Considering a move to Raleigh or Charlotte
 

We currently live in Milwaukee, WI and are looking to make a move to a warmer climate. We've narrowed it down to North Carolina - though still deciding between Charlotte and Raleigh - and Austin, TX. We've been to Austin and know what we consider pros and cons of the location but we're pretty uniformed about North Carolina. Neither my husband nor I have ever had a chance to visit. Currently my husband has job prospects in all 3 cities and we're looking to make the move in time to get settled in before the new school starts. So it's crunch time!

Any opinions on why Charlotte would be a better choice than Raleigh or vice-versa?

We're taking a trip there next weekend to see how/if we like it. What should we see? What should we do? What should we experience? If you were trying to convince a friend to move to the area where would you take them? Any hidden gems we should know about?

We have 3 young children and I'm a stay at home mom so we definitely would like to know about family-friendly locations/activities but we also enjoy date nights and girls/guys night outs so any info on that would be helpful as well. We also enjoy outdoor activities so are excited about the closer proximity to beaches and mountains but would like to know what other fun things there are to do.

Oh, and any advice about schools and suburbs to check out would be much appreciated!

We are spending 2 days in Charlotte and 2 in Raleigh so we welcome any comments on either city.

Maybe tell us YOUR pros and cons re: Austin so we know on what basis to advise you re: NC, okay?

Schools good in both places, but there are other pros and cons (but this is an abiding sort of rivalry anyway, and people can get a little testy re their preferred city). Re: Raleigh, remember that can include Cary, Durham, and Chapel Hill, and some big differences just among those four places.

Depending on what field your husband is in, you might want to consider if it is one that may be affected by the fallout over the Governor's stance on bathrooms...

While you are in both cities do get a real estate agent to show you around the possible neighborhoods, even if you plan to rent for a little while (a REALLY good idea). You really can't do this on your own, IMO, even with Zillow.
You can be in the mountains in 2 hours or at the beach in 3 hours in charlotte--a little reversed for Raleigh, but both offer great access.
The bathroom bill will be taken care of somehow--and perhaps the overstepping arrogance of our legislature will also in coming elections.
Lots to do--professional sports teams, a now really vibrant uptown area for Charlotte.

I assume you have already been looking on citydata.com

Charlotte and Raleigh are quite different cities.

I will also mention that there are wonderful neighborhoods that are close to the city center--15 minutes.
I sort of wonder what jubilada means--yes, different, of course.
What is so startling from citydata?

I'd say the OP has the correct plan in terms of actually spending time in both places but even then and with all the very subjective opinions offered, deciding where to live involves so many different factors and can be a difficult decision.

As to Zillow, Trulia, and Realtor.com, I keep being told they are woefully out of date in some instances so speaking to an actual realtor seems like the wisest thing to do.

I have a friend who moved from Milwaukee to Raleigh and she has been very happy there. However, her children were grown at the time so I have no impression of the school system. Right now the politics in the state are driving her bananas… but not enough to move!

I don't think those sites are too far out of date. They give a good idea of what the house is selling for, IMO (and we recently sold). But an agent can tell about the school diestrict and you get a much better idea of the neighborhoods, IMO.

I didn't mean anything was startling on city data, just that they have extensive information about both.

I think a better way to get information on a city is to dial up their newspapers and look a little. But nothing like real first hand looking in person.

Zillow, Trulia, etc. are worthless in Austin because Texas is a non-disclosure state. In other words, they do not disclose what the house sold for so those sites rely just on tax records.

BTW, if you are seriously considering Austin, please make sure you understand the current housing market, which is basically nuts. People are being priced out of the market and rents are sky high. Not to mention traffic...ugh!

Well, no, not what they sell for but what they could market for or in the case of Charlotte, the tax value which is the full value of the appraisal.

Thanks so much to all of you for your replies.

cfc - I think that's what makes our decision so difficult (we're hoping that our upcoming trip will sway our decision one way or the other) is because our cons for either city don't heavily outweigh the pros. It really is a tie right now.

