Agree. Prices have risen, yet quality has not kept pace. <BR> <BR>Guess that's why I go to Italy once (sometimes twice) a year for an AWESOME plate of pasta. YUM-yum --- I can still remember that wonderfully flavorful pasta with cinghale sauce (wild boar) at this charming trattoria in Mazzolla (‘Trattoria Albana’). <BR> <BR>Sorry, I’ll get myself back to the Europe forum . . . . <BR>

I don't understand - who is forcing you people into these restaurants and forcing you to order $20 pasta off a menu filled with other entrees?

Gary: You just don't get it, do you? We're talking V-A-L-U-E, is that concept to difficult for you to understand? Do you think that a restaurant that charges $20 for pasta is going to have deals on the seafood and meat dishes? Go back under your rock! <BR> <BR>Or as Leone would say.....Ciao

Fed Up, you're eating in the wrong places. If you don't want to pay $20 for pasta, don't eat there. It's not rocket science, you know.

This has been a most interesting thread ... certainly makes me feel better when I opt to stay home and cook. I'm in DC too, and frankly, $100 for pasta is a bit over the top. Perhaps it's preferable to do that type of thing at home (there are literally dozens and dozens of decent pasta cookbooks, especially a neat vegetarian vesrion by a Jack Bishop, I believe). Is it possible we could now redirect this thread into pasta lovers among us offering a favorite recipe? I'd certainly give them all a try, except those obviously desigend to do me in for my rather rash observations. Ciao

Hey Fedup - you have some serious anger issues. Instead of spending so much money on restaurants, you should save up your money and go see a good shrink.

Dearest Fed Up, <BR> <BR>I'm not in the restaurant industry. In fact, I rarely eat out in nice restaurants because I don't think you get sufficient value for the money compared with what I can do at home or what I can get at the local humble restaurant. <BR> <BR>So what's the difference between us? Well, one of us gets taken for $100 for pasta, does it again and again, and then whines about it on the Internet. <BR> <BR>Curious: everyone has had a restaurant meal that wasn't worth the money. Everyone has also had a haircut/hotel/watermelon/apartment/etc that wasn't worth the money. Yes, you should alert people if you found a trendy place that wasn't good. <BR> <BR>But FedUp wasn't saying the pasta wasn't yummy. He/she just wants to complain as he/she saunters into yet another highpriced restaurant. Well, go ahead, but don't expect sympathy from me. <BR> <BR>Bye. Gotta go soak some beans for a Mexican feast tonight.

Buy a pound of good quality ground sirloin, an onion, a green pepper, a can of crushed tomatoes (the one with oregano & garlic is good), a 'knorr' beef boullion, some good quality olive oil and some cinnamon. <BR> <BR>Cut up the onion and green pepper. Brown the meat with the onion, green pepper and beef boullion, making sure the meat is completely broken up. After the meat's browned, stir in the can of tomatoes. Cover and simmer for about 25 minutes. Stir occasionally and break up any large pieces of meat you may have missed. After 25 minutes, add about 1/4 cup olive oil and about a teaspoon of cinnamon to the sauce and stir it in. Simmer sauce another 5 minutes. Serve over spaghetti with some grated locatelli romano. VOILA - a delicious variation of Greek Spaghetti.

To There No More <BR> <BR>I LOVE cornbread crumbled into buttermilk--learned it at my Alabama-born father's knee. I live in CA where people flee when I even mention it.

Fedup - Look at Gary's email address - Indiana, and who knows where x or some of the others who keep telling everyone not to eat $ 20 pasta are from. They obviously live in areas where it is possible to find a restaurant that actually serves pasta for less than $ 20 a plate and therefore can't possibly relate to the situation of those of us who would love to find such places. Believe me, if I could find good, less expensive places I would go! I think Fedup's point (you can tell me if I'm wrong here) is that it's getting harder and harder to justify the prices for dining out considering the mediocre meals that are served. Yes, there are a very few good restaurants, but by and large it is not the isolated incident where the diner feels "ripped off". I bet if I were in Indiana I'd be able to find some great food at reasonable prices - it just isn't possible everywhere.

