Are writers letting the forum write their articles?
 

I've seen a number of threads lately that I suspected were started by magazine writers (or even book authors) who thought it would be a quick and easy way to research their articles -- the one on best college towns and more recently the one on where to go to recuperate from life trauma. But I swear I've seen some of our threads in the NYTimes. <BR> <BR>Does anyone else have the same suspicion? Does this bother anyone else? It does me -- these people will be making their per-word fee without ever getting up off their duffs; and worse, people will be reading their articles believing they have personal expertise in whatever the subject is.... <BR> <BR>Journalism has gotten shoddier and shoddier in recent years. This kind of lazy "piracy" involves being dishonest with Fodorites and dishonest with the readers.

I, too, have my doubts if these are legitimate psoters. Seems like very broad based questions to be of use to any one particular traveler. People should be cautious about writing anything too personal that they don't want to wind up in print. And yes, you're right that we're going to be reading a lot of travel magazine articles that don't really provide much hands on insight.

If your hypothesis is correct we're going to see a lot of articles on why fat people, babies & animals shouldn't fly & why Hawaii is the best, safest most orgasmic destination on the planet.

Yes. <BR>One of my own phrases was used in the Practical Traveler. I could not believe it. There has been several coincidences where a subject was on this site and a few weeks later it became a topic in USA(less) Today, WSJ or NYTimes. <BR> <BR>I combat this by placing choice tid-bits that are false within suspected posts, hoping to nail the offender. The key is to have some other source state the same tid-bit so the journalist can triangulate the 'fact', believe it is true and go to print. Won't say how I do this, though. <BR> <BR>I am personally not surprised, as journalists do not provide anything with a "net positive" value to the universe, planet, humanity, or anything with dna. I suspect that one becomes a journalist from the shoulders of parents/family that are on the lower portion of the social/economic ladder or new to the American way; that they are one of the first to receive a college degree in their families. Not that this is bad, but a natural step in ones desire to be better than where they came from. I am always hopeful that children of journalists will continue the natural upward progression and recognize there are much better ways to spend time than being a journalist.

I think tour operators are also using the knowledgeable people on this forum for recommendations as well.

xxx-Journalism and communications is one of the easiest majors in college. No math required. IMO, people major in Journalism because they are not intelligent enough to pass the harder courses.

Wow, that's a new twist. If true, it would be the pinnacle of laziness, a journalistic disgrace. <BR> <BR>PS I think cynic nailed it and I admire the devious approach of xxx to smoking out a mole. But pity the poor, trusting soul who faithfully follows the sordid path of the false choice tid-bit...

Oh please don't go down the "bashing journalists" trail. Some of us loyal Fodorites fall under that very job category. I earned my Bachelors in Journalism (majoring in advertising and marketing) simply because I love to write, not because I was dodging what you call 'hard classes.' I don't know what college you went to but we were required to take math, finance and other so-called toughies--we're not all scumbag carpetbaggers like you're describing, though there are certainly a few journalists who are (pretty much everyone on tv with the exception of FOX news people). I can also think of a few physicians, attorneys, accountants, engineers, etc. etc. etc. who are total jerks...shall we diss them now????

Yes, I'm afraid journalism, and for that matter, education, draws the less able students in most universities. This is criminal in our society because we depend on the information we get to be good citizens, yet the sources and filters for that information are usually poorly prepared. <BR> <BR>BUT that's not their fault -- some of them try really hard, and there are stars in every class who are the equal of most of the rest of the student body. <BR> <BR>Two kinds of fault: those who plan the curriculum -- teaching communication skills (writing, pedagogy) without DEMANDING knowledge of content (math, politics, etc.); and those who hire these people and put them to work demanding communication skills (slick writing, slick presentation) without DEMANDING knowledge of the topic. <BR> <BR>The newspaper and magazine editors -- some of whom have had all editorial budget cut in favor of advertising and promotion staffs -- just churn it out, not caring if the major source of information comes from other media or, way too often, from press releases from companies with something to sell. Travel pages are nothing more than long advertising supplements with some parts noted to be ads and other parts pretending to be copy -- but you'd better believe most of the content comes from the same people who advertise in the section. <BR> <BR>So if some of the columns come from things said right here, it's dishonest and rips off Fodors, too. But it's a least a little more "enterprise" or "investigatory" reporting than just pulling off the wire service or a press release. <BR> <BR>Our free press is bought and paid for, and the press labor force is the cheapest they can get away with. The quality of training is irrelevant.