We love that Austin is so progressive and the "Keep Austin Weird" vibe is fun. People really seem to take pride in living there even though most of them are transplants. And I think that's why we find it such a friendly and accepting place to live. We're excited for a warmer client though admittedly the sweltering heat may not agree with me. I've lived in Nevada so am used to hot but it was a dry heat. I like the idea of four distinct seasons in NC but while it would certainly be much milder winters I'm still not excited about having 20-30 degree nights. Property taxes are sky high but I'm used to that here in Wisconsin. Definitely a draw for us in NC is the MUCH lower taxes. However, you don't pay state income taxes in Texas - not that those are comparable. I've also heard from many people that they feel landlocked in Austin. NC's location allows for more diversity in weekend trips or close vacations. We love being outdoors and outdoor activities and I feel NC would be awesome for that but aside from Hill Country it seems there's not a lot in Austin for that type of thing. Austin's traffic - 'nough said there. My husband and I are both foodies and LOVE the food in Austin. Though I've been told NC has a lot to offer there.
And lets not forget the Austin allergies.

So those are our most glaring concerns. I'd like to say something about the schools but I've not really heard much about them in NC and in Austin they seem to be hit or miss but I'm aware of what some good ones are and those areas are where we would focus on residing.

Icuy - luckily my husband's line of work isn't affected by the current political issues but I will admit this has been something that has made me leery of moving to the state.

Gretchen - That's a great idea, thank you.

Jubilada - I have looked on City Data as well as posted asking for information but unfortunately I'm not quite getting the info I'm asking for but rather lots of opinions on what I should do instead of recommendations for learning about the areas.

AustinTraveler - I do! I've been looking into the housing market there for a while and we do know a couple of people who are current residents who have been keeping us up to date.

Not for nothing, but based on what you've written, sure sounds like Austin's where you should be.

Otherwise:

Some areas in NC have higher taxes than you think, and not surprisingly, they're where the better schools are. But unfortunately, I think Austin's better schools may be better than all but a few of NC's (sorry Tar Heels) -- the best in NC are on a par with average with some other, stronger states (check some of the stats). But then it ALWAYS matters what you think is a "good" school -- emphasis on academics? emphasis on citizenship? emphasis on sports? emphasis on diversity? emphasis on virtue?

NC's heat is very humid and goes on for 5-6 months. The winters are negligible - 6 weeks and rarely below 32, even at night.

And one more time, there's more difference between Charlotte and the Triangle than you'd think, and proximity to other places you'd like to go is a consideration -- it's a big state!

Re: real estate in NC. It's a buyers' market and you'll do well pretty much anywhere you want to be. It is very likely less expensive than Austin, but remember that neither 'city' is a city with the wealth or cultural resources of Austin. It's a place where the happiest people are those who like to live and socialize outdoors and would rather not have to confront politics too squarely. Those with wealth often have a second house somewhere and do serious shopping during their trips north, west, or to Europe. Those without wealth can still have a very nice house and life, although you might find it takes a while for some to forget you're not a Southerner. I don't know if that's true of Austin.

NC's heat is very humid and goes on for 5-6 months. The winters are negligible - 6 weeks and rarely below 32, even at night.
___
I disagree with this....regarding winter.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...th-average.php

Janet - it does go all over the place - 12" of snow in Durham one winter, none the next. But look at the temps on your link -- average low in Jan. is only month the average goes below 32F. We lived in the Triangle for 22 yrs. and I only remember one winter (our first) when it ever got below 15F, and there were plenty when we never had a hard freeze -- there's a reason for all that lush greenery and flowers!!

Another issue is what you call winter. To someone from New England, winter is winter until the first flowers come up and the temp is around 50, which in NC is late Feb. To someone from Md/Va the standard for spring might be a higher temp and more blooming.

