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Badly Behaved Children (and their parents!)--what do you do?

Badly Behaved Children (and their parents!)--what do you do?

Old Apr 3rd, 1999, 08:51 PM
  #21  
D.B.
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ooops, sorry, should have said -- become Parisian.
 
Old Apr 4th, 1999, 10:28 AM
  #22  
Diane
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We just got back from a cross country trip (Baltimore to SF and back) and were lucky to have both flights filled with well-behaved families and even shared our row with a charming 3rd grade boy traveling between his divorced parents' homes. I emphasize with parents traveling - to a point. When our kids were little we were "lucky" that they were quite well-behaved. Of course we tried not to put them in a position where they'd be prone to causing problems: no "grown up" restaurants or resorts. Some people are so silly to think that little Jennifer and Taylor are going to be smitten as they are with elegant surroundings. Kids could care less. They want PB&J, or grilled cheese sandwiches (on Wonderbread, not some 9-grain wonder with thick chewy crust). We simply waited until they were old enough to appreciate it AND to appreciate that others got a kick out of their grown-up manners. Sure, it meant more vacations at Grandma & Grampas, or just the beach (not the Caribbean), but we have some great family times to remember. And now that they are older and have been on more sophisticated trips too, I think they will know how to travel with their own kids someday.
 
Old Apr 5th, 1999, 01:44 PM
  #23  
marilyn
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I knew I'd be sorry if I opened this one up and read it, and I'll probably be sorry if I ANSWER too, but here goes!

Nineteen years ago when I had my first child and starting taking her out in public, the first thing I noticed is that NEVER have I EVER had another job at which so many perfect strangers felt free to comment and critique my performance! I don't actually mind, because I enjoy chatting with people (obviously), but people seem to be very opinionated where children are concerned, and also I think some of them have selective memories. My mother-in-law, for example, used to tell me that her children NEVER fought, she didn't understand WHY mine would argue, etc!

I think that the reason many, many children may not know how to behave is that many, many adults don't know how to either. I am FAR more often annoyed in public places by the behaviour of boorish, selfish, obnoxious adults than by that of children. I am FAR better able to tolerate a child kicking my seat on a plane than I am sitting behind some long-haired adult who has reclined his seat into my lap (although I don't really like to sit near either). I am FAR more annoyed by drunken adults around the pool than by rowdy children--and why sit close to the edge in any case if you don't want to get splashed?

Really, though, I wish everyone would remember that on this crowded little planet we should learn tolerance and respect for each other, whatever age we are, and then maybe everyone would behave more pleasantly in public. This isn't really an age issue, but rather involves learning how to behave suitably in all the various circumstances in which we find ourselves.
 
Old Apr 6th, 1999, 10:19 AM
  #24  
Dee
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Wow! Obviously a touchy subject. Having just come back from a cruise with 5 adults and 6 kids (ages 10 thru 18), I can identify with both sides of this story.
There were times I was extremely proud of my two, not because they behaved like Miss Manners graduates, but because they looked soooo good compared to their older cousins! I was mortified by how my nieces and nephews acted from the moment we got on a plane, all through the cruise, and on the way home. And yes, I let them and their parents know. (You can imagine how well received I will be at the next family gathering!) And I encouraged and praised mine everytime I saw behavior that was appropriate and thoughtful.
But in fairness, I also saw my adult family members acting in embarassing ways, too. I suspect I must be getting to be an "old fogey", well on my way to becoming a cranky old woman!
Travel with kids is never easy.
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 07:51 AM
  #25  
ellen
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Children will be children, but it is never too early to teach them manners. But then again, the children who don't have manners usually have the type of parents who have NO clue when NOT to bring their kids. These are the people who are insulted if their 4 year old twins are not invited to a black-tie, adults only, Saturday night wedding. These are the people who think that WHATEVER their kid does is adorable, despite how it affects others (sticky fingers all over your luggage, pulling food out of your grocery cart). Maybe this is why the saying "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" is so popular. The only exception to the behavior rule should be for kids with special problems. And in that case, please figure out BEFORE you leave the house whatever it will take to keep your kid amused. Contrary to what Amy says, it is not my job to entertain someone else's kids. May sound cold, but I travel for business and do not need Sunny Delight all over my laptop.
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 08:48 AM
  #26  
Warren
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I had ten years of childless time to spend with my wife on travel to many exotic places, and saw a variety of good and bad behaviors exhibited by children and adults alike. I am also a teacher who has seen a wide range of attitudes about respect and responsibility in adolescents. Speaking from experience, now that I am helping to raise three children (ages 4,2, and 1), I've found that parents can avoid most of the offending behaviors with a little planning and foresight, but that many are just lazy or sloppy. We pick and choose which vacations to take our kids on based upon their chances for an enjoyable experience (either being left behind or taking them), but feel compelled to take one child no matter what based on her night terrors that only my wife and I can ease, so remember always that their are circumstances that you are not aware of, so tolerance is the key. Remember, time is relative, and a plane flight is a mere moment in time that can be quickly forgotten once you deplane. In other words, deal with it, file it away in your worst experiences cabinet, and get over it. I can't understand why people prefer to wallow in their percieved misery rather than focus on something positive. And Mike, I hope you somehow find your way onto the next "flight 800". Peace
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 10:23 AM
  #27  
Carolyn
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Wow, I certainly opened a can of worms, didn't I? I have indeed calmed down; all your suggestions are good, especially complimenting the parents of well-behaved kids. And I agree, the "buck stops" with the parents. (This has been as entertaining to read as the posting on the Europe forum about Parisians!)
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 11:48 AM
  #28  
John
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Two words: "Duct Tape"
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 01:00 PM
  #29  
Jeff
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Whoa, Warren. Mike doesn't like kids so you want him dead? You sound like one of those pro-lifers who advocate the murder of doctors!
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 01:05 PM
  #30  
Neal Sanders
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I've followed this fascinating thread for the past week without adding my own two cents worth (posting, "this is why God invented business class," hardly seemed to be much of a contribution). But then I was reminded of two cross-country flights I made recently.

