Bringing your Own Wine to a NYC Restaurant
Jul 28th, 2010, 08:51 AM
#62
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"I am finding it hard to understand what is unacceptable about what the guests did."
Okay, how about cheap? Or, as someone upthread said, "insulting" or worse. It's little/no different than being gifted a bottle of wine by a restaurant owner, then taking the same bottle to his/her restaurant to avoid the cost having to order from the wine list. That's a fine way to thank someone. So I go back to my original statement: unacceptable.
Okay, how about cheap? Or, as someone upthread said, "insulting" or worse. It's little/no different than being gifted a bottle of wine by a restaurant owner, then taking the same bottle to his/her restaurant to avoid the cost having to order from the wine list. That's a fine way to thank someone. So I go back to my original statement: unacceptable.
Jul 28th, 2010, 01:38 PM
#63
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Neo - Apparently you have no problem with the guy charging $50 for a wine he paid $8 for. Sort of makes other restaurant owners who charge about $30 for that wine (or less) look like shmucks. Then again - there are some customers who believe that a higher priced wine is a wine they will enjoy more - a better wine - so they go for it. Many taste tests have shown that people can hardly distinguish between a lower priced wine and a high priced one.
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:51 PM
#64
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jroth, yes you are right. I have no problem with the guy charging any amount that people are willing to pay. Nor do I feel sorry for some "schmuck" as you call them who pays that inflated price thinking he's getting a better wine than he is. Nor am I going to lose any sleep over someone buying an overpriced wine when he can't appreciate or distinquish its true value. Once again -- it's called basic retail 101: the smart retailer gets as much as the public is willing to pay.
The "stupid" retailer is the one who lowers the prices when people are happily filling up his place paying the prices he's been charging. No one says the public is as smart as the retailer in some cases.
But jroth, you never responded to my other example. So you think if you had a house that was worth a million dollars and some "schumck" wanted to buy it for 2 million, you'd say, "oh no, it's not worth that. I'll just take 1 million thank you." Sorry, such action may make you feel good about yourself, but if you did that I'd have to call you a "stupid" homeseller.
The "stupid" retailer is the one who lowers the prices when people are happily filling up his place paying the prices he's been charging. No one says the public is as smart as the retailer in some cases.
But jroth, you never responded to my other example. So you think if you had a house that was worth a million dollars and some "schumck" wanted to buy it for 2 million, you'd say, "oh no, it's not worth that. I'll just take 1 million thank you." Sorry, such action may make you feel good about yourself, but if you did that I'd have to call you a "stupid" homeseller.
Jul 28th, 2010, 06:40 PM
#65
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>>But jroth, you never responded to my other example. So you think if you had a house that was worth a million dollars and some "schumck" wanted to buy it for 2 million, you'd say, "oh no, it's not worth that. I'll just take 1 million thank you.">>
I have some news for you: I recently sold my house. Strangely enough I thought it was worth a million dollars. I didn't exactly have buyers insisting I take 2 million - the reality was - I had to take less than the 1M. Because that was the correct market price as my broker explained to me. BTW - I did not refer to the payer of the $8 dollar wine as a shmuck for paying $50 - I referred to other restaurant owners who handled the same wine and like shmucks they only charged $30 or so.
I have some news for you: I recently sold my house. Strangely enough I thought it was worth a million dollars. I didn't exactly have buyers insisting I take 2 million - the reality was - I had to take less than the 1M. Because that was the correct market price as my broker explained to me. BTW - I did not refer to the payer of the $8 dollar wine as a shmuck for paying $50 - I referred to other restaurant owners who handled the same wine and like shmucks they only charged $30 or so.
Jul 28th, 2010, 07:56 PM
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As i see it, both arguments are valid, as a business owner, they can charge what they want and as a customer, if you know a $15 wine is being charrged at $60 then you feel you're being ripped off, and it can spoil an evening if you order the wine.
What I don't agree with is that Neo calling people cheap if they go into a BYOB restaurant with a low price wine. As a customer I can bring what I want to drink, not what the waiter or owner thinks is an adequate wine, thats just plain snobbery
I also agree with Tom42, I don't see a problem with drinking the wine I was given by the hotel if BYOB is allowed, in fact I'd make a point of thanking them for it and I would comment on how much I've been looking forward to enjoying it with my meal.
