Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - Behavior at the movies, etc.

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By the way, this is my last post on this forum for a few days as I leave tomorrow for Europe. (Not Africa, as some of you would no doubt believe). I'll have eight glorious days revisiting Amsterdam, London and Berlin. Yes, we DO travel to Europe!

I just stumbled upon this thread but have to say YOU GO ADAM!

Paul, what an interesting theory. But you're in trouble before you even get started, because you only quote half of the dictionary definition of racism. To quote Websters, the definition of racism includes "racial prejudice or discrimination." Now, using the half-definition you cite, your theory is that racism is only observing a trait and generalizing it over a whole population of the race if we are saying the person was born that way. So under that theory, it would NOT be racist to say American blacks are uneducated, because we're not talking about how they were born, we're just making an observation about book learning. Indeed, if Adam and I know some blacks who are uneducated, then there's a grain of truth in the observation, so neither Adam nor I should be offended by the statement. I submit that African Americans (and others) would and should find the statement racist. This narrow definition of racism you propose certainly leads to odd results. One could observe that black males smuggle drugs on I-95 on the East Coast. One could then decide that black males should be pulled over more often than whites because they might be smuggling drugs. The tendency to smuggle drug is not inborn, so such disparate treatment wouldn't be racist. Hmmm. So, I think that racism includes the observation of a trait or behavior, often coupled with the decision to behave or think differently about other memmbers of the group based on preconceived notion. Frankly, I don't see what we're arguing about. Getting back to Adam, he seems not to see why it is offensive to complain about the movie habits of blacks but not whites. Perhaps Adam has really never seen whites behave poorly at the movies, and this accounts for his statement. Then I would suggest that he really doesn't have the info to make a judgment either way. Put differently, wouldn't it be silly of me to say that it is only white teens who act up at the movies because those are the only people I've seen acting up in my movie theatre? Anyway, I hope this discussion hasn't offended anyone. I know we're way off of travel, but I thought the issues were of sufficient import to warrant a response. Have a nice weekend.

Adam: Have a wonderful time in Europe. You're a man with an independent mind and seem to be on very solid footing from what I can tell. I applaud you for holding your ground. Oaktown T: what an inappropriate comment: "...you and Clarence Thomas are not so black after all..." You are in really deep water here. So all black men are supposed to exhibit a like set of behaviors and ways of thinking? Else they're really not black? Please explain to me how this is not the ultimate in hypocrisy, to try to rail against racism on the one hand and then to thrash Adam for not "acting black"!?! You've been caught up in your own noose. Cindy: if you carry the argument regarding the definition of racism to the extreme, you're left with the debate over what constitutes socially relevant 'racism'. Technically, identifying any characteristic unique to a race is a racist exercise. To identify people of a particular race based on physical features, such as skin color, eye shape, hair type etc, is racist. Is it derogatory? No. Is it an undeniable reality that we all differ by race? Yes. This, of course, is not a relevant definition of racism for the purposes of the discussion here. The pertinent definition of racism relates to the social consequences of the practice of racist stereotypes. Police officers who utilize racial profiling (based on negative racist stereotypes) inconvenience and penalize members of the targeted race who have committed no crimes. In a sense, damage is done to innocent persons because of the racist belief. So in the end, one is left with a semantic argument about which type of racism one is decrying. I would contend that no reasonable individual would argue that acknowledging the difference in eye shape between Asians and Scots, while technically racist, is problematic for society. But if you want to be academic, that is racism. I believe the preceding debate was about the socially relevant definition of racism.

Adam: Above all HAVE A GREAT TRIP!!!!!!!!! Your trip sounds great. Thank you for your response. For whatever it means I have only traveled to Morocco, Fez, and Casablanca as for Africa. I never "believed" that you would be going to Africa. Harwick: You are right about The Clarence Thomas analogy. I also concede that I do not have enough information about Adam to really say what he "acts" like. Additionally I never said "act Black" as no such thing exist. Simply my perspective. No need to bring "noose" into this. I am sure you meant no harm BTW: Thanks to ALL for allowing this discussion to remain at a fairly civil level. My Best and Happy Travels Oaktown

Now I know why Oaktown Traveler seems so familiar. Check the tread "Should my parents leave after the wedding?" or some such title. Oaktown describes in great detail her wedding. (Pictured in Town& Country) Be sure to read it to get a clear picture of this person.

One week later and I am still confused....Will someone please explain what in the hell this has to do with a travel site?

dear confused: if a question involves anything remotely related to travel it will usually stand on its own here. moviegoing etiquette is getting out there on the fringe, but it does relate to travel i suppose in that it is part of many people's entertainment when they go out. same with restaurant questions. but as someone said recently, the tangential discussions interest some but not others, but can make the place interesting and unusual at times.

SIGHHHHHHHH: Ted: You and the others like you are going to HAVE to find someone else to Internet "STALK". Again, do not confuse ancedotes with details. Details about my wedding DO NOT exist. I know that may be hard for you to accept but you and others like you are going to have to somehow LIVE with that fact. Reminder: You do not KNOW or get to KNOW anyone on the INTERNET by some postings from you or them. These are CYBERSPACE postings. I know that hurts. Now run along and get a good seat for the REAL fireworks... The 4th of July ones. Try and make some human contact like some of the rest of us and again, in the REAL world if you run into someone who you don't like or may be jealous of you have to not BOTHER them and you are not allowed to try and get others to chase after them too. "People" do not like that it is COWARDLY and shows your character Ted is it? GEEESSHHHHHHHHHHH! My Very Best Oaktown Finally, leave me alone.