On this one I still disagree, exiledprincess. ;)

I wholeheartedly agree that cutting in line is rude. I wholeheartedly disagree that 1 person saving a spot in line for a table for X number of people is cutting in line. As Starrs said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Here's how I look at it. Say I'm in line for a table, with 10 people ahead of me. It could turn out to be 2 parties of 5, making me 3rd in line for a table, or it could be 5 parties of 2, making me 6th in line. There's no way to know; it's just the luck of the draw.

Now this situation, which happened to me years ago at the Taste of Chicago, was definitely cutting in line, and definintely rude. I had been waiting in line to buy tickets for 10-15 minutes. I was 2 or 3 people from the front when a man came up out of nowhere and got in line behind the 1st person. I said, "Excuse me, but there's a line here." He responded with "You do what you have to do, and I'll do what I have to do," and proceeded to buy his tickets.

ANYWAY, mlm59, please report back and let us know where you ended up and how you liked it!

Think of it this way: You are in line at a restaurant, 10 people from the door (where the establishment then takes your name and you then have to wait an additional 15-30 minutes to be seated at the actual table). Only each of those 10 people aren't dining solo, but "holding a place in the line" for 3 to 5 others, maybe more, who aren't there. Suddenly that line isn't 10 people but 50 people. Would you have waited in the first place? Wouldn't you feel a little disgruntled?

And please don't think this is a far-fetched scenario. Because if all of the people knew they didn't have to wait in line, none but the absolute minimum number would do it.

SusanM and starrs, we are specifically speaking of some very small restaurants which can have a much more than an hour wait to even get up to the door, not just 10 minutes. They don't take reservations as a rule; or, if they do, it's only for larger parties. The OP and group are not going to a fast turn-over place, such as the Taste of Chicago, although there may be time limits on the table, once you get one. May not be stated in writing (but could be on the menu) but the waiter/waitress will let them know when they should be departing by her actions. Because, of course, you have that long line of people waiting for the table after you.

If the OP was going to a place such as Hot Doug's, which has a waiting line topping 1.5 hours - sometimes approaching 2 hours and snakes clear around the block at the busiest of times, this is even more of an issue.

Doesn't have to be a restaurant, though. Could be we are speaking of a movie premier where the people stand in lines for hours (sometimes overnight). Or a concert or sporting event (SRO). Or if the OP was going to the Shedd Aquarium*, which of all the major museums has the very longest of lines - by 11:00 a.m. or before. Or the Willis Tower*, they could be waiting up to a couple of hours in that line. Things of this nature are not unusual in major cities. *That's why people buy the Chicago cards or Fast Passes for extra $$$ to avoid that.

Even at the supermarket, I can be waiting 1/2 hour or more before I get to the register. That is, if I am foolish and go at the busiest of times.

In any of these cases, it's a *LONG* line of people waiting a *LONG* time. Much more than 6 people in line. Sometimes 50-100 or more.

It becomes even more of an issue when it's a restaurant that's recently been critiqued as "excellent", "best of" or highlighted on certain T.V. shows. Such as these places the OP is mentioning.

Some restaurants, though, have ways of avoiding this situation. For example, they won't seat the party until all of them are there and only hold the reservation for "x" amount of minutes after you are called to the table. You don't meet that criteria, it's the back of the line for you, if you still wish to be there.

My point is that consideration of others is key here. You don't want to force that person behind you to wait any longer - because *you* wouldn't want to be put in that situation yourself. Would you?

OMG. Is the horse dead yet?

To get back to the original post, I'm not sure about Honkeytonk BBQ, but the rest are easily accessible by CTA. I also second going to Manny's and _ if you like Man v. Food _ Lucky's in Wrigleyville.

In the interest of adding some perspective, here's my thought:

When you hold a place in line at a restaurant you are holding a place for one table, of a particular size. It doesn't matter if you are holding a table for two, four, six, or sixteen. You represent a group of diners.

The important question to ask before getting in any restaurant line is how many people ahead of you are waiting for a table that seats the number in your party. That determines your wait, not the total number of people in line.

