Artists/progressives relocate: PNW or Asheville?
Oct 22nd, 2005, 07:49 AM
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Artists/progressives relocate: PNW or Asheville?
Hi there.
I stumbled on a couple relocation threads on this site, so I figured I would post my own current dilemma.
It seems many of you are in my boat - just turned 30, planning to have kids shortly, have done the long commutes and rat race corporate job and are looking for a change.
My wife and I are from the northeast, and met in FL. We both dispise the heat down here, lack of hiking, lack of progressive minded (greens, artists, etc) 20-50 somethings. Heck, I will take a progressive 70 something, but that just aint happening around here.
6 years ago we considered leaving FL for Boston, Seattle or SF. We ended up in San Francisco, falling in love with the outdoors there and open-minded people. But we never seemed to find quite the right place there, and just moved back to FL to be more involved with family.
Needless to say, that boat just aint floating any more... we are beginning to sink and are once again searching. FL just doesnt inspire us to thrive.
After a recent trip up and down the east coast, we have removed boston from our list. But a surprising location has been added - Asheville, NC. While it's a bit small, it has a feel of Berkeley and Santa Cruz, but in a quaint little mountain village. I always imagined that Seattle or Portland would have a neighborhood like this - lively coffeehouses, every shop with fair-trade, everything organic, people just looking different and unique. All the while feeling cozy and friendly.
We visited Seattle in August years back and did alot of backpacking in the mountains. It was beautiful, but we just never took the risk of dealing with the rain. When I think inately of what calls to me, its the Pacific Northwest. But now Asheville feels like a little PNW right here in the southeast.
Anyone have thoughts on Asheville, or PNW? Anyone else find themselves in a similar situation?
I stumbled on a couple relocation threads on this site, so I figured I would post my own current dilemma.
It seems many of you are in my boat - just turned 30, planning to have kids shortly, have done the long commutes and rat race corporate job and are looking for a change.
My wife and I are from the northeast, and met in FL. We both dispise the heat down here, lack of hiking, lack of progressive minded (greens, artists, etc) 20-50 somethings. Heck, I will take a progressive 70 something, but that just aint happening around here.
6 years ago we considered leaving FL for Boston, Seattle or SF. We ended up in San Francisco, falling in love with the outdoors there and open-minded people. But we never seemed to find quite the right place there, and just moved back to FL to be more involved with family.
Needless to say, that boat just aint floating any more... we are beginning to sink and are once again searching. FL just doesnt inspire us to thrive.
After a recent trip up and down the east coast, we have removed boston from our list. But a surprising location has been added - Asheville, NC. While it's a bit small, it has a feel of Berkeley and Santa Cruz, but in a quaint little mountain village. I always imagined that Seattle or Portland would have a neighborhood like this - lively coffeehouses, every shop with fair-trade, everything organic, people just looking different and unique. All the while feeling cozy and friendly.
We visited Seattle in August years back and did alot of backpacking in the mountains. It was beautiful, but we just never took the risk of dealing with the rain. When I think inately of what calls to me, its the Pacific Northwest. But now Asheville feels like a little PNW right here in the southeast.
Anyone have thoughts on Asheville, or PNW? Anyone else find themselves in a similar situation?
Oct 22nd, 2005, 08:22 AM
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From what you describe, you would find more kindred souls in the PNW, as it covers a much larger area. You would have to deal with the overcast skies, fog and rain, though. It doesn't bother a lot of people, but one can't predict beforehand. It definitely keeps people away, and we are crowded enough. Don't tell anyone, but last winter was beautiful unless you were a snowboarder or skier. If this is due to climate change, you won't find the winters so bad here. In summer, we may have to think about installing ac if this keeps up. Most of us just leave our windows open and sometimes have to use a fan to bring in the cool night air.
Oct 22nd, 2005, 08:43 AM
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PS. I should add that I lived in Chapel Hill for two years and absolutely loved NC. I've lived a LOT of places and NC and Oregon are my favorite states. That said, I don't know that much about Ashville, but that people really like it. I don't think you can really go wrong in either. Being close to family can be important, and the PNW is a looong haul across the country.
Oct 22nd, 2005, 08:51 AM
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Hey Orcas.
I actually camped on Orcas Island on my trip to Seattle. It is truly beautiful up there.