Like most business travelers, my instructions to my corporate travel agent are succinct and to the point: put me as far forward in the plane as possible. The chance of encountering an infant increases exponentially as you move toward the rear of the cabin. On a flight from LA to Washington, however, I found that the seat behind mine was occupied by a boy of perhaps eight or nine, clearly unaccompanied, definitely fidgeting, loud irritating video game at the ready. Having endured a child pounding his feet into the back of my seat a few weeks earlier, I began scouting the plane for an alternate seat.

But something remarkable happened on this flight. The guy in the seat next to the young boy began talking to him. They talked about the aerodynamics of the 777, the difference between nimbus and cumulus clouds, and the latest video games. They talked from LA to the Great Plains, and then the child fell asleep. Their conversation resumed after lunch and, when the plane touched down at Dulles, they were still finding common points of interest.

I made a point of seeking out and thanking that Good Samaritan on the bus back to the terminal, and he said it wasn't the first time he had befriended an unaccompanied child on a flight. "I used to hit the attendant call button the first time a kid misbehaved," he told me. "But what's the stewardess going to do? Bind and gag a five-year-old? I tried talking, and it worked."

A few weeks later, I found myself seated next to a mother and daughter on another long flight. The child started jumping up and down as soon as the plane took off. The mother seemed to accept that as standard behavior. Words were exchanged and I was told that "they're all like that at that age." And so I tried talking to the girl, using the games on my laptop as a diversion. Soon the little girl (aged 5 as it turned out) was captivated. Incredibly, this annoyed the girl's mother, who now wanted her daughter to "come be with mommy." Ten minutes later, the girl was jumping in her seat again. Out came my laptop as a diversion. This time, the mother cut me off at the pass: "I've carefully taught my daughter not to talk to strangers," she said, curtly. "Don't try to undermine that."

I wish there were a clear-cut moral to the story -- one passenger intervenes and spares a dozen fellow passengers from five hours of hell; another passenger intervenes and gets a lecture on pedophilia - but there isn't. I like to think that most parents would prefer that their children sit quietly on board a plane, but are simply resigned to tantrums. Perhaps they're afraid to discipline their children in front of observers (I recall reading about the arrest of a woman bringing a child back from a Russian orphanage after purportedly being observed enroute striking the child).

What's that refrain from "Bye Bye Birdie"? "Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way; oh, what's the matter with kids today?"
 
Old Apr 8th, 1999, 03:10 PM
  #31  
ellen
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Again, why can't parents anticipate the fidgit factor and provide enough of their own distractions? No five year old is going near my laptop! I recall driving from NYC to Orlando with my parents when I was 5 -the OLDEST of 3 of us. My mom had a bag of distractions with her--from coloring books to pipe cleaners. I think the problem here is that most parents today are so used to dumping their kids in front of a video, the tube, or a nanny, that they haven't a clue how to entertain them for five minutes without the help of Barney. Sorry, if you can't manage your own children for 5 hours, you get no sympathy here.
 
Old Jun 30th, 1999, 09:54 AM
  #32  
Jenna
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After reading the thread on the Europe posting about "fat" passengers, which turns into a discussion similar to this one, I'm bringing it back up again...any further suggestions/comments?
 
Old Jun 30th, 1999, 03:02 PM
  #33  
Karen
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Well . . . I was going to say, too bad we can't just do what a friend of mine does with his cats when they jump up where they're not supposed to go -- squirt them with water from a water pistol. He's able to get them off the kitchen counter from across the room and, other than being a little wet and peeved, no harm is done.