But curious, it seems that you live in a high cost area. So do I. So what? Housing prices here have gone through the roof, and lots of other things seem to cost a lot (have you seen the prices for popcorn at the movies?) Why should restaurants in a high cost area be the only thing that is low cost?

My name is not indicative of my location. I live in New York and I don't know of many places where the cost of living is higher, but I would never pay $20 for pasta. There are plety of excellent pasta restaurants in New York that don't charge that much. Among my favorites are Grano Trattoria, I Coppi, and Piccolo Angulo. Where the hell do you live curious that you cant find a reasonably priced restaurant?

I didn't say they should be low cost. I don't expect them to be low cost. I do expect that when I pay over $ 100 for a meal that it should taste delicious and my husband should not have to come home and make a sandwich (He is thin in case your thinking he's a glutton). Apparently there are some who don't agree with me. Sorry, it's just what I expect. Some people don't expect much so I guess it doesn't bother them.

Gary, just read your reply and am writing down the names of the restaurants that are great and inexpensive. We are going to the city on Saturday (my husband commutes in everyday). Yes, he can find good inexpensive restaurants in the city too, he loves Republic in Union Square(we'll go there for lunch Sat - can't wait) Lupa, and Pizza Fresca all in that area. As he says there are a lot more choices in the city than at home - which is in Fairfield county. I keep asking for suggestions but so far no one has come up with any for me. I do admit to knowing one good reasonable place - Pasta Vera on Greenwich Avenue. But that is absolutely the only one I know of. Anyone else?

Next Time: The $20 plate of pasta is a Metaphor for all of the rip-offs. The $400 hotel room that is the size of a closet, the $2000 studio apartment in a walk-up tenament that was built at the turn of the last century and was last renovated when FDR was president, get the picture. It's not about the plate of pasta per se it is all of the egregious rip-offs we encounter every day from the $3.50 cup of coffee to the $8.00 sandwich that leaves you hungry. <BR> <BR>Curious, Ess and others seem to get it! <BR> <BR>Gary: Why would someone who lives in Manhattan use Gary Indiana as a his name. Lofty aspirations?

Well, there you have it. FedUp has finally realized that this whole "$20 for pasta argument" doesn't hold water. Even curious is making a totally different (and more valid) point -- it's tough to get a good, reasonably priced meal in her high-priced neighborhood. So now he's whining about everything else in the world that is more than he wants to pay. Yawn. <BR> <BR>Oh, FedUp, you left off the cost of diamonds. How could anyone charge $20,000 for a small stone? LOL!

OH, pasta is a METAPHOR!! NOW I get it!!! So the game has changed and now we're talking about how Fedup is fed up with ALL ripoffs. <BR> <BR>C'mon Fedup, give us a break. If you think something is a ripoff you know what to do. Don't give them your business.

X: <BR> <BR>Gee, who'd have thought of that - don't give them the business. How original.

Next Time and x: <BR> <BR>You 2 are unbelievably dense! It's perfectly clear to anyone with a working brain that FedUp's first post that $20 pasta was just meant as an example. Doesn't anyone know how to read anymore? It's no wonder so many people let themselves get ripped off.

I agree with you, Fedup. My husband and I recently went on vacation with our three kids. We were appalled and how much we were shelling out every meal for food. At least at home there are places that we can pay $4 or $5 a person and get a decent meal. But there weren't any of THOSE places. We were paying $12 to $20 a person for meals. That's a lot easier to handle when you have two people than when there's five. We ended up just buying cereal and sandwich stuff at breakfast and lunch and only eating out one meal a day to cut down expenses. Other people had their kids and were shelling out the money. I guess they have more of it than I do! <BR> <BR>And like Fedup, many times I felt TOTALLY ripped off. Like one night we paid $113 for dinner and the service was lousy and the food was lousy. Left feeling like I'd been screwed - cause I had.