It would be foolish for all members of a dining party to wait in line when one person can represent the group. Counting diners isn't the issue, counting parties is the answer to the "should I get in line" question.

In the supermarket you count the number of carts, the number of people is superfluous. And, for the movie theatre, why not purchase your tickets in advance and avoid the line completely?

My apologies if someone has already talked about this.

And, I'm filing away the Chicago recommendations for future travel.

1. I may be mistaken but I think that most consider "holding a place in line" to be different than "cutting in line". "Holding a place in line" = The person was already physically there and had to leave for a very brief while for a particular reason (to use the facilities, put money in the parking meter, etc.) - only to return quickly.

IMHO, in the instance of "holding a place in line", if you are considerate of those behind you, it's best to let those them know what's happening and ask them if they mind. In all my years, I have never, ever, ever seen a single person object to that circumstance. It's quite the contrary if those person(s) were never there in the first place.

I've even been some places solo, waiting in a long line, and had to leave the line for a particular reason. I have just asked the people behind me if they minded "holding my place in line" for me, explaining why, and that I'd be right back. Not a single one objected and all were gracious. I truly believe that if you treat people with fairness and kindness they return that favor.

2. We are discussing some fairly small establishments in this thread. They don't have a great number of tables in the first place, and sometimes the tables only seat 2-4 people. Some of these places mentioned above only have seating for 50-60 people tops. I know of some places with only 10-12 tables in total. The way some of these restaurants handle larger groups is by putting tables together, meaning there is even less available seating than before. That's why the line gets so l-o-n-g sometimes. Many people + few tables = long waits.

3. When you purchase your tickets in advance for movies, you only avoid the ticket line. That doesn't mean you can avoid the long line for entrance and seating - that is, unless you don't care where you sit.

mlm, I do apologize that this thread has headed OT several times.

exiledprincess,

I must live in a very different environment for dining than you - the things you are saying just don't apply other than cutting in line is cutting in line. I think everyone understands what that means.

As to the rest of your post, I'm not sure where you experience these problems; I've found by asking before getting in line at any restaurant, I can find out the wait. If I was not able to find out I would consider it a colossal waste of time to get in a line without understanding the situation. Again, the number of people in line is not relevant it's the number and size of parties in line. Do you get in line and expect to be able to identify and count all of the parties ahead of you? Wouldn't it be much more straightforward to ask the maitre d' (or host/hostess)? They have the information.

At theatres, my experience is that purchasing tickets online eliminates a wait at the ticket office where you may find your preferred show is sold out. And I've never had a problem with long lines to enter/select a seat. But then, I don't go to many red carpet premieres, perhaps that's the difference.

And, returning to restaurants: it doesn't matter the size of a restaurant, the same "rules" apply: if there's a line ASK restaurant personnel about the parties ahead of you. They will tell you the number of parties and will estimate when you will be seated. Try it, ask about the number of parties waiting to be seated and you can stop worrying about how many people are lined up out front. In my experience dining parties often separate if there are other activities in the adjacent area. I believe it's quite common - I've seen it done throughout the US and overseas - and have, until this time, not heard it's problematic. As far as size, you will usually have a shorter wait at a larger dining room, but it still depends on the number of parties ahead of you.

I'm confused as to why putting tables together is an issue (I'm about to repeat myself at this point), if you ask about the parties already in line and request an estimate for seating what does the size of the restaurant or the number of tables or arrangement of tables tell you? The maitre d' can easily provide wait time and it allows me to decide if I wish to wait.

But, continue to count people if it works for you. I'm not sure what you're learning about seating diners or wait time, but by all means, if it gives you pleasure . . .

Yikes . . . .

Sigh. I thought that by explaining this just a little further, this issue could be put to rest, but...

Could be that it's a little different in a much larger city, such as Chicago or NYC than in Boston. That's not a comment on anything, other than the sheer size of population and/or the effect of tourism.

I can only give you true-to-life instances and let you assess from there. Doesn't mean it's *always* the case, but can be if a person goes at the busiest of times.

