au contraire, environmentalists will never go obsolete, because it's such an easy thing for a non-thinker to be. All you have to do is feel.

FEEL sorry for the rodents, FEEL like you are doing something, FEEL superior to others.

Thinking about what you're actually saying, thinking about your own hypocrital guzzling of energy, thinking about what the alternatives are to your NIMB knee-jerking, thinking about the fact that you might not really know what you're talking about, thinking that they don't want to explore all of ANWR...just a very small percentage, thinking that attemps at alternative energy forms have been mostly failures....that's stuff's no fun at all! Where's the drama in that?

okay...... if we can't exploit our own oil resources, can't go to war to secure foreign sourcing, can't burn coal because of pollution/greenhouse effect, can't develop hydro because dams kill fish, too much risk in nuclear.... until alternate energy sources are discovered/developed to the point of replacing current ones, what exactly does your picture of this country look like?

These decisions are not made in a vacuum nor are they made by the electorate. They are made by those who already have a lot of money to buy Washington but who feel they need more. 200,000 signatures have the impact of a bat's eyelash compared to the juggernaut of the vested interests. That's how it's been going, and that's how it's all going to go. It's no longer political other than the simple fact of throwing weight around to gild the status quo for the oil industry. The rest of it is just protesting squealing that Washington and industry can utterly ignore. Which they do.

travelinwifey, I'm w/you on this one.

Litespeed_Chick - What a lovely stereotype of an entire group of people as non-thinkers! Here's a notion for you - some people have this amazing ability to both think AND feel. Sorry to hear that you don't.

And I find it comically oxymoronic for one to complain that enivronmentalists
"FEEL superior to others" in the same post that you put them all down as non-thinkers (clearly indicating that you are the one who indeed believes yourself to be superior).

I don't agree with the drilling in Alaska because it doesn't solve the problem. We need an alternative source of fuel. I wish the government would increase the gas tax by $1 a gallon. It would more than pay for the war in Iraq and all road construction in the country, and the people in SUV's would be screaming at the car manufactures to build more fuel efficient cars. The problem???? No one would vote for a politician that would raise the price of gas. Dead issue!

the debate isn't over whether or not we need to develop alternative sources of energy.. that's clear. we need to. the debate is over what's to be done in the meantime that won't result in economic, environmental, or human disaster, all the while maintaining the standard of living to which we've become accustomed. anyone have any good ideas?

Yes, Snowrooster I think we're a lot alike we just got our lines crossed the other day:)

I am trying very hard to keep away from this thread because it is something I feel strongly about.

I and a partner had some great ideas, but I don't notice a chorus of answers, uuuuh, on this board. In fact none in almost exactly an hour. It is just so much easier to whine, get angry/name call, fight, and especially blame. That's really thinking, isn't it.

Truck tires were our product and we also ended up developing a process to shred and reuse them as they are a terrible disposal problem for all kinds of reasons (many became road surfaces). And like ours, most R&D is developed by small business, and yet can't bloom because of all the other governmental red tape and costs.We couldn't even afford a part time accountant or the needed software for the first three years- yet had to fight "taxes" against a P.O. mailbox, as a "second" workplace etc.etc. etc. Wasted time, wasted resources to dense governmental beauracracy. Large grants, large business, they tend to develop what is already a huge part of their own agendas.

So if you want great R&D and a new energy source, you can not put a thumb on small business and the entrepreneur innovator. Since the late 80's that thumb has been like a vise. They can not exist in the forums with OSHA regs, work/comp, local tax strictures, etc. etc. etc. It is very, very difficult.

If you drive a car, want AC, fly in planes as a given, you need to find a way to do that clean.

If I posted my thoughts JJ5, it would definitely start a war!

Maybe if entrepeneurs and small business owners could afford health care there would be more of them. But that's another topic entirely.

thank you for at least trying, JJ5. yes.... we're in a difficult spot when the only ones with resources to solve the problems are those whom we, for whatever reason, distrust the most.