Children On Airplanes
 

I notice there are several angry messages about children on airplanes. Why is this such a controversial issue to some people?<BR>We in the younger generation of parents today are much better than out parents when it comes to going with the flow and letting our children grow at their own pace.<BR>We're more free and can be our childrens friends instead of just the old army warden type personality that our parents usually had.<BR>Our two sons, 2.5 and 5, have flown several times and don't ever cause a fuss. Except maybe in the eyes of some stuffy types who hate kids.<BR>Our kids are friendly and don't hesitate to say hi to everyone. They can get fussy like all little ones but hey, they're kids. Get over it.<BR>I think people who want childless plane trips should either start their own airline (maybe "Derry Air"...as in kiss mine) or just take the bus.

I think the problem arises when parents neglect to watch their kids and assume others will watch them and keep them safe.I have seen this happen everywhere not just on airplanes and it creates ill feelings toward kids who normally are very nice, just not well controlled.Bottom line, keep 'em under control and we're all happy.

You need to read my post on children on airplanes. It's one of the most popular posts at Fodor's right now. We're having a great discussion of what's wrong with parents today. Come visit us!<BR>Baby Lover

Personally, I would find it terribly rude if your children were saying 'hi' to everyone on the plane, or even just me. Parents you think their kids are 'so cute' are the worst offenders in my book. <BR>BTW, you are a PARENT, not a friend. This generation (of which I am a member) has been done a great disservice with all this friendly parent crap, and you can bet I won't do that if I have kids. In public, seen but not heard is a good rule of thumb.

I don't think most people have a problem with kids who know how to behave, but the problem is parents who think it's cute when their kids have tantrums in the middle of the aisle or kick the seat in front of them for 3000 miles or emit high-pitched screams every 30 seconds from coast-to-coast.<BR><BR>It's really an issue of consideration for other people. If your kids aren't disruptive, then by all means take them on the plane. If you think that other people should babysit your kids or "get over it" while they're being brats, then maybe you're the one who should be taking the bus. If your kids are throwing a fit in an enclosed space, you could try to calm them down and at least be apologetic to the people they're bothering -- don't get an attitude and tell me it's MY problem because I don't enjoy it.<BR><BR>And I'm in my 20s, so I think I'm "in the younger generation" you mentioned and I still don't want your kids shrieking and smearing their sticky graham cracker fingers all over me for 4 hours.

J, I'm with you on the parents as parents thing, but really, children saying hi is rude? My daughter is 17 months, Hi is one of the first words she learned, so she uses it. What am I supposed to do, spank her when she greets people too much or too often? Seriously.

I hate kids.<BR><BR>You better hope they do not end up on my flight because I have no problem yelling at YOU to shut the little rug rat, ankle biter up.<BR><BR>I love to make mean faces at kids and scare the crap out of them. <BR>

AMEN!!!!!!!

Kid Hater sure tells it like it is! Everyone thinks their kid is so special and smarter than everyone else's. The truth is they're just AVERAGE.

Dunno, maybe it's just my wierd bent, but I find babies/toddlers a hoot! They can't help themselves if they're noisy, so it really doesn't bother me. I've engaged a lot of kids of all sizes in banter/conversation/face-making in my travels, and I can honestly say that none of them have caused me any discomfort. Bring 'em on!<BR>ja

Trolling:<BR><BR>That's funny. It's true, all people think their children are the best and everyone else's are just AVERAGE. I am not a parent so I can be a objective observer. <BR><BR>I had a parent who was very strict while growing up. However, we were the best behaved children whether we went to a restaurant, flight or bridal or baby shower. I'm glad I got that kind of upbringing. My Mom was never my friend in childhood, a parent is supposed to provide guidance and discipline not be a best friend.

Look, I have kids, and travel with them often. I also can't tolerate annoying behavior in kids. I have ZERO tolerence for my children being disruptive, loud or kicking the back of someone's seat. If fact, rarely do we fly when we are not complimented on our childrens behavior. They read books, draw, snack or play gameboys. I tried games in the early years and quickly found that the kids tended to get loud when playing them, so we put an end to that, quickly. I insist they speak in very low tones on flights. <BR><BR> Believe me, I don't want my kids annoying anyone anymore than I want to be annoyed by anyone else's kids. I only once had another passenger get mad, because 2 hours into a flight he turned around and yelled at my son "Would you stop kicking my seat!" My other son was seated in between us so I didn't even notice that he was "kicking" (Which he wasn't really doing, it's just that at a certain size, kids feet can't reach the floor and naturally end up hitting the back of the seat in front of them, but some of you have this paranoid delusion that these kids are out to get you). I said to the man "If you spoke up sooner, I would have made sure my son didn't bother you, no need to scream at us". After that I and he made the effort (and it is an effort at a certain size), to make sure he didn't so much as graze the back of that seat.<BR><BR>You cannot avoid airplanes when traveling. If some of you spent as much time realizing that there are just as many, if not more good parents watching there children rather than whining about the few who stand out because they were annoying, you'd realize how wrong you are. You don't notice the well behaved quiet kids because they don't stand out. I also wouldn't dream of bringing my kids to places they don't belong, like baby and bridal showers. Even well-behaved kids shouldn't be dragged to these types of functions.

