Bear Spray in Yellowstone

Old Apr 10th, 2008, 07:21 PM
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Bear Spray in Yellowstone

First, is it even legal to have this in yellowstone? We are worried at the thought of coming upon a bear while hiking. We were in Alaska this past summer and had never really been in bear territory before. Mercy, they were everywhere. Fortunately, we never saw one when hiking. We saw a lot of them while salmon fishing from the security of our boat. Also, saw some along the kenai river, not far from areas from where people were fishing. We came very close to even hitting one in our car. We would like to take a couple of day hikes while in Yellowstone. Yellowstone Picnic area hike, and Hell Roaring Creek trail is a couple we are considering. I have read the pros and cons of bear spray and I am still up in the air about buying any. I did see the bear man on TV using it on bears and they did leave quickly when he sprayed them. Of course, bears in the wild
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 04:34 AM
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Yes it is legal in Yellowstone and GTNP. We bought some at one of the Park General stores because we weren't in a town before we went, but they do have it in the towns around Yellowstone also and it is probably cheaper. Never had to use it, but felt better carrying it along. Most of the trails you are on will have people on them, but we were alone at times on some of them. We gave ours to a ranger when we left. Can't take them on planes.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 04:56 AM
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Not only is bear spray legal, but it's highly recommended by my writers who have just finished out new guide to Yellowstone & Grand Teton. Both stressed to me the importance of having bear spray in either park when going hikes (except those on the boardwalks in the Old Faithful area) and we made that a strong point in their hiking tips.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 06:29 AM
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If you travel in a group (4 or more) and make a bit of noise so you don't surprise the bears then I feel you don't need pepper spray. I worked in Yellowstone two summers and have bumped into dozens of grizzlies in Alaska and Y-stone and never felt it necessary to have spray, but for sure if you're hiking alone or with one other person in thick timber it might be reassuring.

If you do decide to get it then buy two cans and practice with one of them so you can see how far it shoots and get used to how long it takes to pull it out.

Bill
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 07:15 AM
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There's an old joke about this:

"The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.

Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.

Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.

Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!"

There's another one about why you should file off the front sight of a .357 magnum in bear country, but it's probably not appropriate for this forum.


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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 09:02 AM
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So maybe I'll wear a cowbell around my neck. The griz will take one look on it and surely know that a bell that size would be painful to swallow, not mention to pass from the other end.


Thanks for the advice everyone. I think the two pack is a good idea. There will be three of us. We would like to see bears in the wild, but just don't to run into one around a corner or over a hill.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 11:47 AM
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Anybody used the spray and lived to tell about it?

Just curious how practical it is. And the reason I'm asking is the spray is not advised in windy weather - it can turn on you, or in rain or fog it stops working.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 01:21 PM
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Hi spiro,

I wouldn't be overly concerned about bears during most of the hiking you will do. First, during peak summer, the grizzlies go up to much higher altitudes - that's where their food is. Second, most of the trails you will probably do are in more popular areas and will have quite a bit of foot traffic.

For me, I would take pepper spray if I were going on a long, lightly used trail early or late in the season, of if I were backpacking. But - honestly, I wouldn't want to backpack in Yellowstone or Glacier.

The point made above about hiking in a group and making some noise is a good one. If it makes you feel better, by all means take some spray along - and have a good time.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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try Hai Karate - It'll kick ass AND make the bear smell lovely.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 03:09 PM
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Consider yourself lucky if you get a glimpse of a Griz. We have been to the Park at least 20 times and on occasions you won't be lucky enough to see one..... One lucky evening several years ago we saw 9 bears between Tower Jct and our camp site in Pebble Creek. The first one was grazing near the service station at Tower Jct. The others were along the Lamar River and Soda Butte Creek. Several times Black's have visited the campground in early afternoon.. If you are hiking they will here you and be gone even before you see them. If camping just use common since, keep a clean campsite and you should have no problems of any kind.
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 03:56 PM
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Anybody used the spray and lived to tell about it?

Just curious how practical it is.


That's a GOOD question Lot of people carrying spray have been mauled because the spray was not handy ... you almost have to carry it in your hand to get to it in time. I read about two hikers who stumbled on a grizz with cubs and were attacked. They emptied a full can of spray into her face and she eventually took off but not before seriously mauling both of them.

And the most famous incident was the death of Vitaly Nikolayenko, who had 33 years as a wildlife researcher, most with grizzly bears at close range. Followed a large male that kept giving him warning signs – intent stares, growls, jaw popping and bluff charges – felt he was OK with a can of spray. “The bear exploded from the alders at a distance of four paces, and Vitaly was dead [of a] massive, killing blow to the skull. The snow was spattered with a dense cone of orange bear spray, as if he were hit before he got a chance to aim.” Few people knew as much about bears as Vitaly, yet he was killed with a can of spray in his hand.

The most comprehensive study of bear attacks was done by Prof. Stephen Herrero, who examined all the bear 'incidents' at Banff, Yellowstone, Glacier and Alaska and wrote the book "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance”. He feels anyone venturing into grizzly country should learn as much as possible about the bears to avoid behaviors that bring on attacks. As for sprays he wrote "I recommend no repellents except caution and understanding of bears.” In his studies he noted that most attacks were on singles or pairs and that there has never been an attack on four or more people in one group, which was why I suggested hiking in a group above.

I'm sure there have been cases when having spray in-hand kept someone from being mauled, but it's not a cure-all. You have to be almost on top of the bear to use it, then hope it will turn the bear instead of making it angry, and it's better to avoid getting into those spots in the first place.

Bill
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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Be sure to educate yourself on proper use, though. For one thing, I seem to recall reading that when bear spray is applied to surfaces (such as tent, backpack, etc) it actually ATTRACTS bears. So if you're going to practice, do it at home, not in the park, and definitely not on the trail.

