isabel

I'm working on a "Plan B" just in case the f@#*! government shuts down the national parks in August. We have three nights at Ruby's near Bryce, two at the GC North Rim, two in Springdale UT near Zion and two in Mesa Verde. So if the govt forces National Parks to close we are kinda screwed.

So my question is: do they also close National Monuments? My understanding was that Natl Monuments were protected areas, etc but that since State and US highways went through them they couldn't be 'closed'. However in reading up on them I see some of them do have entrance 'fees'. Anyone know the answer to this?

utahtea

You can check what is in the National Park Service Service here http://www.nps.gov/news/loader.cfm?c...&PageID=399498

I noticed that the Escalante-Grand Staircase is not listed. It's managed by the U.S. Dept. of the Interior Bureau of Land Management. I don't think they will be closing Hwy 12 because it's a main road to many cities and there are no park service entrance stations for this area.

I would think that if the National Parks closed, then the national monuments listed in that link would also be closed.

In April we had reservations for Zion and our first night was the night that the budget wasn't going to be passed. We got a call from the park service letting us know that we would have to leave the park that night and we could cancel our reservations without having to pay the cancellation fee. We cancelled because we had a two day drive to get there and didn't want to be evicted on the first night. We ended up rescheduling for two days later after the budget was passed.

Utahtea

isabel

Thanks for that link.

If you include everything though then you essentially 'close' a huge portion of Utah/Arizona/New Mexico. I notice from the maps that many of the roads through those places are State/US highways. How do you 'close' a major road? I can understand that the visitor centers, etc will be closed but would you be able to drive through the national monuments on the state highways? Like as you mention Rt 12. I would also think Rt 9 near Zion would be 'open'. And if that thinking holds, then many of the roads through national monuments might be 'open'. What do you think?

spirobulldog

National Monuments, National Parks, National Rivers, National Seashore, etc. Are all operated by the National Park Service. If a closure happens I don't think it would effect any of the major roads, but all those places would essentially be closed and off limits. This would probably mean anything that The Bureau of Land Managements is responsible for also. I doubt it will come to this, but I know you are thinking worse case scenario.

Utah has a lot of great State Parks, You could even head further north and do so of those in the mountains. So all wouldn't be lost. There would still be a lot to do in Moab. A lot to do in Durango as well.

If this did happen and you could switch your flights, you might consider Oregon. There is a ton to do there and most of those places don't involve the Federal Govmt.

utahtea

This is going to be my best guess and not anything official.

If they close Zion, I would think they would close Hwy 9 between the two entrances because there are entrance stations and they aren't going to want RV's driving thought the tunnel without an escort.

Hwy 12 or 89 in Utah won't be closed because there are so many towns and homes along that routes and no official entrance stations for Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument.

If they close Capitol Reef, I would think they would leave Hwy 24 open and just close the scenic drive. There are no entrance stations to Capitol Reef on Hwy 24 & School buses use Hwy 24.

Utahtea

Myer

utahtea,
I was just wondering about Capitol Reef.

How could they stop hikes on the north side of the highway?

Chimney Rock
Hickman Bridge, etc

Dukey1

Why the Hell don't you call Mr Tanning Salon and Mr. Wimp and ask THEM?

sylvia3

I know Boehner is Mr. Tanning Salon, but who is Mr. Wimp?
Glad I didn't make any reservations for YNP this year.

isabel

Thanks for the replies.

Utahtea - I'm counting on Rt 12 being open so we could go to things on the east side of that - like Willis Creek. I was hoping to go there anyway, if Bryce is closed I guess we'd just have a whole lot more time. I've also read that Rt 12 is a pretty drive so might go further along that. Can you suggest a day trip we could take in that area (we will keep our reservations at Rubys so want to do things we could get to from there without a new reservation somewhere else).

So you don't think the same would hold true for Rt 9 near Zion. What if I were just wanting to drive from Kanab to Springdale - in fact I would want to do that anyway. You think they'd close the road so you'd have to go way around?

Myer - I was wondering the same thing - how can they stop people from walking/hiking along roads. In other words, if we can get pretty close (and in both Zion and Bryce our reservations are not IN the parks but outside them so I assume those places will still be open).

spirobulldog - can you suggest specific state parks in Utah that would be within day trip distance from where we are staying.

If I were going to go to the trouble of changing all my flights, car rentals, hotel reservations (in less than two weeks time) - I wouldn't go to Oregon, I'd go to Italy which is what I should have done in the first place. What I'm trying to do is salvage the trip I already arranged if the worst case happens and I get out there with no access to the parks. I'd rather not spend my vacation sitting in a pizza hut somewhere. At the same time, I don't want to drive three or four hours to a national monument only to find I get can't in there either.

utahtea

We've done Highway 12 from Bryce as a day trip. You also have Kodachrome State Park, the Burr Trail http://www.americansouthwest.net/uta...urr_trail.html, Calif Creek http://www.americansouthwest.net/uta...alf_creek.html. There's plenty to do from Ruby's! You also have Red Canyon http://www.americansouthwest.net/uta...yon/index.html on Hwy 12 west of Ruby's Inn.

RV's over 60 feet and large trucks can not drive though Zion on Route 9, so they have to take Hwy 59 from Hurricane to the Arizona border where it changes to Hwy 389 to Fredonia, then north on Alt 89 to Kanab, Utah. FYI Hilldale, UT and Colorado City, AZ are two polygamous communities so don't plan for services there. This is a scenic drive and you get glimpses of Zion on the way.

