Jane, I stand down and apologize for acting over sensative. I misread your intent.

Kal, you slay me!

Sending people tramping thru the lava fields, hiking to Aquarium/Fishpool was a bad idea. Innocently trying to give us tourists the scoop. With unmarked trails, artifacts, sacred grounds have been effected. Bad tourists, not one of them from this forum, leaving a trail of debris in their wake. Entering the water improperly and damaging coral and peeing and bringing sunscreen to this protected water has effected the ecosystem and the rare fish and aquatic plantlife.

Innocently sending people to Ovaline Pools. They are not responsible for any tourist hurt here. However, this is a very dangerous area, as we have learned. Sadly people have drowned. My first fear was the climb down - slippery mud and boulders. I have a friend with permanant brain damage after slipping on the rocks on Newport, RI's Cliffwalk. She is a shell of the person she once was. Much more intense caution and precaution must be stressed for anyone planning on hiking and swimming in these pools. We are lucky on this board, since we are the educated tourist. Were the parents swept out to sea at a blow hole reckless? I say they were simply ignorant to the danger. The same for the drownings at Olivine.

Places like Blue Hole in Hana. We first encountered this place due to word of mouth. It was lovely and hidden, and the neighbors we passed on our way smiled, because the knew we were in the know. Now they are cursing as their off road driveway has turned into a parking lot. Now how would you feel if 10 visitors all day in your backyard turned into 200? I certainly would feel ticked off at the blatent lack of respect for my privacy. And that is only one place.

Again, I love the books, respect the authors. But they do cause damage. I have offered only 3 expamples.

A Maui local who posts here has heard of cases of tourists waving the Blue Bible in the faces of the property owners claiming it was their right to cross their property because it was n the book! I guess they take the verse "for the Bible tells me so" to the limit!

I STILL say, if the book says go then and you get there and sign says no trespassing--leave!!

Thanks to you gyppielou for clarifying - and no need to apologize...like Maggi said, sometimes the written word just doesn't sound like it would from my lips to your ears (and I know you meant to say Joan not Jane) :).

Now that that's out of the way: I'm glad you used Olivine pools as an example. When we arrived there, we used our COMMON SENSE and decided it looked too steep, too far, and quite slippery. So we sat at the top, enjoyed our picnic lunch, and yes, I regretted not going down there afterwards. But the book had made it seem like a cakewalk! On the other hand, we arrived at the Kalalau trail on a very dry beautiful day, and it was EASIER than the book had made it seem. So yes, if everyone would use their common sense - and their manners, the book might not be taking so much heat.

And Kal, thanks for typing so slowly. It really helped. However, I think you typed the Don Corleone remark too quickly, 'cause I still don't get it...O-)???

Oh it is a sad day////the Godfather has fallen, Marlon Brando has moved on from this world. God bless his soul and those who have gone before him.

>:O

STELLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Thank you....>:D<

LOL!!! Got it!

RIP Brando ((f))

gyppielou, kal, everyone: I agree wholeheartedly. The books are good guides, but only guides. The written word is no substitute for common sense, changing conditions and most of all, respect for the locals. Visiting these places is a funny mixed feeling, isn't it? We want to experience it ourselves, but we don't want everyone else tramping in to ruin it. Mankind seems to have this tendency to ruin the very thing it admires.

I agree, we should all write to blue and ask them to incorporate manners when traveling. People do get excited and they forget themselves. I think Blue does owe something to the island also.

It won't destroy the real dangers to Hawaii's environment, huge hotels, run off from golf courses, constant development, pieces of land that should be in a trust for Hawaiians, handed over to developers, handed over to the U.S military if only to sun on the beach with (bellows)... but of course courtesy should be important to any visitor. I am not being sarcastic, its true we have a responsiblity.

I remember having a lovely conversation with a family on the salt ponds in front of the Turtle Bay hotel, north shore Oahu. While they were talking with us they were opening film and chucking the wrappers right on the salt ponds/beds. I was with a native and I did not even notice it. The people were nice, I was engaged in conversation but then my friend pointed out all the trash and how the man had done this while we spoke, looking out at the ocean. ...all the trash they left in such a beautiful spot. UNBELIEVABLE!!! FROM NICE PEOPLE!!! Count the cigarette butts at makapu lookout!!! And no sign about litter last I checked. ...might scare off tourists.

For every person who is a slob and drops trash on the ground there are 10 people who respect the environment. If each of us picks up one piece of trash and disposes of it we could impact this problem in a practical way. We can teach our children to respect the environment and not to litter. We can also politely say, "Excuse me, I think you dropped this...". We are little too polite (or cowardly?) here in the States. Peer pressure can be a mighty tool.

as a maui resident...we hate the blue book.
i live on the backside of the west maui mountains and now have to deal with hundreds of cars going the wrong way on our one lane road (recommended direction is north from kapalua , then around to kahakaloa, waihee, wailuku). olivigne pools
is a name made up by the authors, locals
know when not to go near there, but tourists dont understand that weather is a factor on ALL outdoor activities. opihi pickers die every year from that area from waves knocking them into the ocean.
the only one i know who benefits from the blue book (besides the authors) is auntie julia (best banana bread on the planet)

hi DivaDiva,

What I don't understand is that why so much condemnation for the book and not for Hawaii county and state government to protect some areas, create laws.

I know that this is not directly related to your scenario but I have seen places like the Maunoa Falls (sp) on Oahu get over crowded from tour buses. I also just heard that there are tour shuttles to the Waipio Valley on the big island. Just don't understand how residents are not up in arms over those kind of allowances. Not an argument in defense of wizard publications just don't understand why hawaii does not protect hawaii at the government level anyway.

Ah Sarah,
you make an excellent point.