Geordie
What I don't agree with is that Neo calling people cheap if they go into a BYOB restaurant with a low price wine. As a customer I can bring what I want to drink, not what the waiter or owner thinks is an adequate wine, thats just plain snobbery
I also agree with Tom42, I don't see a problem with drinking the wine I was given by the hotel if BYOB is allowed, in fact I'd make a point of thanking them for it and I would comment on how much I've been looking forward to enjoying it with my meal.
Geordie
Jul 29th, 2010, 04:20 AM
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Tartine in the West Village is a popular BYOB restuarant:
http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/tartine/
NY Mag has a list by neighborhood:
http://nymag.com/nightlife/articles/byob/#soho_noho
http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/tartine/
NY Mag has a list by neighborhood:
http://nymag.com/nightlife/articles/byob/#soho_noho
Jul 29th, 2010, 04:51 AM
#69
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Geordie, you have totally misinterpreted me. I never made a comment about being cheap because you take any price wine to a BYOB restaurant. Please go back and read. At the time we were talking about regular restaurants which make their profit on selling wines. This is what I said:
"I maintain that it is just as justifiable for me to believe it is "cheap" to take your own wine (unless it is really something special) to a restaurant that makes its profit on selling wine -- as it is for someone to think doing so is fine."
And I'll still maintain that such a person IS being cheap. Wasn't that the whole point of taking the wine because the person doesn't want to pay a high price. That's what being cheap is. You may prefer the word "thrifty" or "frugal" but I'll call it just what it is. This whole thread is about being cheap by taking your own wine to avoid high prices. It was asking how to be cheap. If you want to assume being cheap is a bad thing, that's your prerogative, but let's call it what it is -- avoiding higher prices by doing something to save money is simply the definition of being cheap!
"I maintain that it is just as justifiable for me to believe it is "cheap" to take your own wine (unless it is really something special) to a restaurant that makes its profit on selling wine -- as it is for someone to think doing so is fine."
And I'll still maintain that such a person IS being cheap. Wasn't that the whole point of taking the wine because the person doesn't want to pay a high price. That's what being cheap is. You may prefer the word "thrifty" or "frugal" but I'll call it just what it is. This whole thread is about being cheap by taking your own wine to avoid high prices. It was asking how to be cheap. If you want to assume being cheap is a bad thing, that's your prerogative, but let's call it what it is -- avoiding higher prices by doing something to save money is simply the definition of being cheap!
Jul 29th, 2010, 05:20 AM
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Would you also call the buyers for Wal Mart - cheap? After all, that's all they do in their buying practices - avoid high prices. If the restaurant invites BYO - there can be reasons other than "cheapness" for bringing your own.. E.G. you prefer certain wines with your dinner or you prefer to pay a corkage for a bottle that cost you $60 but could be up to $200 or more at the restaurant - is that "cheap"? I think weshould be a little slow in slamming someone with that word especially if you know nothing about their financial status. If Bill Gates walked in with a $15 bottle of wine to save some money - I'd call that cheap. If you tip 10% - that's cheap. A policy of avoiding higher prices is just not necessarily "cheap".
Would you also call the buyers for Wal Mart - cheap? After all, that's all they do in their buying practices - avoid high prices. If the restaurant invites BYO - there can be reasons other than "cheapness" for bringing your own.. E.G. you prefer certain wines with your dinner or you prefer to pay a corkage for a bottle that cost you $60 but could be up to $200 or more at the restaurant - is that "cheap"? I think weshould be a little slow in slamming someone with that word especially if you know nothing about their financial status. If Bill Gates walked in with a $15 bottle of wine to save some money - I'd call that cheap. If you tip 10% - that's cheap. A policy of avoiding higher prices is just not necessarily "cheap".
Jul 29th, 2010, 05:48 AM
#71
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"Would you also call the buyers for Wal Mart - cheap?"