Having said that, I would say that the best workable solution is probably what was already mentioned -- keep the kid distracted and interested in something. Given the short attention spans of alot of kids, have a variety of things to do -- play cards with them; read to them or give them books to read on their own; hand-held video games (with the noise turned off or with the use of headphones); travel-size etch-a-sketch; play Mad-Libs with them; there's all sorts of portable games that can entertain them and be fun for both of you.

I have also seen beautifully behaved kids too, not just holy terrors, but I'm sad to say more of the latter. One example, of the latter, was in a local restaurant not too long ago. There was a group sitting near us consisting of 2 young couples and one little girl (about 4 years old). The parents were basically ignoring her and she spent alot of time running up and down the aisles of this busy restaurant, whipping around corners at breakneck speed, while the poor waitpersons were trying to dodge her while carrying fully-loaded trays of food and drinks; she was so short that sometimes they couldn't see her until the last minute. Their waitress kept bringing the little girl back to the table and asking the parents to keep an eye on her, but they would just laugh, agree to do it and then proceed to ignore her again. Every once in awhile they would tell her to stay seated or she'd get no dessert and she'd throw a tantrum and they'd relent. The poor waitress was so busy trying to round up the little girl, that she was unable to give very decent service to the rest of her customers, us included. (Having been a waitress before I felt very sorry for her and gave her a good tip anyway, figuring it was combat pay!). I think restaurants should have a policy that small children must be accompanied by their parents (or whatever adult they are with) when they are away from the table. It is too dangerous to everyone involved to let them run around like that. If they collide with a waitperson carrying a tray, that tray (and hot food and drinks) could fall on the kid or fall on another customer. Not to mention the waitperson could fall and injure themselves in the process. The term "family-friendly restaurant" shouldn't have to be synonymous with "beware of wild animals on the loose!" My hairdresser's shop has a policy that if a customer brings a child who is under a certain age there must be another adult present to watch them. It goes on to say that they love children, but that they are not equipped to babysit and there are too many hazards in the shop that could hurt those children. They were afraid at first that they might lose some customers, but their fears were unfounded.

Someone earlier said it seemed that kids are more spoiled and rude today than they used to be. I think that is true to a certain degree, but I have my own opinion as to why that is (just from what I've observed with my friends and family). The kids I've seen that are the rudest are the ones that have parents who both work very long hours and only have a small amount of "quality time" to spend with them. I've been told (by those parents) that they don't want to spend what little time they have with their kids disciplining them -- they want to have fun and interact in a meaningful way. (In all fairness, this doesn't seem to apply to those parents who have still managed to provide good childcare, either through a nanny or a caring relative, who takes the time to teach and train the child.) They throw money at them in place of their time. At the same time that they're giving them all this money, they aren't teaching them how to save and spend it responsibly -- it's just "ask and ye shall receive". If the kid throws a tantrum, they bribe him to be quiet -- thus they've taught him that if he throws a fit he'll get a reward. I've seen very polite and wonderful people with very rude and ill-mannered kids; it's not always rude parents raising rude kids. I think they mean well but don't have the time or patience to teach a child to be polite and well-behaved.

An example of kids that are wonderful to be around . . a friend of mine has three little boys that are alot of fun and are usually very well-behaved in public and to the guests in their home. They say please and thank you (and are reminded to do so if they forget) and they even write thank-you notes for the gifts we give them (we got a particularly gushing and effusive one from the 13-year old for his last birthday gift -- I almost wanted to frame it!) I've watched her with them. She's very firm, very consistent (they never get to get away with being rude or cruel to others) but she still maintains a sense of humor with them. She doesn't hit or "scare" them into behaving but she does follow through if she says they'll be grounded, get no dessert, etc. Yes, they do test the limits periodically (they're not total saints or angels all the time), but she's made it very clear -- with her actions and her words -- that tantrums will never get them what they want (and will only get them punished on top of that). And above all, she respects them in return and treats them the way she wants them to treat others. I sure hope I'm as patient and consistent as she is when I become a parent. It's gotta be the hardest job out there and I have nothing but admiration for those who do it well. Part of it is "luck of the draw" too. Some kids have better temperments than others, it's all part of being human. some are shy, some outgoing; some hyper, some calm.
 
Old Jul 1st, 1999, 10:15 AM
  #34  
Geraldo
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My advice is to learn to breathe deeply and count to ten (yes, it sucks that it has come to this). Or, sedate yourself (name your poison). Or, have some drinks and see if the parents of the offending child mind if you use colorful expletives and wild profanity around them. Or, use a friend of mine's quote "control your children...or I will".