I actually love fog - the way it dissected the California hills was amazing. But I admit the rainy season wore on me a bit in SF. I took a trip to San Diego while still in Cali, but was overwhelmed by the military presence, and just wasn't impressed with the hiking and greenery (or lack thereof).
I agree with the statement that there would be more kindred souls in the PNW vs Asheville, as Asheville is a tiny oasis amidst the more traditional and conservative southeast. BTW, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I just don't thrive in such surroundings.
The main things that would keep me from the PNW are 1) distance from family and 2) rain. I had a difficult time seeing my family only once a year when I lived in SF, and Seattle, Portland or Vancouver would be even farther away. The rain has discouraged me in the past, but I can tell you that if Seattle is where Asheville is geographically, I would already be there. Overcast doesn't bother me as much as 95 degree heat with full sunshine
I actually camped on Orcas Island on my trip to Seattle. It is truly beautiful up there.
I actually love fog - the way it dissected the California hills was amazing. But I admit the rainy season wore on me a bit in SF. I took a trip to San Diego while still in Cali, but was overwhelmed by the military presence, and just wasn't impressed with the hiking and greenery (or lack thereof).
I agree with the statement that there would be more kindred souls in the PNW vs Asheville, as Asheville is a tiny oasis amidst the more traditional and conservative southeast. BTW, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I just don't thrive in such surroundings.
The main things that would keep me from the PNW are 1) distance from family and 2) rain. I had a difficult time seeing my family only once a year when I lived in SF, and Seattle, Portland or Vancouver would be even farther away. The rain has discouraged me in the past, but I can tell you that if Seattle is where Asheville is geographically, I would already be there. Overcast doesn't bother me as much as 95 degree heat with full sunshine
Oct 22nd, 2005, 08:54 AM
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Out of curiousity, which PNW city is most progressive (like Asheville)? Seattle, Portland or Vancouver? What I mean is, streets of alternative healing centers, yoga, buddhists (tho Im not), organic clothing and foods, coops, all around green community...
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:05 AM
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Ashland Oregon and the Rogue Valley is where you want to be. We made it to the top 5 of small art towns in that guy's list. We're full of galleries, restaurants and mountains, and the weather's much
better than the more northern reaches of the PNW. check out the "where in Oregon" thread.
also:
http://www.atasteofashland.com
http://www.ashlandchamber.com
The economic engine that drives the lower rogue valley is the Oregon Shakespeare Festival-an equity, tony award winning company that operates 39 weeks a year, so hundreds of thousands of tourists, but in a small (20,000)mountain town. Skiing above on Mt. Ashland, Ocean 1 1/2 hours away. It's an artist's
and family's dream area. We escaped Arizona 15 years ago and have never loooked back.
Bill
better than the more northern reaches of the PNW. check out the "where in Oregon" thread.
also:
http://www.atasteofashland.com
http://www.ashlandchamber.com
The economic engine that drives the lower rogue valley is the Oregon Shakespeare Festival-an equity, tony award winning company that operates 39 weeks a year, so hundreds of thousands of tourists, but in a small (20,000)mountain town. Skiing above on Mt. Ashland, Ocean 1 1/2 hours away. It's an artist's
and family's dream area. We escaped Arizona 15 years ago and have never loooked back.
Bill
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:06 AM
#7
I think you have an extremely overly romanticized version of Portland and Seattle(!) while it is certainly some of the things you mention, in some places, I can't think of a anywhere with "STREETS of alternative healing centers, yoga..." All of those things are here but spread throughout the city. I moved to Seattle from back east 20 years ago and never left, Seattle is great IMO. Can you come spend some time here before making your decision? I think either Portland or Seattle would likely suit you, but it's not quite so thoroughly woo-woo as you imagine.
BTW look up historic weather, Seattle doesn't have as much rain as loads of other places. Granted lots of gray drizzly days, but our actual rainfall is not all that much.
BTW look up historic weather, Seattle doesn't have as much rain as loads of other places. Granted lots of gray drizzly days, but our actual rainfall is not all that much.
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:13 AM
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It sounds like you haven't seen much of the Pacific NW besides the Seattle area? Maybe it's time to take another trip out there to see it? For what it's worth, Portland isn't just a smaller Seattle - it's much more laid-back and has a different character. Not as crowded. There are other smaller towns in Oregon you might like too such as Ashland that someone mentioned above.