Yes, I would and I do -- including myself. I buy many of my "staples" at Walmart and I'm not the least bit offended by calling myself cheap for doing so. In fact I say to friends all the time something like "I did my cheap trip to Walmart today." There are some things I don't mind being cheap about and some I am PERSONALLY not comfortable being cheap about.
I guess the problem is simply semantics. And some cheap people are embarrassed about their own frugality. I am not regarding some things, but I personally would be bothered by getting dressed up, going to a nice restaurant, and take out by 2 buck Chuck and ask them to open it for me. If you are not bothered by that, fine -- do it. But don't be shocked that the waiters and other patrons will regard you as cheap -- you are. Just as I am too cheap to pay double prices for toilet paper at my local super market, and not embarrassed if someone says I'm cheap to do that.
Not buying toilet paper at your local supermarket but going somewhere else because they sell it for less is just like not buying wine in a restaurant because they mark it up too much. We seem to be back to my original point. If you don't want to buy wine at a place because their prices are too high, then don't. Or don't go there at all. Simple answer. Or if you aren't bothered by being looked at for being cheap, then take a cheap bottle to the restaurant and have the waiter smirk at you while he opens it. Go for it. I have never said you couldn't or shouldn't do that -- I merely said from the start it was a concept I don't understand. And I've even suggested that the waiters probably shouldn't regard you with disdain, but the fact of the matter is THEY WILL. If that doesn't bother you, then fine.
And the question still remains. If you think a business is ripping off its customers, why on earth would you go back?
If you aren't bothered by taking your own wine then do so. My first post here was merely to show that SOME people don't like to do that (myself included). I said it was a concept I didn't understand. It's called an opinion. I am still entitled to that opinion the same as those who like to take their own wine are entitled to theirs. What is the problem?
Yes, I would and I do -- including myself. I buy many of my "staples" at Walmart and I'm not the least bit offended by calling myself cheap for doing so. In fact I say to friends all the time something like "I did my cheap trip to Walmart today." There are some things I don't mind being cheap about and some I am PERSONALLY not comfortable being cheap about.
I guess the problem is simply semantics. And some cheap people are embarrassed about their own frugality. I am not regarding some things, but I personally would be bothered by getting dressed up, going to a nice restaurant, and take out by 2 buck Chuck and ask them to open it for me. If you are not bothered by that, fine -- do it. But don't be shocked that the waiters and other patrons will regard you as cheap -- you are. Just as I am too cheap to pay double prices for toilet paper at my local super market, and not embarrassed if someone says I'm cheap to do that.
Not buying toilet paper at your local supermarket but going somewhere else because they sell it for less is just like not buying wine in a restaurant because they mark it up too much. We seem to be back to my original point. If you don't want to buy wine at a place because their prices are too high, then don't. Or don't go there at all. Simple answer. Or if you aren't bothered by being looked at for being cheap, then take a cheap bottle to the restaurant and have the waiter smirk at you while he opens it. Go for it. I have never said you couldn't or shouldn't do that -- I merely said from the start it was a concept I don't understand. And I've even suggested that the waiters probably shouldn't regard you with disdain, but the fact of the matter is THEY WILL. If that doesn't bother you, then fine.
And the question still remains. If you think a business is ripping off its customers, why on earth would you go back?
If you aren't bothered by taking your own wine then do so. My first post here was merely to show that SOME people don't like to do that (myself included). I said it was a concept I didn't understand. It's called an opinion. I am still entitled to that opinion the same as those who like to take their own wine are entitled to theirs. What is the problem?
Jul 29th, 2010, 06:05 AM
#72
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Again - precisely my point. The restaurant that charges $50 for an $8 bottle of wine - and you consider that good business practice since he is getting the highest possible price for an item - I call that ripping off the customer. That policy does not generate return business - thus not good business practice. If I sold TV sets and put out a Sony for $1200 and the same model sells elsewhere for $800 - I'm not going to sell too many of those - but I might get one sucker who buys it. But - I grant wine is different - there are thousands of labels so odds are a customer will not be familiar with a lot of stuff on a wine list (re pricing) - so it's easier to scam a customer re wine. Doesn't make it right.