Yes, most kids are horrible brats nowadays, and their over-indulgent parents are doing them no favors by training them this way. Just once I'd like to see a parent tell a child to behave in public because that is what's EXPECTED, and not BRIBE them to behave w/promises of toys, McDonalds, etc.<BR><BR>I don't know what the hell happened to parenting, but it's sad and scary. Let's hope they find a clue and learn how to be PARENTS and not FRIENDS!!!

Agree, nokids. You are absolutely right.

Parents today are better than our parents? That is simply not true. The majority of parents today are 2 income wage earners who buy their kids lots of stuff to make up for working and not being there. Most kids are spoiled, pampered and lack respect for others because parents fail to teach them. They abdciate more and more of their parental authority to the schools and/or daycare. Just last week I was reading an article in our local paper where a high school kid was expelled in a suburban school and the parents got a lawyer and threatened legal action unless the kid was readmitted. What is this teaching kids? They are not responsible for their actions! This is the attitude of today...

Evidently kids are not just "horrible brats" now. They must have also been that way when Rich, kid hater, Marty, trolling and ja were kids. Look at the way these people are behaving on the internet. You consider yourselves to have a respectable opinion about children when you are no better than a horrible brat yourself? Look at yourselves. It's one thing to see horrible bratiness in children, but a terrifying disgrace to see it in adults.<BR><BR>I'd rather put up with someone else's bratty kid anyday, than wastes of otherwise useful space like yourselves. You must be people with serious personal flaws and insecurities. Better take a look within, you need serious help. I hope I never meet the likes of any of you anywhere, it would completely ruin my day.<BR><BR>Children are beautiful, until of course they are ruined by associations with people like you who God-forbid should ever become parents yourselves - uggh, what a sick thought.<BR><BR>Go crawl in a hole, because that's the only place you'll be able to completely avoid children.

I think that it is important for parents to understand that we are all paying money for a flight, and given that fact, we all have the right to not be disturbed by obnoxious, screaming children. When I was small, my parents would leave me home with my Grandmother when they traveled. I think that some parents do not realize that children may be afraid of the noise of an airplane as well as the confined space, in addition to the fact that their ears may hurt as a result of the altitude. <BR>This problem is not just limited to infants and toddlers, but also to older kids. On one flight there were a brother and sister (about 6-7 yrs. old) sitting next to their Grandmother in the row in fromt of me, teasing each other and standing up in their seat and constantly talking to me and the passenger next to me, despite the fact that we ignored them and pretended to be sleeping. Finally, I summoned the flight attendant and the problem was solved. So please, be considerate of your children, as well as those around you. All they want is to have a relaxing and peaceful flight.<BR><BR>Thank you.

To Stephanie and Nina - I have to agree with you 100%.<BR><BR>I have three grandsons and people would never be able to say the things about them like they did about my children and my parents children.<BR><BR>I blame the parents. In this case, my daughter (who I love more than life). She is an awsome mother but can not dicipline those boys for anything.<BR><BR>If I hear "honey, use your INSIDE voice", one more time I am going to scream. We live in the snow belt in upstate New York and the kids play outside a total of 10 weeks out of the year. Yes, this is my own flesh and blood that I am bashing, but I will not go to the grocery store with them because without fail they misbehave and my daughter has a different idea of what discipline means. So, I visit spoil them in the house and then leave. It is the new generation.<BR>

Let me tell you one more thing - <BR><BR>God forbid that plane crashes. I will be running and stepping on your little bundle of joy to get the hell out of there. Give them a real reason to cry!!!<BR><BR>

I hesitated to add a comment to this thread - both sides can be so vitriolic in their responses to perfectly sensible comments.<BR>My husband and I have travelled extensively to the caribbean,Europe,Hawaii and all over North America.<BR>We have observed children behaving so well that we just had to compliment the parents and children behaving so horribly that yes we glared at them and their parents and on instances of really out of control behavior we spoke to the parents and/or child.<BR>Now to the point:<BR>If a child is very young we have reasonable expections about behavior - we expect very young children to speak out of turn ( I always say Hi to a small child who greats me - i find it charming), they may get cranky (I expect a parent to do their best to divert the child (parents who ignore cranky toddlers get a nasty glare.) I expect parents to control anti-social behaviors such as seat kicking,running up and down the aisles, grabbing other peoples' things,fighting with siblings,yelling and screaming. If they don't I will speak to them. I expect parents to PARENT and that means helping your child become a non destructive member of society. Part of that is teaching children behaviors appropriate to the situation and consideration of the rights of others. It also means making it easier for kids to behave - have things to divert them on a long flight,make sure they understand that certain behaviors will NOT be tolerated at all. Also I would avoid (except in case of necessity) taking very young children on really long flights (e.g. east coast to Hawaii). Such long flights are hard enough on me as an adult - I can only imagine how awful they must be for a 2 or 4 year old - please do us and them a huge favor wait till they are a little older for that long trip.<BR>Well I have gone on a bit and probably offended the bad parents out there - I think the good ones will know exactly what I am talking about. In summary:<BR>I think people not travelling with kids should try to keep an open mind when they spot someone with children and I think parents must realize they are PARENTS and therefore responsible for their children.