I know in Bryce when a trail is closed they have barriers with signs saying so and they also list the steep fine if you are caught on the trail. Not sure I'd recommend trying any hikes in a closed park!

Utahtea

isabel

I don't understand what you mean about "Hilldale, UT and Colorado City, AZ are two polygamous communities so don't plan for services there". What does being polygamous have to do with having services?

And, not that I advocate breaking the 'rules', but if they have laid off all the park employees then who is going to be around to fine you? I would never disobey a sign closing a trail or road because of safety issues, or because they were doing work on it, etc. But this is different. Of course, it would be risky in the sense that there would be no one to come help you if you got hurt, so in that respect it probably isn't a good idea.

utahtea

I don't understand what you mean about "Hilldale, UT and Colorado City, AZ are two polygamous communities so don't plan for services there". What does being polygamous have to do with having services?

It was just information about the area and they are a pretty closed community.

As for the other, I would imagine (and even hope) they would have a skeleton crew watching and policing the parks.

Utahtea

utahtea

Here's some good reading on closing of the National Parks

http://www.npca.org/park_policy/faq-shutdown.html

Check out: Question: How many national parks are there and how many would be shut down?

Answer: There are 394 National Park System units in 49 states. Sadly, the visitor centers, campgrounds, research centers and other facilities at all of these sites would generally be closed in the case of a government shutdown. Front gates will be locked and only the most essential park service personnel will be allowed to report to work. During the last shutdown, only one percent of park staff were able to report to work.

Utahtea

StantonHyde

Google Utah State Parks. Most Utah state parks are around reservoirs so lots of fishing and boating, but there are others as well. The goutah site should be good. Moab would be a good bet--lots of alternate stuff to do there. Escalante has fewer services than Moab but there certainly is hiking to do there. Or stay at Boulder Mountain Lodge.

I wouldn't do anything in southern Utah in the summer because it is so hot. I would come on up to Park City or stay at one of the ski resorts and hike the mountains. Or go up to Logan and Bear Lake. Durango would be good too.

isabel

utahtea - thank you so much for all your information, it really is helping me out a lot.

So now my plan B from Bryce looks pretty good: Kodachrome St Park, Willis Creek, Cottonwood Canyon Rd to Grosvenor Arch and Round Valley Draw; Around Escalante is Lower Calf Creek Falls and Burr Trail (Death Hollows Slot). Am I correct that all those places will be accessible. It seems that could easily fill our two to two and a half days that we are staying at Rubys.

I haven't figured out much to do with our two days in Springdale especially if Rt 9 through Zion is closed.

And I have really no idea what to do with the two days we were going to spend in the GC north rim. If we're on Plan B then those two nights lodging is also gone. I was thinking Page and Antelope Canyon but a quick check shows most of the chain hotels in Page are full the two nights we need. So now am completely lost as to what to do. Canyon de Chelly looks really good but I'm think that is more likely to be 'closed' as there is an entrance fee even though it's a monument not a park and isn't it on Navaho land? Any thoughts about that?

utahtea

Cottonwood Canyon Road is a dirt road so do not enter if it is raining, looks like rain or has recently rained. This road could possible be closed. We ran into road closure here after a big storm once. I can see the park service closing spur road off Cottonwood to Grosvenor Arch to keep from being liable for any accidents. Your best bet would be to check that day with the BLM office in Cannonville. http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/grand...or_Center.html Be aware that there is no cell service out on Cottonwood Canyon Road!

You will see some of Zion from Springdale which is nice. You might try renting a inter-tube in Springdale and floating down the Virgin River. They pick you up a couple miles down the road. It's a lot of fun,it's scenic and a way to keep cool on a hot day.

Canyon de Chelly is a National Monument, BUT you can't enter the canyon unless you are escorted by a native American Indian, so this is a question you will probably have to call the park about.

Utahtea

utahtea

Forgot to mention on Canyon de Chelly is a National Monument, you can drive the scenic drive on your own when the park is open.

yentakvetch

If there is no agreement on raising the debt limit, it is clear that National Parks will be subject to closures. The only thing open would be monuments that are unamenable to closure such as the Lincoln Memorial. It would be open without Park Rangers and maybe without security as well.

isabel

Thanks utahtea - I appreciate the information. Unfortunately it sounds like most of the things we'd want to do would not be possible or safe. Even if Cottonwood Canyon Road is open, it will be August and isn't that thunderstorm season? So it would probably not be a good idea to be driving out on those roads anyway what with chance of rain, no cell service. Hmmmm. Guess I actually need a Plan C that bypasses Utah/Arizona all together. Urrrrrrr. But thanks again for all your help.

Myer

Ten miles down Hole-in-the Rock_Road is Devil's Garden Escalante (not to be confused with Devil's Garden in Arches NP). I describe it as a slightly grown up (larger rock formations) Goblin Valley.

While that's a dirt road, it's a very smooth and level road.

It's really not very far from the Lower Calf Creek Falls turnoff.

I was there with my daughter last September. We started the day in Devil's Garden (having slept in Escalente) and after spending a couple of hours photographing Devil's Garden drove to Lower Calf Creek Falls for the hike there.

After that hot hike we drove the Cannonville and then to Willis Creek (this drive is a bit of an adventure - sandy, hilly and somewhat curvy but at least they now have a sign at the parking lot and there are very few cars on that road so you have both sides to yourself). Once at Willis Creek it's an easy 5 minute walk to the creek and the hike is level and smooth. Just make sure you go to at least 5 slots as they get progressively higher and more impressive.

From there we drove to Bryce and just missed sunset. A full and tiring day.