Again - precisely my point. The restaurant that charges $50 for an $8 bottle of wine - and you consider that good business practice since he is getting the highest possible price for an item - I call that ripping off the customer. That policy does not generate return business - thus not good business practice. If I sold TV sets and put out a Sony for $1200 and the same model sells elsewhere for $800 - I'm not going to sell too many of those - but I might get one sucker who buys it. But - I grant wine is different - there are thousands of labels so odds are a customer will not be familiar with a lot of stuff on a wine list (re pricing) - so it's easier to scam a customer re wine. Doesn't make it right.
Jul 29th, 2010, 06:07 AM
#73
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Not buying toilet paper at your local supermarket but going somewhere else because they sell it for less is just like not buying wine in a restaurant because they mark it up too much.
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I'll have the '78 White Charmin.
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I'll have the '78 White Charmin.
Jul 29th, 2010, 06:24 AM
#74
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Being the OP of this thread, and watching how it has turned nasty, apologetic, gone off on different tangents, etc. I would like to say the following :
I do NOT consider myself cheap. I had NO intention of going into a fancy shmancy restaurant (I wrote that I do not frequent such establishments) bringing two buck chuck (heck, who loves a good bottle of wine and would drink that in the first place?). I do not believe that mark-ups of $50 for an $8 bottle of wine are ANYTHING but rip-offs, no matter who says it is good business practice (why is it good business practice? because I will tell everyone and spread the "good news"?)
And I wholeheartedly agree with Adu - if you go elsewhere for your toilet paper, it is JUST like not buying wine in your restaurant of choice. However, you STILL want to go to your restaurant of choice? BYOB - that is the answer.
I do NOT consider myself cheap. I had NO intention of going into a fancy shmancy restaurant (I wrote that I do not frequent such establishments) bringing two buck chuck (heck, who loves a good bottle of wine and would drink that in the first place?). I do not believe that mark-ups of $50 for an $8 bottle of wine are ANYTHING but rip-offs, no matter who says it is good business practice (why is it good business practice? because I will tell everyone and spread the "good news"?)
And I wholeheartedly agree with Adu - if you go elsewhere for your toilet paper, it is JUST like not buying wine in your restaurant of choice. However, you STILL want to go to your restaurant of choice? BYOB - that is the answer.
Jul 29th, 2010, 07:44 AM
#75
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Flame, I have no idea why you say this has turned nasty -- it's called a discussion and I think it has been a pretty tame and harmless one. Yes, some of us have varying opinions.
But I think the funniest thing of all is that you say you "wholeheartedly agree with Auduchamp" yet seem to resent everything I say here, even though I am clearly saying it is just my opinion. But you do realize, don't you, that the statement Auduchamp made was MY direct quote -- he just failed to use quotation marks. So you agree with him when HE says it, but not with ME when I say it? What gives here?
And Flame, please realize that open discussions are just that -- you seem to feel that everything said here is a direct slam at you. The whole two buck chuck thing had nothing to do with you, that was brought up by someone else. Nothing said here was meant to insult you. If you are insulted simply because someone has a different opinion than you and if you call expressing those opinions being nasty, then honestly, maybe you should rethink about posting on a public discussion board.
As to "good business practices" -- if a place is making a fortune, then it IS a good business practice. Pure and simple. If it is a BAD business practice and they go out of business, then that is a whole different thing. There is little doubt that Per Se has way "overpriced" food and wine by nearly everyone's standards. But it is wildly popular because SOME people love it and are willing to pay that. There are surely some tasting dishes they sell that have literally less than a dollar's worth of ingredients that they sell for over $20. You seem to be saying they practice bad business because they should lower all their prices even though they are wildly successful and they could exist on a lower profit margin. Sorry, I just don't get that idea. That simply is not how business operates.
But I think the funniest thing of all is that you say you "wholeheartedly agree with Auduchamp" yet seem to resent everything I say here, even though I am clearly saying it is just my opinion. But you do realize, don't you, that the statement Auduchamp made was MY direct quote -- he just failed to use quotation marks. So you agree with him when HE says it, but not with ME when I say it? What gives here?
