Patrick

Whoa, TopMan, that sure wasn't my question -- but you've summarized my answer -- which was almost as long-winded as Frances! Thank you for that.

Tandoori_Girl

GoTravel, thanks for all that information.

Anonymous, it sounds like you're saying FEMA doesn't give anything away. It has only loans. Grants.

Bonnie, take note to those two.

Brian_in_Charlotte

GoTravel, is that a Florida rule about not being able to rebuild if 50% is destroyed? In NC you can rebuild as long as you can still meet the minumum setback.

Alisa

Got to agree with you Bonnie. Reminds me of the hospital patients I will see today--all of them uninsured, many of them wearing $100 Nikes, using expensive cell phones........

I guess you have to take the good with the bad so the people who really need help get it.....

GoTravel

I don't know what the rules are in Florida. I think it also has something to do with the mean high tide line.

Didn't y'all go through a bunch of mess with Topsoil Island and beach erosion?

I would try not to judge these people. You never really know what is going on until you walk in their shoes.

Jayne11159

Brian,

I don't know about that, but in our county on the west coast of Florida, if you renovate a waterfront property, the cost cannot exceed half the value of the property. I don't know if that's a statewide law.

Patrick

Wow, Jayne that certainly isn't true in Naples where one beachfront property was purchased a couple years ago for just over $3 million, was rebuilt and is now in the neighborhood of $40 million. I don't think anybody renovates here for anything less than triple or more the value.

Brian_in_Charlotte

I think the 50% cutoff determines whether it's a repair or a rebuild. If the home damage totals more than 50% of the home's value, then the home cannot be repaired, only rebuilt. And to be rebuilt, one has to secure a permit, which can be turned down if certain conditions (most importantly minimum setback) aren't met.

But it seems it is possible to rebuild even if the home is 50% destroyed, as long as the new, tougher, minimum setback can be met.

Jayne11159

Our county has some strange codes. We live in the city and renovating was a breeze permit-wise. It makes a huge difference when your house is across the street from the river, and not right on the river. Our next-door neighbors are required to have flood insurance and we are not.

We recently purchased a home in the county that we're getting ready to renovate and add to so that my dad can come live with us; the county is telling us that we MUST have one fully equipped handicap bathroom in order to get a permit. In our case it's fine. My dad is 85 and very spry; DH and I will probably need a handicap bath long before him, but in either case at least we'll have it. I don't think younger couples with children would be okay with that.

I do know that people get around the 50% rule. For instance, it doesn't apply if you stay within the original foot print of the house. I also believe that if you leave at least one room (or it may be two rooms) with the original four walls the 50% rule doesn't apply. In that case, I know that most leave up the walls and then down they come after their final inspection.

bonniebroad

Geesh! My original post was prompted by my niece's friends who make 40K per year, pick up their coffee at Starbucks every morning, but don't bother to insure their property because (they say) the government helps them if they get wiped out! And basically I said I resent people not taking responsibility and not paying for insured (that they can afford), and taking advantage of the rest of us who budget other items so we CAN pay our insurance......... and then in the end, we pay for EVERYBODY, including those who don't bother to insure. I think some of you are jumping ugly at me for saying and thinking something that I DID NOT say or think!!! Whatever........... have a nice evening, everybody!

bonniebroad

Oops! Meant to say "not paying for insurance" ...... not "insured"

Jayne11159

bonniebroad,

I think we're all just pretty stressed having just gone through this storm.

Orcas

If you want to know about the National Flood Insurance Program and Disaster Assistance, both administered by FEMA, why not contact FEMA? I'm sure you can find their phone number on-line. Here is some information from FEMA's website on the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP):

http://www.fema.gov/nfip/whonfip.shtm

I worked for FEMA for a few years, in the branch that administered the National Flood Insurance Program. My understanding was that the federal government would underwrite flood insurance in communities that participated in the NFIP. This would reduce the cost to homeowners. For a community to participate, it had to adopt and enforce certain development standards that were designed to protect the community and property in the event of flooding.

Unfortunately, politics did enter into this program. Staff would find communities out of compliance on occasion, and recommend the community be dropped from the program but would be overruled as politics entered (US Senators working it out with the President who oversaw the Program, as FEMA was an Executive Agency).

I think the thing to be most concerned about is not that people are receiving help to ensure their living conditions are safe and healthy. The concern is if the government continues to allow communities to participate in the NFIP even if the community is allowing developers to violate the standards of the program. While this may make developers rich, it puts people in harm's way and costs the taxpayers money that should not have to be spent.

KT

While FEMA may help in the event of a hurricane, it won't help homeowners if they have a house fire, or a truck rams into the house, or in any other situation that's not declared a national emergency. Does that make you feel any better?

KT

BTW, FEMA grants are limited to 25K. Not peanuts, but not exactly enough to cover total destruction, or even major destruction, of a house. Not really an adequate susbtitute for insurance.

Tandoori_Girl

Grants, loans, Bonnie. No one's giving money out. In light of the fact that many of us are still coping with the remnants of Tropical Storm Frances (it was not a hurricane when it hit Tampa) I guess people are a little touchy. Understandably.

Cerlaurie

Bonnie, your niece's friend doesn't have a mortgage on his property? Like GoTravel said you have to have insurance if you have a mortgage. I am, however, surprised that there are people that have no mortgage and choose not to insure their home or property.

I think health insurance is a little different - many people work for small companies making minimum wage and can't afford to pay for health insurance. I agree that if that is the case they shouldn't be walking around in $100 Nikes though.

Patrick

"I think health insurance is a little different - many people work for small companies making minimum wage and can't afford to pay for health insurance."

I'm sorry, but I don't get the above statement. Those same people with those same minimum wage salaries CAN afford to pay for flood insurance and SHOULD, but can't afford to pay for health insurance and DON'T????? Statistically speaking they are far more likely to get ill than they are to get hit by a flood. If I were in their shoes (not the $100 Nikes)and had to make a choice, I would choose getting the health insurance over the flood insurance any day.

Floridafran

For those of you who had questions regarding the 50% rule. I'm looking at a FEMA publication we were given for a continuing education class I took (I'm a residential home builder).

SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE: Pre-FIRM buildings must be elevated if damaged by any cause for which repair costs are 50% or more of the value of the building. The lowest habitable floor must be elevated above the 100 year flood elevation.

SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMNET: When a pre-FIRM building is proposed to be remodeled, renovated, rehabilitated, added to, or in any way improved, the proposed modifications must be evaluated for "substantial improvement." If the total costs of improvements are more than 50%, the same rules for elevating apply.

I'm sure if you go to the FEMA website you can check out the 50% rule. There's all sorts of stuff about what constitutes the "value of the building."

As a side note. I don't know what FEMA does or doesn't do for the uninsured, but I can tell you from personal experience (OPAL - 1995) what they do and don't do for those of us who have flood insurance and live in piling houses. They pay to have exterior stairs repaired so you can get into your house, they pay minimum wage for someone to clean debris from under your house (does not include the yard), and if you have damage to or above the floor that is above the flood elevation, they pay for that. It used to be that they would also pay for washer/dryer, frig, freezer on the ground floor level but they've pretty much eliminated that, I think.

A non-piling house is a whole different animal. They cover things on the ground floor but the 50% rule comes into play.

As one who pays dearly for insurance, I hope Bonniebroad has been misinformed about these non-insurers.

Jayne11159

Floridafran,

That's good information since they've shifted Ivan's track towards Florida--lots of room for error there thank goodness.

All new homes and renovations here are not allowed to have any living spaces on the first floor if they're below a specified sea level.