Andrew
Andrew
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:24 AM
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I spent 10 days in and around Seattle - staying in city limits for a few days. No, I dont recall there being streets filled with progressive shops, but I know there is a strong green community up there. FWIW, Asheville actually was like that
We never made the trip up to Vancouver or Portland - we left the west coast earlier than anticipated...
My read is that Vancouver is more cosmpolitan than Seattle, and Portland is cheaper, with less techy jobs but cheaper living. But thats all I have heard...
We never made the trip up to Vancouver or Portland - we left the west coast earlier than anticipated...
My read is that Vancouver is more cosmpolitan than Seattle, and Portland is cheaper, with less techy jobs but cheaper living. But thats all I have heard...
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:27 AM
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To be fair, we are very open to smaller towns, like Asheville which is 70k population.
I have read that Bellingham is an interesting smaller town...
Ashland is a new one for me. I will check it out. thx
I have read that Bellingham is an interesting smaller town...
Ashland is a new one for me. I will check it out. thx
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:29 AM
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Another quick reply regarding the "laid back" feel of Portland - I was extremely disappointed with how uptight the San Francisco area was in general. Everyone imagines California as being this laid back place, but it's not. Maybe the views are more open-minded, but everyone is struggling to live in tiny little 1 bedroom condos, commuting 2-3 hrs a day. No more of that for me...
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:32 AM
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We fled Florida for all the same reasons you mentioned. We now live in Austin, TX, and it's great! Of course, the best way to experience Austin is to live in the heart of it all (Central Austin) but that costs money. Once you get out in the burbs it's just like any other place and much more conservative. Sorry, can't help with Asheville but just thought I'd throw my two cents in! Good luck!
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:44 AM
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Vancouver is a wonderful city, feels almost European compared to Portland and Seattle. It's about a six hour drive from Portland so a fairly easy weekend car trip.
While Portland's (rising) cost of housing is still the cheapest of the big cities on the west coast, some say the wages are lower to compensate, but I guess that depends on your employment situation. There's a big "green" movement here - recycling is huge, restaurants using all-natural ingredients, etc. Lots of bike lanes, lots of hybrid cars. Some neighborhoods have a bit of a hippie feel.
Portland is probably the least diverse of all the three cities you mention - it's like 73% white! Paradoxially, it's also a very liberal city and everyone preaches tolerance. Bush is reviled here except in the suburbs which like most other places are much more conservative than the urban neighborhoods.
Portland is kind of a big small town instead of a small city. It's a mix of both. Portland does have a forward-thinking urban growth boundary to prevent sprawl outside the city limits (but enforces a certain density within it). We have better mass transit than Seattle - a light rain train system , a new streetcar, and a good bus system. I think people are friendlier here than in Seattle. It's a much easier city to get your arms around that Seattle but, perhaps, less to do. We have great parks within the city, a good quality of life, etc.
There are tech jobs (Intel Corporation's biggest campus is in the suburb of Hillsboro) and there was lots of dot.com stuff here that got wiped out after the 2000 tech bubble, but the economy is starting to come around.
The Pearl district is the hot yuppie district these days, with tons of shiny new condos in an old warehouse district, but there are also some terrific old urban neighborhoods close to downtown with great houses. So you really have your choice of lifestyles. If you have kids, might worry about the schools as Portland and the state of Oregon have been struggling with school funding and Portland has cut the length of the school years a few times.
Andrew
While Portland's (rising) cost of housing is still the cheapest of the big cities on the west coast, some say the wages are lower to compensate, but I guess that depends on your employment situation. There's a big "green" movement here - recycling is huge, restaurants using all-natural ingredients, etc. Lots of bike lanes, lots of hybrid cars. Some neighborhoods have a bit of a hippie feel.
Portland is probably the least diverse of all the three cities you mention - it's like 73% white! Paradoxially, it's also a very liberal city and everyone preaches tolerance. Bush is reviled here except in the suburbs which like most other places are much more conservative than the urban neighborhoods.
Portland is kind of a big small town instead of a small city. It's a mix of both. Portland does have a forward-thinking urban growth boundary to prevent sprawl outside the city limits (but enforces a certain density within it). We have better mass transit than Seattle - a light rain train system , a new streetcar, and a good bus system. I think people are friendlier here than in Seattle. It's a much easier city to get your arms around that Seattle but, perhaps, less to do. We have great parks within the city, a good quality of life, etc.
