Can I extend the forum north of the 44th parallel? <BR> <BR>Toronto is a great place to live but I can't imagine why anyone would want to visit... The most overused accolade I hear is that we live in a "nice, clean" city. I have no idea what people from the US would come here to see (cleanliness)? The CN Tower? Big line ups, overpriced and if it's not raining you can look at the railway yards beneath. <BR> <BR>Shopping? The Eaton Centre is three levels of tacky chain stores with K-Mart type clothing. We go to Buffalo for deals, lots of selection to raid Target and to pick up the latest trendy stuff at Ann Taylor or the Saks outlet (and honestly, if we're going to Buffalo to shop doesn't that say it all???) <BR> <BR>We do have great restaurants but if I hear once more that we're on par with New York or LA in terms of being cosmopolitan, I'll gag. <BR> <BR>The Theatre?? The Stratford Festival is great, but it's a 2 hour drive outside of Toronto ... most of our plays have wooden Canadian actors with phoney British accents in plays that have been on Broadway for years already. And they promote these plays as if we're getting really "hot", fresh-from-broadway productions, like Lion King which already has been playing in New York for years. Or "Art". <BR> <BR>The Harbourfront is great ... if you can get there from the downtown. Thanks to the city planners from the 1950s there is a major expressway that runs between downtown and the harbour so forget about walking unless you want to go through an industrial wasteland. <BR> <BR>The weather... YUCK! OK, June - October are usually nice. November to May expect grey, dreary days. <BR> <BR>I once read an article that categorized cities in terms of the number of days you could fill there (New York and London were 7-day cities). Honestly, Toronto is a two day city in the summer and a one day city any other time of year. And spend that day eating!

Heather, <BR>I was in Toronto last summer and I thought it was great. I loved everything except the CN tower (an overpriced tourist trap). I was there a week and that wasn't enough time to see everything I wanted to see. If you want to live somewhere that really has nothing to do you should try Wisconsin. <BR>

Note to Kat: Unfortunately, you're telling us something that MANY of us already know without even visiting: That Atlantic City is horrid! And NO, don't go just for the gambling either! Go to Vegas along the Strip as it's far SUPERIOR in every way imaginable!!

Since some have extended this topic to Canada, my vote is Vancouver. What an overrated bore. The whole city shuts down by around 10pm.

Another vote here for Vancouver

Loved Plimoth Plantation,the rock was bad. <BR>Lived in Florida- anyone been to Naples? <BR>a beautiful place. <BR>Thought the Empire State Building was a nightmare-really long lines and CROWDED. <BR>Loved Central Park. <BR>The Queen Mary was boring! <BR>Disney World is a one time experience. <BR>Everglades are hot and boring-but go to Corkscrew Swamp near Naples. A nice boardwalk thru trees. Always see an alligator and cool birds. <BR>Loved Conway, New Hampshire- great trails and waterfalls.Also liked Martha's Vineyard- fun place. <BR>Least favorite place-- The Bonanza Attraction in Lake Tahoe. It was dirty, dusty, boring, and over priced. If it was free it wouldn't be worth it!

Forgot to mention that my family loved Rock City on Lookout Mtn.

As a New Yorker, I must nominate Times Square- why do tourists go there? It's horrible- dangerous, crowded, ugly, no good restaurants. And people always pick hotels in this area. Skip it, or if you must see it, drive by. No natives go there- we stay away from it.

Has got to be any type of swamp tour...either in New Orleans or the Everglades...first of all, the alligators have all been scared away, along with any wildlife that may have remained for the marshmallows (Yes, they still feed the poor creatures Marshmallows)... <BR> <BR>Chances are the boats are too noisy to attract any kind of wildlife...besides...leave the poor creatures alone! <BR> <BR>Soon the caribbean will be the same, with all the cruise ships tramping in with their sightseers looking at the 'beautiful clear water"...guess what muddies up the waters?

Someone wrote: don't leave all the good stuff to ourselves about places that are unspoiled...You've got to be kidding...every time I see a newspaper article exposing something I've enjoyed for years unspoiled I get very upset. <BR> <BR>You don't think I'd want tourists to see my favorite unspoiled spots, do you?