I am not speaking of a red-carpet movie premiere. Just a regular opening of a greatly-anticipated movie. Two lines - one for the tickets and the other for the seats. I, too, purchase my tickets in advance. Many, many times I have been at the premiere (usually held at midnight), which was sold out - perhaps for a week or more in advance - and the line of people waiting in line to get to their seats is clear out the door.

The wait in the lines to access the Skydeck at the Willis Tower can approach or exceed 2 hours at the busiest times. That is, if you don't pay for the fast-pass. But you still have to wait on the elevator line.

The line for the Shedd Aquarium during the summer season can be the longest of them all. It's clear around the block of the aquarium at 10:30-11:00 a.m. and only gets longer as the day progresses.

Lastly, the wait time on tables at restaurants. Are you thinking that you have even gotten to the door to ask about the wait time? Not always the case - sometimes you are standing out on the street, waiting on the sidewalk. And, in my own personal experience (and I eat out a great deal), rarely is the wait time quoted accurate. Most likely it is under, sometimes by a 1/2 hour or more.

If you look above, you'll find that another poster mentioned the hour + wait at one of the restaurants. That is accurate for that restaurant, and may be a little optimistic at times.

There are places here where the wait can exceed 1.5 hours and approaches 2 hours at the busiest of times (i.e., Hot Doug's). The line (which is outside of the building - because this is just a small hot dog stand) stretches clear down and around the block. And that's during both summer *AND* our marvelous winter. Maybe you don't believe that but if you just take a look at some user reviews on various websites, many mention exactly how long they've waited.

BTW, it is not unknown that one of the restaurants mentioned (Smoque) routinely runs out of particular options - pretty early in the day too. Hope the OP takes note of this.

Tables: Say you have 10 tables which seat 2 people and 10 tables which seat 4 people at a restaurant. That means the restaurant can only have a maximum of 60 people seated at any given time. You have a party of 5 or 6. The restaurant puts 1 table which seats 2 with 1 table which seats 4 together, thus eliminating one of the separate tables. Some unlucky couple behind them is gonna have to wait even longer because that separate table is no longer - well - separate.

I believe that you may be thinking that the restaurant always seats the parties when a table for that size party opens up. Not always the case. Sometimes they serve the people in the *exact order* they are standing in line. It just depends on the place.

And, since this is the holiday season coming up: A Chicago tradition is going to the Walnut Room at Macy's (formerly Marshall Field's) and dining under the Great Tree. Because the lines are *so very long*, starting very early in the morning, they actually give you pagers (vibrating) which you then carry around with you in the store until it's your turn to be seated. Since it's been a couple of years since I've taken someone there, I'm not sure now if they even quote wait times. I seem to remember, though, that they alert you to the fact that the wait can be "x" amount of time (upwards of 1.5 hours, 2 hours, etc.). They just page you when the table is ready.

If it means anything to help out bringing this issue to a close, just as a single example, perhaps the folks here would like to take a look at the Wikipedia website, under the term "Rudeness". I think you will find some information there about the subject of cutting in line and what it means.

exiled, thanks for another homework assignment (reading the wiki listing for "Rudeness" ) but many of us live in cities and towns of different sizes, have a wide variety of life experiences, understand the concept of cutting in line... and STILL do not agree with your opinion re mominburb's suggestion back on Oct 17th. I sincerely doubt another 1000 or 10,000 words in further explanation will change our POVs.

Is "cutting in line" rude? I think everyone agrees that it is. Some of us have said so above - example, SusanM on Oct 26.
Is what mominburb suggested on Oct 17th "cutting in line" and therefore "rude"?
I think it's obvious that many of say "no".

ps - the Walnut Room sounds a lot like the Magnolia Room in Rich's. I really miss that place, so much so I hate doing holiday shopping in Macy's :-(
Did you have a Pink Pig too?

I'll say it again, yikes!

But, here's what you want to hear - you're right!

Now, have a great day!

portiaperu, thanks - and to you, too!

starrs, I guess you didn't click on the hyperlink for "cutting in line" on that website, as there is additional information there which explains further.

exiled, I don't think portiaperu really meant it ;)

And, no...I'm not going to complete any of the homework assignments. Sorry. Not gonna happen :-)