And Flame, please realize that open discussions are just that -- you seem to feel that everything said here is a direct slam at you. The whole two buck chuck thing had nothing to do with you, that was brought up by someone else. Nothing said here was meant to insult you. If you are insulted simply because someone has a different opinion than you and if you call expressing those opinions being nasty, then honestly, maybe you should rethink about posting on a public discussion board.
As to "good business practices" -- if a place is making a fortune, then it IS a good business practice. Pure and simple. If it is a BAD business practice and they go out of business, then that is a whole different thing. There is little doubt that Per Se has way "overpriced" food and wine by nearly everyone's standards. But it is wildly popular because SOME people love it and are willing to pay that. There are surely some tasting dishes they sell that have literally less than a dollar's worth of ingredients that they sell for over $20. You seem to be saying they practice bad business because they should lower all their prices even though they are wildly successful and they could exist on a lower profit margin. Sorry, I just don't get that idea. That simply is not how business operates.
Jul 29th, 2010, 08:13 AM
#76
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Some places are not selling the steak, they are selling the sizzle. Some people are delighted to buy the sizzle. Some prefer a big hunk o' meat. It's a great country where you have the choice!
A business that survives and succeeds is by definition using good business practices -- for its niche. NeoPatrick is certainly right about that.
A business that survives and succeeds is by definition using good business practices -- for its niche. NeoPatrick is certainly right about that.
Jul 29th, 2010, 08:42 AM
#77
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Neo - OK my turn to apologize. I did not see that indeed the quote that I agreed with in Adu's answer was originally yours (sorry!!) I indeed agree with that and so I DO AGREE with you. I do not feel personally insulted, believe me. I asked some questions, got some good answers from people, and then just "watched from the sidelines" and saw where this thread went. Yes you ARE correct, everyone is entitled to his opinion and I realize they are ONLY everyone's humble opinion. I have NO problem with that, and NO problem with you. Wanna meet for a drink? LOL.
Oh and by the way, Per Se is EXACTLY one of those establishments that would NEVER EVER get my business. Not my style and too snotty for me. I would NEVER begrudge someone ELSE who wanted to go there and enjoyed it. Just not my cup of tea (or bottle of wine?)
Oh and by the way, Per Se is EXACTLY one of those establishments that would NEVER EVER get my business. Not my style and too snotty for me. I would NEVER begrudge someone ELSE who wanted to go there and enjoyed it. Just not my cup of tea (or bottle of wine?)
Jul 29th, 2010, 09:02 AM
#78
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Thank you very much Flame. I know some here think I'm way overly argumentative. But I feel if a person has an opinion and expresses it, why walk away when that opinion is questioned or challenged. If the opinion is worth having, then it is worth explaining and "defending" if need be. It doesn't mean you're going to change the other person's mind, but at least it's good if you can make that person understand your point of view, even if he's not going to agree with it.
But that was a wonderful and sincere apology -- which wasn't even necessary in my opinion. Again it was only a discussion here --not a war. People should also be aware that someone expressing an opinion is NOT necessarily making a personal slam against them. I have bold disagreements here with some people whose opinions I hold in the highest regard. I do not always agree with even my very best friends, so why should I pretend to agree with a stranger?
A drink? Sure, I'm out the door in a few minutes -- starting my 2 and a half month trip to Asia. Maybe that's why I've been unusually on edge the last couple of days. Where shall we meet for that drink? Let's not make it anywhere where they'll overcharge us!!! LOL
But that was a wonderful and sincere apology -- which wasn't even necessary in my opinion. Again it was only a discussion here --not a war. People should also be aware that someone expressing an opinion is NOT necessarily making a personal slam against them. I have bold disagreements here with some people whose opinions I hold in the highest regard. I do not always agree with even my very best friends, so why should I pretend to agree with a stranger?
A drink? Sure, I'm out the door in a few minutes -- starting my 2 and a half month trip to Asia. Maybe that's why I've been unusually on edge the last couple of days. Where shall we meet for that drink? Let's not make it anywhere where they'll overcharge us!!! LOL