There are tech jobs (Intel Corporation's biggest campus is in the suburb of Hillsboro) and there was lots of dot.com stuff here that got wiped out after the 2000 tech bubble, but the economy is starting to come around.
The Pearl district is the hot yuppie district these days, with tons of shiny new condos in an old warehouse district, but there are also some terrific old urban neighborhoods close to downtown with great houses. So you really have your choice of lifestyles. If you have kids, might worry about the schools as Portland and the state of Oregon have been struggling with school funding and Portland has cut the length of the school years a few times.
Andrew
Oct 22nd, 2005, 09:46 AM
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Well, I would only say that the RV is filled with folks like you. Lots of food lovers,wineries, nature lovers, etc. Between the 2 counties, Jackson and Josephine, you've got about 280,000 bodies, distributed in a bunch of small towns plus a few bigger ones. Depends on whether you're the self generating type who wants to forge their own way, I'd say.
check out the public radio site; that'll give you a feel for the State of Jefferson.
http://www.jeffnet.org
check out the public radio site; that'll give you a feel for the State of Jefferson.
http://www.jeffnet.org
Oct 22nd, 2005, 01:03 PM
#17
As I was driving around Seattle today thinking of your post, my best suggestion is: Eugene, Oregon!!!
While every Seattle neighborhood has the independent coffee shops, etc. in many popular ones there are more piercing and tattoo shops than yoga studios. It is a more "edgy" city to my eye than what you describe.
Aren't there issues with Vancouver because it is in Canada, assuming you are U.S. citizens and will need to find employment?
While every Seattle neighborhood has the independent coffee shops, etc. in many popular ones there are more piercing and tattoo shops than yoga studios. It is a more "edgy" city to my eye than what you describe.
Aren't there issues with Vancouver because it is in Canada, assuming you are U.S. citizens and will need to find employment?
Oct 22nd, 2005, 02:19 PM
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I think you need to take some trips. We just spent 10 days in Oregon -- from Portland, (Personally, I loved Portland as it is a walkable city) through the Willamette wine country, down the exquisite Pacific Coast (un-swim-able but true visual overload!!!) to Coos Bay, a jet boat ride on the Rogue River (we stayed with friends who live in logging country and THAT was astoundingly gorgeous). Then we drove up to Crater Lake and on to Bend, OR (which you might want to check out if you think you want to make the move to the PNW) which is quite near Mt Hood (skiing until August), then up to the Columbia River Gorge, which is also mind-boggling.
On the other-hand, North Carolina is closer to your family-ties and if you haven't spent some time in the Durham/Chapel Hill area, you are missing out on a place that seems to have everything you are looking for...although it isn't as close to mountains as Asheville (which it sounds like you've already seen.) I would think it is definitely worth a long weekend before you contemplate moving cross-country. You should probably visit any community once in summer and once in winter/fall before you decide for sure.
On the other-hand, North Carolina is closer to your family-ties and if you haven't spent some time in the Durham/Chapel Hill area, you are missing out on a place that seems to have everything you are looking for...although it isn't as close to mountains as Asheville (which it sounds like you've already seen.) I would think it is definitely worth a long weekend before you contemplate moving cross-country. You should probably visit any community once in summer and once in winter/fall before you decide for sure.
Oct 22nd, 2005, 05:11 PM
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I get the impression North Carolina might work better for you...you wouldn't have to deal with the gray & rain of the PNW (which you seem a bit ambivalent about) AND you would be closer to your family. I kind of got the impression from you first note that part of the reason maybe SFO didn't quite fly - and that you didn't set out directly from there to the PNW - was family related.
Either way, good luck! We just moved to a geographical area closer to our liking and couldn't be more pleased that we took the plunge!
Either way, good luck! We just moved to a geographical area closer to our liking and couldn't be more pleased that we took the plunge!
Oct 23rd, 2005, 09:41 AM
#20
As mentioned above, it seems like North Carolina might more give you what you are looking for. While I dearly love PNW, if you moved out west and moved back once already, maybe continue looking along the eastern seaboard makes for sense for your situation?
Hey, how about Brattleboro, Vermont? Great town.
Hey, how about Brattleboro, Vermont? Great town.