Finally, until comparatively recently (and as you probably know), the standards for proper insulation were notably lower in the South than further north - until air conditioning began to be more common AND more expensive. Older houses had very little insulation (but plenty of ceiling fans). We FROZE in our NC house the first two winters, even though the outside temp was milder than anything we'd experienced in MA, NY, VA, or IL. We added several inches of insulation and replaced the HVAC system, and it made a huge difference.

The average may only below 32 in January but there were 65 days of the year where it was below 32 degrees.....that is not "it rarely goes below 32". And there were 10 days where it got below 20.

20 °F
-8 °C 32 °F
0 °C 40 °F
4 °C
January 5 18 26
February 2 14 22
March 0 7 16
April 0 1 7
May 0 0 1
June 0 0 0
July 0 0 0
August 0 0 0
September 0 0 0
October 0 1 5
November 0 7 17
December 3 17 25
Year 10 65 119

Janet: I went back to the website you linked and looked at all the charts, not just the first one, which talks about average lows in Charlotte and says only January has a low average of 30F. Worth remembering that lows happen usually overnight, when people are not out and about. Also true when I looked at the chart you copied - and 10 nights a year when the overnight temp is around 20F (none by March) isn't exactly the deep freeze! ;-)

As I said, I lived in the Triangle - which may or may not have different temps - for more than 2 decades, and from the point of view of someone who experienced many years in Boston, Rochester NY and Chicago, winter in NC is a drastically different, and warmer, experience. For the record, I also lived 13 yrs. in Virginia suburbs of DC and thought I'd died and gone to heaven during those glorious springs. But even winter there is a lot more 'serious' than in NC's Piedmont region.

I notice no one is mentioning extreme weather - for example hurricanes. As far inland as either Charlotte or the Triangle might be, you can still have an "exciting" time off the power grid from time to time.

Then there are the ice storms! Now THAT is not a "negligible" winter experience! Went 14 days without power while recovering from one in early December. When the power came back on it was 42F INDOORS. That's colder than when it's 20F outdoors but you have heat! :-D

How often does Austin get hit with tornadoes? Had a few warnings in NC but not like the west.

Earthquakes?

My point is that NC has winter in a way Texas will not. It's isn't something that is a rarity. I lived in NE NC for 5 years and have spent far too many horse shows in Raleigh in cold and ice.

Why are they scheduling horse shows in the winter? ;-D

But as I noted, there's nothing less pleasant than ice storms - I agree 1000% And no, Austin doesn't have them. To go back to my original sense of this choice, OP will probably be happier in Austin.

(Also note, though, that OP is now in Milwaukee, which knows a thing or two about ***winter***)

"real estate in NC. It's a buyers' market"

Where did you get that idea? Certainly not true for the Triangle.

See: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/bus...e78582302.html

Well, yes, NC has ice storms.
And you actually cannot compare the weather in Raleigh and Charlotte for wintertime, interestingly enough. There is a snow line that occurs about 20 miles north of Charlotte. We will have zero snow, and above it will be some inches--or feet!! This makes ME unhappy 'cause I happen to love snow!!

No tornadoes to speak of like in OK or such, but they happen anywhere with severe thunderstorms. Hurricane "fallout" can be considerable, but manageable except for the biggies we have had in the past.

The OP will "escape" hard winters in any of the 3 places. The weather will be humid in all 3. I'd guess there is more snow, etc. in Austin.
Time to make a decision on quality of life, opportunities, schools, job, etc.
I will say that Charlotte has a wonderful quality of life with a very involved corporate community that sifts down to residents by having good cultural series, charitable giving, caring communities. The medical care is without peer.

Austin is not humid and rarely sees snow.

the happiest people are those who like to live and socialize outdoors and would rather not have to confront politics too squarely. Those with wealth often have a second house somewhere and do serious shopping during their trips north, west, or to Europe. Those without wealth can still have a very nice house and life, although you might find it takes a while for some to forget you're not a Southerner. I don't know if that's true of Austin.

I had NO idea I was so unhappy!! Is Austin really the only place the "poor" can enjoy themselves and have house. REALLY?