Was I a hellion as a child? Yes. Did I act out in public or in enclosed areas? No. Why? Because my Mom would "tan my hide". Did sitting me down and logically explaining to me why some action was wrong change further actions? No. Most children today have are not disciplined. And, babysitters are not used anymore. "Time outs"? Give me a break. Most children do not have a developed sense of remorse. Like an animal that doesn't know why the flame burns the nose, but it has learned not to get near it.
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 11:33 AM
  #35  
Cindy
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I promised I wouldn't revive this thread, but I can't help it.

I have three young children. I have a few thoughts based on my experience for people who are annoyed by children misbehaving in public.

Please understand that a parent with a child who is "melting down" has very few options. Striking the child is out. Strangers will really let you have it for that, and hitting a child never stops them from crying. Time-outs are impractical; where can you give a kid a time-out on a plane? Taking away privileges, bribing, distractions? Sometimes they work, but usually not. Sure, it would be better to plan differently and prevent the outburst, but that is just hindsight. Obviously, I am the last person who wants my kid to lose it in public. It is humiliating, and I am still scarred due to certain child-related debacles years ago.

So what can you child-free folks do to help when a child is simply misbehaving? You'll be surprised by this suggestion, but talk directly to the kid. Don't talk to me. Telling me "You really should do this and that and the other thing" doesn't help when I'm trying figure out how to get some control over the situation. Just look the kid in the eye and, using a normal adult authoritative voice (not one of those sing-song Sesame Street voices), say something like, "Honey, you should go sit down. You might get hurt if you run around in here," or "Excuse me. Could you please stop kicking my seat. It is keeping me awake." No kidding; this is really helpful. A few times, someone has done this to one of my kids. And do you know what? My kid straightened up mighty quick. That is because they are surprised, they are not used to tuning out authoritative non-parental adults, and they are embarrassed. They never forget it, particularly after I lecture them about it afterward. I think the chance that the parent will take you to task is minimal. And so what if they do? Maybe they'll learn something.

I know. It's not your job to discipline my kid. But just know that there are parents out there who really do want their kids to behave, and some of us welcome all the help we can get.
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 01:19 PM
  #36  
lisa
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Cindy -- That is the most rational, thoughtful, helpful suggestion on this topic that I've seen in a long time. And you are right -- kids are usually so surprised that a stranger is speaking to them that they just sort of stare quietly for a while. And I do think it helps make kids aware of the effect that their actions have on others, which ultimately makes them more empathic and at an earlier age. However, not all parents welcome having strangers speak to their children. One similar technique that some friends of mine (who also have three kids) have found works wonders is this -- when their child is acting up, for example, in a grocery store or restaurant -- the parent will either pick the child up or kneel down -- so that the parent and the child are at the same level -- and the parent will point to other people nearby in the store and say in a normal tone, "Look, Janie, look at all the people staring at you. All those people are listening to you and it's bothering them. They can't do their shopping because you're making so much noise. They're wondering what's wrong with you and it's embarrassing me." For some reason, it seems to help quiet the child. They said they learned this technique in Japan (before they were married), where they observed that the primary way that Japanese mothers got their children to behave was by pointing out to the child the effect the child's behavior was having not only on other strangers nearby, but also on the parent (focusing on the embarrassment factor). It's honest, it's direct, and it makes the kid think for a minute. I'm not saying it works with all kids or in every situation (nothing does), but it's one more tool to add to the woodshed.
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 01:58 PM
  #37  
Cindy
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Lisa,

You're right. That is a good tool. I think I'll try it this week in the produce aisle. I guess timing will be crucial -- I'll have to get them before they've really lost all reason.
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 02:10 PM
  #38  
marilyn
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Did anyone ever question Carolyn's original complaint about the parents diapering a child at their seat on the plane? Just where would you suggest this heinous act take place?? It would take a contortionist to do it in the lavatory. I agree that careless DISPOSAL of a dirty diaper is offensive, but I challenge anyone to change a diaper in the restroom of an airplane!!!
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 03:04 PM
  #39  
Alex
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Thank God I'm gay.
 
Old May 25th, 2000, 03:25 PM
  #40  
Cindy
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Marilyn,

Good heavens! You would change a soiled diaper in your airplane seat in front of God and everyone? You would funk up half the plane because you can't figure out how to change a diaper in a restroom?

It is not easy, but here's how I do it. For small babies, you bring extra blankets for this purpose and lay them on a few blankets on the floor, or you use a stiff changing pad on top of the toilet. (There was one attached to my diaper bag). For larger kids, you stand them up and do the best you can.

Many years ago, the movie theatre patrons behind me changed their baby's soiled diaper right there in the theatre. They left the dirty diaper on the floor. I can still remember the film -- it was "Quest for Fire." The smell was awful. Was that you?
 

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