I'll just say up front that I'm a former journalist, and that I became an accountant because journalism pays so poorly. <BR> <BR>It's obvious that many of the posters are the same people who say all lawyers are ambulance chasers and all teachers leave school at 3 p.m. Just like any other profession, journalism has its bad apples. And like the law and politics, our bad apples are very public figures. But most writers and editors are just like everyone else--they try to do their best at their job everyday. <BR> <BR>By the way, most J schools require students to either double major or minor in another area, such as politics or economics, to ensure the broad-based knowledge necessary for a reporter to succeed. <BR> <BR>I'm not defending all reporters, because some are lazy and sloppy and unethical. But so are some accountants, programmers, financial analysts, receptionists, web masters, etc.

Of course, you're right, Jane -- that there are some bad apples and sparkling diamonds every where. What bothers me is the fact that such a small portion of the general public has any idea where the information they read actually comes from. <BR> <BR>As for a 2nd major or minor with journalism: many do not require that, and be honest, among those that do, isn't that second subject more often something like public relations, marketing, or English lit? We see about a hundred a year graduate in Journalism. Of those maybe 5-10 have actually majored in a substantive other subject like politics, economics, or history. And how many of those do you suppose end up actually working eventually for major (or even local) publishers?

...With all due respect to English lit, maketing, etc. -- I was just focusing on subjects that would give a working print journalist a specific area of reporter's expertise.

I learned a long time ago that the best info on a place is from someone who was just there and their impressions. I like the first hand reports and find them helpful. I don't rely on journalists and realize their imformation sources are old or biased. <BR>I will keep posting my experiences and reading others. I would hope people give genuine impressions, good or bad.

May I hazard a different approach? Wow, I think it's great ... quote me, quote me, quote me ... use my experience, expertise, emotions to your heart's content. My mom would be so proud ... all those trips finally paid off. And I get my 15 minutes. So, seriously, someone uses our words for commerial purposes ... is there a huge ownership or poaching problem here? If they wish to fall back upon us, any of us, way cool, I say. The NY Times, WSJ, etc. ... BIG TIME! Ciao, and have a good weekend.

"Concerned" writes: <BR> <BR> <BR>"People should be cautious about writing anything too personal that they don't want to wind up in print." <BR> <BR>What do you mean? You must realize that you are voluntarily offering your words for free every time you post here. You are, in fact, publishing your remarks. What difference where they wind up since there is no limit to the number of people who can see them here. <BR> <BR>Think about it...

Get.Real.You.Fools makes a good point. Perhaps we should use the "but will you still mean that in the morning" guideline when posting remarks. Ciao

If we really care about this, simply add a Copr "name", 2001 at the end of every post. <BR> <BR>This protects your writing. You can do this in Word, say, before posting. Your words are your own and were before you posted them on Fodors. It is your option to share anywhere you want. Thus, you retain the rights. <BR> <BR>All you have to do to protect what you write in almost all cases is simply put a copyright statement on the paper or writing. [Do this at the Dr. office so your information won't make it into some publication without your consent.] <BR> <BR>Much ado about nothing, since most of these posts are not as complete as any journalist's story

Thanks, GOL, you're very enlightening. Typical EDU-based thinking. We sit through the lecture on copyright process, only to be told what's being posted is much ado about nothing and not up to journalism standards anyway. Well, GOL, it would seem you've wasted your time on us. By the way, your ideas seem a bit facile, but one sees that so often in an EDU environment. Obviously you're in a liberal arts department somewhere, w/o a shred of legal training in the field.

You mean the way Tony posts hundreds of individual questions asking what there is to do in all these nondescript places he plans to visit? He wants to use all the information given to him on Fodor's to publish a travel book. Trouble is, there's no market for this book. <BR> <BR>Get ready for his own special brand of hot air...he WILL NOT be able to resist this. It's pretty easy to bait him and reel him in. :) <BR>

(Hoewy cwap, a NEW form of prejudice: anti ".edu"!!!! My goodness, will the powers of negative generalization never end? But then I look at the bigot's name -- "ty one on?" Now there's an assertion of rational thinking.) <BR> <BR>Yes, you can certainly add a copyright claim to whatever you post, but the courts are still very far from being clear about how copyright works on electronic media -- above all, how in heck to enforce protections and penalize infringements. Napster is a test case, but that's actually very, very simple compared to how complicated intellectual property gets out there. <BR> <BR>In other words, you can try to copyright the golden posts you've submitted here, but if they're "borrowed," you have little or no way to proof or punish that. Free for all at the moment. <BR> <BR>And Leone, it would be great for you and your mother if the light-fingered journalists actually named you but of course they don't. I'd sort of agree with you -- go ahead, quote me -- but they will never ask your permission let alone the correct spelling of your name because they won't attribute it to you; they'll take credit for it themselves. <BR> <BR>(Oh, and "TY" -- I'm a liberal arts major who knows very well what's going on in the courts. Some of us have been in law classes or at least been known to read. Is this a case of Ivy-envy?)