I finally decided to read this general thread and found it helpful. I think, though, I have a selective memory and tend to remember the good vacation decisions I made and block out the mistakes. Here's some I remember:<BR><BR>Florida--Silver Springs. Couldn't see much on glass bottom boat ride. See where some Tarzan was filmed--so what? A state park is better alternative to see nature.<BR><BR>Georgia--Helen and River St in Savannah. Helen is another town that has tried to create a fake German identity that has drawn outlet stores, t-shirt shops, condos, an Octoberfest, an terrible traffic. The surrounding state parks are great. Earlier poster described the tacky street in Savannah.<BR><BR>NYC--climbing the stairs to the Statue of Liberty. Riding the ferry and even the base was fine, but the lines, steps, and limited view was not worth the effort to climb.<BR><BR>NH--Conway area. Too many people and too much traffic around mostly unimpresseive shops and restaurants. The nearby mountains are great. Just stay on the west side.<BR><BR>Vermont--Ben &amp; Jerry's factory tour. One viewing area above the production floor. Just buy the ice cream at the store.<BR><BR>Tennessee--Gatlinburg has been well described. Although I haven't been there, my family was disappointed in Graceland. Not the size or luxury they expected for touring a mansion. Nephew liked the costumes.<BR><BR>Chicago--Navy Pier. Just too much like other shopping/entertainment complexes.<BR><BR>Texas--I think part of the disappointment with the Alamo is that it is small and in the middle of the city--just not the setting to help get a feel for the history.<BR><BR>Utah--Great Salt Lake. I don't know what I was expecting, but not all the flies!<BR><BR>California--Solvang is a Danish Helen. SF Fishermans Wharf area is dirty and depressing. Go elsewhere on the Bay.<BR><BR>Seattle--I didn't think the revitalized shopping area was very impressive. We went looking for some recommended ethnic restaurants and found some places that made us feel uncomfortable/unsafe. Once out of the city the surroundings were beautiful.<BR>

Steamtown, Scranton, PA.<BR><BR>To get there, you have to drive<BR>into Scranton!

Key West--It takes so much effort to get there, I guess I was expecting something special. I saw a few old houses, key lime everything, rocky beaches, and crowds waiting for the sunset even when overcast sky. There are the bars and restaurants, but I can find as good with much less travel time. I just didn't get it.

Linda, I agree -- Key West is one, big ZERO!!!

Tucked between Chicago (cool big city), Minneapolis (cool mid-sized city), and Madison (cool smaller city) is a hell hole called the Wisconsin Dells. Don't waste your time. I am sure at one point it was a very pretty area, but I can only see so many go-cart tracks, water slides, and McDonalds before I stop enjoying myself.

Most depressing mountain-top experience:<BR>PIKES PEAK. Pay to drive up, no vegetation, saw 1 bird, no other animals, dusty, sometimes perilous drive, crowded with other desperate-for-good time vacationers, tourist shop at the top to remind you of the "view", provided it's not foggy, cloudy. <BR>Greatest mountain-top experience: MOUNT EVANS (just west of Denver). Paved road all the way up, lush scenery, friendly mountain goats at the top, no crowds (also no restroom facilities or trinket shops), fresh air, much more interesting. Be sure to fill up the gas tank and use restroom before you begin ascent. Haven't been there since about '92, may have been commercialized since then.

Anyone been anyplace this summer?

I will never again go to disneyland over Christmas vacation. I am ashamed to admit we let our kids talk us into this more than once, since we fly from Hawaii to California every year. the last time we did this we got onto FIVE rides and we were there from open to close! We spent the entire time in line, or pushing our way through crowds in the street to the next ride! It might be better with the Fast pass, but a gate attendant said the crowds go up from about 10 or 15 thousand to 65,000 at Christmas.