As far as I know Austin is the capital of a deep red state, and will be governed as such in all its aspects. Remember, you brought it up. :O(

I think at least 2 people posting on this thread are disaffected NC residents. Sometimes when meeting people in a new place you make your own first impression? Just sayin'.

"Where did you get that idea? Certainly not true for the Triangle."

I was selling a house in 2014-15 -- 5/3, most desirable school district, convenient location on cul-de-sac, perfect condition, new kitchen and A/C -- and was told there were 75+ houses per 1 prospective buyer in Orange County at the time. So obviously our timing would have been better if we'd waited til this year. As it was we had to drop our price 4 times -- realtors loved the house, but buyers were able to take their time, ask for the moon and get it.

We went from that market to this (eastern MA) where houses were on the market for a few days, sales prices were bid up ca. 15% over asking, and contingencies were toxic to the sale. Quite a contrast - we went the 'wrong' direction, although I don't regret it for a second.

A last point - do be aware that newspapers make a lot of money on real estate advertising, and that the headlines in spring are likely to be very booster-ish, picking and choosing stats (for example: "Home sales are now up 9 percent through the first four months of the year" -- they pretty much always go up in the first 4 months, ditto prices) and being enthusiastic. Realtors are happy to be quoted saying things are GREAT but you better hurry up and sell/buy if you don't want to miss out!

Gretchen - I had no idea you were so unhappy either! So sorry!

By "those without wealth" I didn't mean "the poor." I meant those who aren't in the top 1-10% and may not have two houses or travel/shop a lot -- if you can afford $150K-$400K for a house there, you live very well indeed, much better than in many other places. That's what I meant.

However, the business about being reminded that you don't come from the South is a true thing, despite the great numbers of people who've moved to NC. Sometimes it just seemed an automatic part of the conversation to make 'odious comparisons' regarding people who weren't born there, customs, etc. etc. and then say "oh, but you're not like that."

As for Red vs. Blue state - have you really missed what's been going on in NC politics of the last several years, or even just this year? And it's not just about public bathrooms.

(However, I've never been under any illusions about Texas politics, believe me. Given a choice, I wouldn't live in Austin, although a dear cousin does -- just seemed like OP's comments about her preferences leaned more in that direction.)

Finally, it's certainly a snarky comment to imply that if people behaved a certain way that made me uncomfortable, it must have been my fault and I deserved it.

Having lived in several areas, I can safely say that while any place has people who are super-aware of differences, esp. with newcomers, the persistence of the consciousness of geog. origin is more marked in the South. But Southerners don't like to admit that except to each other. For a place where manners are everything, it's striking how often an artful snarkiness can surface regarding what you're like and where you come from. "Bless your heart" sugar-coats a lot of snark.

ElizAnne: North Carolina is a BEAUTIFUL state, it must be said. More people are moving TO there than FROM there. Ignore the squabbling, ElizAnne, and take the comments for what they're worth. And come back and let us know what you think after your visit there. Good for you for taking the time to learn about all of this.

One thing I was going to mention about Charlotte is the wide choice of neighborhoods in many levels of cost--AND the pride the pride in them exhibited in the care of yards and homes. I am sure this is true many places. Charlotte has close in neighborhoods that are gentrifying at a rapid rate.
As said, visit and get good information--again I suggest a real estate agent for a day.
Our daughter lived in Austin and San Antonio. fun towns. She's moved back to Charlotte now and her experience with house hunting as well as ours just having sold was eye opening for the neighborhoods and the growth. Lots going on in the center city these days which might be interesting to you for your husband's workplace.
NC is a GREAT place to live and raise kids. There have been VERY extensive in depth newspaper articles about the school system written in the past 2 months--just about every day there has been a feature so you can be very well informed.

My copies of Charlotte Magazine, Southern Living AND Garden and Gun just arrived!!
You might look for these for some articles about the towns--Austin is also covered in SL. I know Texas and NC both have state magazines--the NC Magazine is excellent.
G&G is beginning to expand into the larger "south" also.