Jean, very thoughtful and excellent points. While we have traveled with our children quite a bit, I still won't take a long fight with them. We briefly considered Hawaii this year because of the supercheap fare, but decided that even at a bargain flight, it would be pushing the limits of our 9 and 12 year olds. I still want to give it a few more years before I subject them, and all the other passengers to an 11 hour flight. As well behaved as some kids are, extremely long flights and very late nights will tax any child. My husband can't remain seated for that long much less the boys!

Nina: If your children are 9 and 12 and you can't control them - you have failed miserably as a parent.

To sssxxx-<BR> I suggest you reread my response - I stated that children do NOT bother me. If you're unfamiliar with idiomatic slang, the phrase "a hoot" means a lot of fun. I don't mind someone disagreeing with my opinion, but being flamed by someone who doesn't grasp the meaning of my comment is a bit much. Also, how does my expressing my amusement at the antics of children reflect on my upbringing? I'm afraid I don't follow that.<BR>Oh, and I use a real e-mail address and my initials to post.<BR>ja

Hmm, I didn't say I couldn't control them. Apparently you're hallucinating, again. <BR><BR>I said that I wouldn't expect them to remain seated and quiet for an 11 hour flight like they normally do on all their previous flights, particularly the 9 year old, who is very active.As someone who clearly exhibits signs of ADD yourself, you should relate to this behavior. You see I WON'T allow my children to run up and down the aisles or jump up in their seats, I never have.

<BR>to the other "Jean" who posted above, excellent points. I agree 100%. We took our first international trip 3 years ago and are getting ready for our third int'l trip this summer. My boys were 15, 11, and 6 for the first trip and did great. They were all old enough to make the long flight and plenty old enough to be respectful of others. I haven't had a bad experience yet with out of control children or rude parents and hope I don't. There have been a couple of crying toddlers, but I felt sorry for the children making the long flight, and the parents were able to get the children to go to sleep after a bit.

As a school counselor with a Master's Degree in Child Development, I can tell you that the parenting style that Carol describes is causing a LOT of problems. Children don't want their parents to be their best friends. They want parents.<BR><BR>There is a happy medium between permissive and warden parenting. It is a proven fact that this kind of parenting produces the happiest, well adjusted children and, later adults.

Actualy sssxxx I'm an only child and was never ill behaved. I also had a stay at home parent that taught me manners. People care more about having a bigger house and car, etc. than raising decent children. And that's why kids today act terribly. There is no one to teach them right from wrong. They are raised by strangers in daycare.

I do think its the fault of the parents of not providing some entertainment for their children on flights. None of these parents carry coloring books, puzzles, Logos, etc. This would keep the children more busy instead of being bored out of their minds. I know that I like reading and doing puzzles so it's got to be triple the boredom for children.

And when they act up next to me on a plane I'm not going to smile and say "they're so cute" because they're not.

I can't help but to chime in on this one. I agree with the posts that say that parents need to parent more and not try to be their kids friends. Kids need guidance on proper behavior in all social situations. Not only airplanes, but restaurants, movie theatres, church etc. We take our kids to all the above and they know that they are expected to behave. I let my kids know that the world does not revolve around them and they need to be considerate of others. I can't tell you the number of times people have complimented me on my children's behavior. <BR>I love traveling on planes with my kids. It gives us unintrepted time together and they love the attention they recieve from us.

sssxxx, thanks for pointing out the error of my ways. Now that you have shown me the light, I realize it is actually a blessing for me to spend $400 on a plane ticket so I can have the kid behind me kick my seat all the way across the country or scream at the top of his lungs for 4 hours. How could I have been so wrong?<BR><BR>Please, get with the program. Would it be okay for me to take my boombox on the plane and blast it for 4 hours? Would it be okay for me to tear pages out of a legal pad, wad them up, and throw them at other people on the plane? Of course not. And don't tell me there's a difference because I know better and the kids don't. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that kids don't know any better, their parents SHOULD. I don't get mad at misbehaving kids, I get mad at their parents. If the kids have never been told that it's not okay to be a brat, you can't expect them to behave any other way. It's their parents who need to wake up and learn the meaning of the word "consideration."

Rich,<BR>You can get mad at the parents, but if so, I would be mad at them for bringing kids on the plane, not for being unable to control them. The fact is, an airplane is uncomfortable for adults and children. It's not a great environment. So I don't blame kids for getting rambunctious -- I do too. I've seen a lot of adults act like jerks on airplanes too. In fact, I've seen a LOT more adults act like imbeciles than kids.