In response to Denise (Big D) about Corpus Christi Botanical Gardens - I live here, and I agree, it is truly pathetic. You are right about the people who work there - all are very sweet and conscientious people. But I don't know why it is hyped at all. It's an embarrassment to us locals. I would not go to see the Corpus Christi Zoo either. Go to a zoo worthy of your time and money. I do like our Aquarium, even though it's not enormous. We have the Lexington, which is a battleship, and if you enjoy climbing up and down ladders in cramped spaces, be sure to go. For those people who are World War II buffs, and like seeing the planes, etc., by all means, take the tour (just make sure you aren't claustrophobic). The Columbus Ships here are also of interest - for about 5 minutes maximum. Maybe long enough to take a snapshot? That said, I do love Corpus Christi, and admire our beautiful bay. Don't look too close, though. We call ourselves the "Sparkling City by the Sea" - but there's plenty of trash on the beaches. People here spend a lot of time on the beach, cooking barbecue, playing horseshoes or volleyball, surfing and swimming or just laying back to get a tan. Take a stroll along the bayfront - watch the sailboarders and the rollerbladers as they pass by, drive to Port A and enjoy the beaches there (watch out for the undertow and the sharks, though), maybe take a fishing trip out into the gulf, visit the Aquarium, and you will probably get the best the city has to offer.

I'm so crushed. I'm visiting Salem this October for my honeymoon. My original plan was to go to Boston, and do the New England fall foliage thing and see some historical sites (never been east of St. Louis). <BR> <BR>I experienced HUGE sticker shock at the Boston hotels. So I started looking at bed and breakfasts. Two requirements : King size bed (fiancee is over 6'3") and a jacuzzi in the room. A bed and breakfast in Salem met these requirments. <BR>We were only going to spend 1 possibly 2 days in Salem, the other days are for driving up to Lake Winapasaukee in NH, 2 days in Boston, and a day down to Plymouth or Cape Cod. <BR> <BR>ANy of you have any better ideas? Already bought the plane tix to Boston, but we wouldn't lose that much money to cancel the B7B reservations in Salem.

<BR>TARPON SPRINGS FLA. THE SPONGE DIVERS. <BR>OVER PRICED SMALL BOAT OLD GUYS SMOKING UP THE BREATHING TUBE. WATER SO SHALLOW WE COULD WALK THRU LOOKING FOR A FAKE SPONGE THAT THE PLANTED THERE

I have to agree with Bettina's post waaaay back in May of '00 for Mackinac Island being a total rip-off. 1.)As you depart the ferry, all you see are souvenir shops - tons of them - all selling the exact same t-shirts and teaspoons- how many teaspoons does one really need? {Never understood that concept anyway.} (2.) The restaurants are overpriced with bland/mediocre food - I swear my chili came out of a can. (3.) There is NOTHING to do or see as you walk around the island (or rather, side-step around horse poop), other than an old fort that just happened to be closed while we were there, except (4.) THE GRAND HOTEL - which CHARGES YOU TO WALK INTO THEIR LOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, you heard it right, folks...if you are not a guest, you cannot open their doors without paying a fee. They graciously allow you to walk on their porch for free. How kind.

Hey Geth - don't cancel your reservations if you found what you want at the Salem B&B. Salem isn't that bad and the Peabody Essex Musuem is very good. Salem is a good place to use as a base for seeing the North Shore of Massachusetts. You can go to Gloucester, Rockport, Newburyport etc. You can take the commuter rail into Boston. Try the Grapevine rest. and the Love Noodle rest. They get great reviews. Its just the witch stuff that turns a segment of the population off (including me).

This is my all-time favorite Fodors' thread. It has it all (except rudeness)!

Thanks to those who replied and encouraged me to keep my reservations. It occurred to me that the campy Halloween thing was why we made the reservations in the first place (well, the cost too) and so why should someone saying "yeah its campy and commercialized" bother me. &lt;grin&gt; <BR> <BR>Good luck and happy traveling. I wish I was more well traveled. I hope 32 isn't too late to start!