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Old Apr 11th, 2008, 07:12 PM
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Bill H --- <>I'm sure there have been cases when having spray in-hand kept someone from being mauled, but it's not a cure-all. You have to be almost on top of the bear to use it, then hope it will turn the bear instead of making it angry, and it's better to avoid getting into those spots in the first place.<>

Don't you think its the other way around... The bear will have to be almost on top of YOU... From what I gather there is nothing worse than a PO'd Griz, especially one with cubs.

I think the good Prof. Stephen Herrero had the right idea. Know something about bears and avoid behaviors that bring on attacks. Vitaly Nikolayenko was knowledgeable but failed to use his knowledge.
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Old Apr 12th, 2008, 05:57 AM
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RedRock, I think you and I are in agreement on this ... read my first post on this thread for example, where I wrote "I worked in Yellowstone two summers and have bumped into dozens of grizzlies in Alaska and Y-stone and never felt it necessary to have spray" I'll be spending two weeks in bear country in Alaska this summer and never even considered bringing spray.

While there are documented cases where the spray has driven off bears, but I feel it's much better to know as much about them as possible and avoid getting into sticky situations, something that should be easy to do on short hikes in Yellowstone. But sometimes the bears don't follow the guidelines

Bill
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Old Apr 12th, 2008, 06:26 AM
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spirobulldog, Bill's advice is sound. I fished Slough Creek for years and when I found out the real reason they closed that trail was that the Rangers wanted to ride, fish and have the area to themselves. Forget paranoia and just be alert and back off it you happen upon a Moose, Badger or whatever.
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Old Apr 12th, 2008, 08:40 AM
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spirobulldog, I was just curious about bear activity in Y-stone so did some 'net searches ... you probably saw some of these sites but in case you didn't you might find some interesting stuff here.

This one lists the fatal bear attacks in North America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rica_by_decade

Last fatal in Y-stone was in 1986, I remember this one, the photographer kept following the bear, crowding to get close enough for a better photo. He was at fault, not the bear.

Previous Y-stone fatal was 1984, I remember this one too, a Swiss tourist backpacking alone who followed all the rules regarding food storage etc but was still pulled from her tent and killed at night, proving you never really know ...

Anyway, here's a Y-stone site that discusses using bear spray:
http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/b_spray.html ... most of the attacts on hikers are 'defensive-aggressive' when the hiker stumbles unexpectedly on a bear at close range and is whacked around a bit but not killed, if they lay down and play dead. Note the part where they approached radio-collared bears to see their reaction, with 90% running off and the others bluffing and threatening but not making contact. So if you stand your ground you have a good chance of not being attacked. And if attacked there is little chance you'll be killed if you play possum.

This one says the odds are 1-in-2.1 million you'll be injured by a bear at Y-stone, though it doesn't take into account that most people don't wander far from the parking lots, where the odds are near-zero.
http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/y...maul_info.html

And this one has stats showing the mauling incidents in relation to the number of nights spent in the backcountry, increasing the odds to 1-in-many thousands instead of millions.
http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/bmaul_injuries.html

FWIW, when I worked there buffalo killed more people than did bears.

Bill
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Old Apr 12th, 2008, 09:13 AM
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Bill- wow- that was great information. I have moslty hiked in non grizzly bear areas around Missoula, but some day hikes in GNP, Pardaise Valley, and the Beartooths. I have never carried spray but try to make noise especially when going up hill, blind corners, etc.....

I remember a hike in the two medicine area of GNP, my wife and I were in the gift shop and were thumbing through "Night of the Grizzy".

Freaked out we, went on our hike, our senses were on high alert, I have never seen things, heard things, and overall noticed things as I did on that hike. My best ever.

Be aware, be smart, be alert and hikers should be fine.
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Old Apr 12th, 2008, 10:52 AM
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Bill_H -- We have seen tourist do some strange and dumb things with bears over the years in the YS.

One year we watched as about 20-25 Japanese tourist from a tour bus chased a Griz up the road and thru the willows. After several hundred yards of this the bear doubled back and crossed the road in front of our van. I often wondered what would have happened if they had caught the poor critter. It was scared to death. All it had wanted to do was cross the road and be left alone.

Another time between Tower and Monmouth a Griz was grazing about 75 yards from the road. Several teenagers broke from the pack of tourist and started at a run towards the bear. I thought their parents were going to have a fit, they screamed at them in several different languages. The kids finally stopped about 50 feet from the bear once they realized what they were doing. The bear never flinched and ignored it all.
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Old Apr 27th, 2008, 04:27 AM
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To revive this thread, here's a recent post which is in favor of using bear spray in Alaska, including a quote from a book authored by the same Prof. Herrero I quoted earlier:

http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/381252.html

Part of this article is intended to get Alaskans to carry spray instead of "iron" (firearms), something you can't do in Y-stone anyway. Some of the Alaska boys are trigger-happy; I remember a few years back someone used a .458 magnum (your basic elephant cartridge) to shoot a small black bear on a trail in an Anchorage suburb, a bear that many had seen (it even had a name, "Lucky"). The hiker said he felt "threatened" by the bear and shot it from about 30 yards, which is ridiculous. It says a lot about a person if they feel they have to carry a .458 on an urban trail used by joggers and hikers daily.

Anyway, since I posted anti-spray messages earlier on this thread I thought I'd be fair and post this pro-spray one too, especially since it quotes the same bear expert I mentioned. The Herrero book I have is dated 1985 so it appears he has changed his mind I guess you should read both sides and make up your own mind as to what you feel comfortable with.

Bill
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