The "Blue Books" have inspired sharing of knowledge and the beauty of mother earth.

Perhaps now they will take an active roll in preserving what they have revealed.

Yes the Islands' governing parties must take an extremely aggressive approach to prevent future encroachment on the land and the people. Maybe these books are their wake up call.

Wow, I must say I like that line I just wrote.


PERHAPS NOW, THEY WILL TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLL IN PRESERVING WHAT THEY HAVE REVEALED.

Gyppielou

Actually, the government is trying to preserve these places, but it is a blancing act to let some people enjoy them, but not let them become overrun with people and cars.

Manoa falls, for example has very little parking. For a while, stinky tour busses would bring big groups (and it's all profit as the trail is free), cars parked illegaly all over the neighborhood, and the mountain bike tours started coming. It was crazy. There were fights over the parking and right of way on the trails and erosion was becoming a problem. On top of that, it is quite dangerous when raining. People are lifted out on helicopters (dead and alive) with some frequency.

Finally the city closed the trail to all commercial activities. Ahh, peace in the neighborhood, until some guides started using unmarked vehicles and working for "donations". I dread the publication of the Oahu version of the book...

The counties and the state simply do not have the manpower or budget enforce the laws we have. Vandals remove warning signs, the government gets sued. If they shut trails, hikers scream they deserve access. No one wants to pay for parking or entry. (See what happened at Hanauma BAy)

The big problem with the BB is it encourages people to trespass, trample and put themselves at risk. People who don't even know they're doing so, and wouldn't if the book didn't print these "tips."

Thre is only so much we can expect the local, state or federal government to do. In the case of the Ahihi-Kinau Reserve, it looks like the answer is to close it off entirely for now. But what do you suggest be done in regards to private property? I will quote the book regarding Waioka Pool "Near the Hana side of the bridge is an opening in the fence or gate and a trail toward the ocean." There is no "opening in the fence," but there most certainly is a gate that one must climb over to access the trail. Apparently a fence and locked gate means different things to different people? And then there are those who park on residents' lawns because there simply is no public parking here, and no shoulder. So the obvious answer is to pull onto the lawn across the street.

There are waterfalls in the book that can only be accessed by passing through land owned by Alexander & Baldwin, which is clearly posted. A&B is terribly concerned about liability issues, especially after a group of visitors were caught in a flash flood and ended up stranded overnight in a lava tube this past winter. The rescue team worked all night to get them out. The hikers found their way there via Maui Reviled.

What about the advice in the book that is sending people to swim in pools that are part of the East Maui Irrigation watershed and into land that is zoned restricted use or conservation zones? The areas are already designated for restricted use, private property is posted as such. Do you suggest that we add more law enforcement to patrol these areas now that the book tells people to ignore the kapus?

Maui is working hard to restrict commercial use of public areas. We are limiting licenses for commcercial beach use, closing off areas and restricting use of other areas. We live on a small island with very limited resources and the concept of malama `aina can no longer be ignored. But the issue that many take with these books is unrelated to commercial use. It has to do with large numbers of trespassers, encouraging people to ignore warnings, and putting people in harm's way, as was the case in the recent drownings at the so-called Olivine Pools.

Think of it like this: Let's say you live in a rural area, with single lane roads. You have a swimming hole on your property. Local kids come and swim there sometimes. You know the kids and you have no problems with them swimming there. Now, someone comes along and publishes a book that touts your swimming hole as the mother of all swimming spots. Suddenly you have hundreds of cars parking along the single lane road, traffic in and out all day, and groups of strangers walking through your field on their way to the swimming pond. They leave human waste since you have no facilities, they leave their garbage, cigarette butts, beer cans. And some of them come with a sense of entitlement because the book told them they could swim there. So no you feel forced to put up a fence, but it does not deter them, they keep coming, climbing over the fence, ignoring your wrnings. You could call the local sherriff, but how many times is he going to send a man out to shoo away these visitors, especially if a) his resources are limited, and b) the visitors are spending money in town? Would you be a bit angry at the people who published the book?

interesting thread....was calling it "Maui Reviled" intentional or a misprint? LOL!
anyway, i bought and read these books before trips to Kauai and Maui. although packed with info they also had an "attitude" to them that was a bit off-putting, like these authors OWN the islands and their word is the last word on what you need to see and do to truly, authentically, legitimately, experience Kauai and Maui.
well, not IMO. i saw and did stuff that they either turned their noses up at or failed to even mention. some of the stuff they say you MUST DO i didn't do (most significantly drive the Road to Hana..we flew over it in a helicopter instead, so sue me!!) and i still left those beautiful islands feeling that i had seen and done some cool stuff.
the idea that these books are encouraging people to go ahead and trespass on private property and visit dangerous places (i didn't do or see the Olivine Pools either...forty lashes!) really bothers me. the idea of doing stuff just to add it to THE OFFICIAL LIST, even if it's ecologically irresponsible, illegal, or life threatening doesn't make much sense to me.

So glad to see you on this thread here-today-gone-2.........been waiting for you to show yourself!!! muchos importanto!!

message to gone 2 maui...
excellent description of what is happening
on our island. maui is magical, beautiful
and it amazes me everyday....and we need to keep it that way. so many areas are getting overrun with hordes of people...and its hard to deny tourists access...but ......
people forget the rights of property owners or they do not realize that someone actually owns that waterfall...or the trail that leads to it. i was building a house on the backside of
the west maui mountains...3/4 of the way around and had car after car pull up and use my portable toilet....only one they saw near the road... disregarding my private property
rights and signs. oh well...ya gotta go, ya gotta go! just a sample of how peoples needs and desires overrule rights and common sense.
i do like to share my island...i just hope people will respect the aina...including the authors of the blue book .