent an explanation, and the god of fire was born. Today we understand laws of thermodynamics and have no need of the mythological fire god. The fire hasn't changed, our knowledge and understanding have.
It's apples and oranges Can we go back to traveling now?
A hallmark of science is that it acknowledges that all findings are subject to revision based on further (valid) work, adjusting understanding to fit new evidence. A hallmark of religion is that it claims exclusivity on truth despite contradictory evidence, and typically employs circular logic to make evidence fit predetermined beliefs. Wen the first caveman saw lightning strike a tree and cause fire he needed to invent an explanation, and the god of fire was born. Today we understand laws of thermodynamics and have no need of the mythological fire god. The fire hasn't changed, our knowledge and understanding have.
It's apples and oranges Can we go back to traveling now?
Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:16 AM
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But Seamus, you're leaving out a very important point. Many people with very strong faith, including many religious (including Christian) leaders will firmly state that there is nothing in evolution that "disproves God". They take issue with statements that evolution happened "on its own", however. They believe and even teach that the proven scientific facts regarding evolution happened with God's help. These are the ones who say that Biblical phrases like "on the second day, God created. . ." are not to be taken literally, but rather that over millions of years God allowed that to happen or even caused it to happen.
Again, there is nothing about evolution that should shake a true believer's faith in God. Although the scientific facts might get in the way of those who want to take the Bible as a "literal" rather than an allegorical truth.
Again, there is nothing about evolution that should shake a true believer's faith in God. Although the scientific facts might get in the way of those who want to take the Bible as a "literal" rather than an allegorical truth.
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