To Greg, re; your msg march 16 <BR>i just had to respond to you. so you think vancouver is overrated. well we were voted the most liveable city in the world recently!!shuts down at 10??? well maybe the people or places you go to do. on the other hand we have so much to see and do here, mountains, ocean, so many different cultures. i guess everyone is just pooped out from playing all day here. oh, maybe you mean vancouver, wash. there are two vancouver's you know!!! by the way what great city do you live in. that's ok, our tourism is great these sunny (and not too hot) days with the big cruise ships coming in daily and people enjoying this magnificant city. maybe you need to get out and see the world a bit. sorry about your bad experience with vancouver, don't worry the tourists still keep flocking here. oh by the way tonite we have the fireworks down at the beach . a crowd of about 300,00 is expected, i doubt everyone will be going home to bed after, actually some friends and i are going and plan on partying for a good portion of the evening afterward. <BR>Happy travelling!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laura, <BR>Love this thread. <BR> <BR>Going to Boston in 2 weeks - quick, what should I avoid? <BR> <BR>Molly, I liked Queen Mary---as my hotel room mainly, a point from which to see and do other things. In that respect it was kewl, I got to stay in one of the better rooms with beautiful paneling and appointments. Also there was a Brit bartender who knew everything about drinks, lots of storeies too. July 4th there were fireworks.

to the Top!

I have to agree with John (toughguy), I love Baltimore, There is so much more to see besides the Inner Harbor, you just have to go off the beaten path a little. <BR>Alot of great little neighborhoods and alot of interesting shops. <BR> <BR>As far as the worst place I've ever visited has been Gettysburg, Pa. <BR>I guess if you like staring at big rocks in the middle of fields you will like it, but it is sooo boring. Some little mom & pop stores and the speed limit I believe is like 25 mph for about 10 miles. You can take a whole day just trying to drive thru it!

Freeport, Maine-Who wants to go to retail outlets when in beautiful Maine. <BR> <BR>Manchester Centre, Vermont-Who wants to go to retail outlets when in beautiful Vermont. <BR> <BR>Ben and Jerry Tour, Vermont-A real waste of time. They're so concerned about someone stealing their secrets that you pretty much see nothing. A video and a quick peek through a glass window at the finished product is all I remember. But you can buy an overpriced ice cream cone and souvenirs.

I would bet a bunch that every post on here putting a place down would draw an equal group of defenders and vice versa. It is what makes a great debate. Keep it up-For the non Gettysburg lover-you have to have an appreciation of what went on there and the pivotal place it took in the outcome of the war(along with Vicksburg that same week)!

Attn: FIVE POINTS, Your right, you do have to have appreciation to enjoy places like Gettysburg. But how interseting can it be standing around looking at nothing? Perhaps I didn't see whatever it is that is supposed to be interesting, but if someone is going there expecting to see all sorts of interesting war monuments or forts/buildings they will be dissapointed. Of course this is my personal opinion.

Geth, Do not cancel. I happened to love Salem. The witch museum and Nathaniel Hawthorn's house were very enjoyable. Thought the town was clean and quaint. Easy access to Boston from here and room rates are much better. I want to do exactly the same thing you are doing some day so I would love to hear a trip report from you. That is one of my favorite parts of the country and you will be there at a great time of year. You can also get to Gloucester and rockport easily from Salem. Enjoy your trip.

By far, "House on the Rock" in Wisconsin was the worst place I have EVER been. Dirty, dusty, garbage filled tourist trap. Horrid, Horrid, Horrid!

EPCOT CENTER!!! It's just an overblown food court and souvenir shop that you actually pay to enter. Picture a Stuckey's with ethnic souvenirs.

House on the Rock = House of SCHLOCK! Truly awful!

Yeah!!! I'm #200!

At the risk of sounding unpatriotic...I nominate the Grand Canyon. No complaints about the natural wonder from either rim. But, the onsite lodging and food are overwhelmingly awful. We did a family tour of GC, Zion and Bryce -- or as my then 10-year old son disaffectionately labelled it -- the AMFAC tour 3 summers ago. Overwhelming beauty spoiled by crude, dirty, fly-infested rooms and bland, overcooked cafeteria food that the lunch room ladies at any elementary school would boycot.

If you can't enjoy yourself in Key West there is a problem.<BR>

I've been around this board a good long while, and threads don't get any better than this one.<BR><BR>Read, enjoy, contribute!