I am appalled at the cost of food in many of the states. Recently, my sister and I had to go to Montana. 2 burgers and 2 beers cost us $22/US. Here, in rural Alberta, we could have had 3 or 4 wines with our burgers for that cost (including exchange). In Great Falls Montana, at a great steak house (food is wonderful, no complaints about that) you pay +$20/US for the steak and then have to pay extra for salad or pototo or both. <BR> <BR>In Calgary, at the Owl's Nest, which is rated one of the top restaurants in Canada, for a 5 course meal, the cost is about $26 - $35/Cdn. (no drinks of course). I cannot understand why I would pay more (with exchange) for a burger in Shelby, Montana than for a 5 course meal at the Owl's Nest.

Didn't realize how lucky I am. Entrees at my two favorite Mexican restaurants are $6-11, including beans, rice, chips and fresh salsas. Pleasant atmospheres,too. My steak place is about $18 including great salad bar and to-die-for beer cheese soup. <BR> <BR>Pasta is a rip-off. Make it at home! We can our home-grown tomatoes -- hard to beat. <BR>

curious - i am a bit curious, too, about what you expected moving to fairfield county - one of the priciest nyc suburban areas. for the record, there are plenty of reasonably-priced restaurants in nyc where the pasta is well under $20 a plate and you'll have an enjoyable dining experience. do the research yourself, though. and quit whining.

To Ess: "Don't go there" may not be original, but common sense rarely is. <BR> <BR>I'm starting to get the impression you folks enjoy getting ripped off so you have a little something to talk about on fodors.com.

X, you guessed it! Ok, I won't go there. Just 'cuz you said so, but I sure do love getting ripped off so I can gripe about it on fodors.com! Damn! Busted!

Ess: Behind your sarcasm lies a certain degree of truth or you wouldn't have reacted that way.

Gee Antonia, why so nasty? I know there are plenty of great places in NYC, If you read my previous posts you would see that I acknowledged that. Also "Do the research yourself"? Isn't that the purpose of this site? to ask questions and get answers from fellow travelers? You must be new here so I'll fill you in. People come here to get answers and help fellow travelers with their queries. Sometimes we discuss our opinions which are generated from these responses. It's sort of a give and take. I failed to find any of the above in your post. If your sole purpose in posting your reply was to tell me to quit whining or question the reasons why I live where I live (which are numerous and quite frankly none of your business), and then to say you know of great places to eat but won't tell me because I can do the "research" myself, then you could have just as easily saved your keystrokes and your time.

Hell-o, has it occurred to you noodles that it’s not the pasta that costs so much, but the “value added” by dint of expensive kitchen staff, high commercial rents, increasingly organized wait or bus staff, natural gas or electricity bills to boil the water to cook the pasta, and so on and so on? As in most of the commercial sector, the relative cost of raw or semi-finished materials (heads of lettuce, anchovy paste) is a shrinking percentage of the total cost of production. Whether it’s a steak that requires minimal labor to prepare or pasta that needs measuring, boiling, draining, tossing, saucing, blah blah, you’re paying for the labor and overhead at Romeo’s, not just the noodles. Sure you can prepare the same meal at home for $1.49 in food cost. But don’t forget to add in the price of your dining table or your gas to the store or the electric bill for the dishwasher. <BR> <BR>Or am I just intruding on another US forum chat room name-calling festival? <BR>

Ess: I like your wit but don't waste your time with dullards. <BR> <BR>Curious: Antonia doesn't realize there is intrinsic value in a home in a good neighborhood, not to mention all of the other fringe benefits. I'm sure that if you decide to sell it you will get a lot more for it than the place where Antonia lives. Interesting how people will equate an INVESTMENT in a home with an overpirced restaurant meal. <BR> <BR>Next Time: The last time I checked, $20,000 bought a pretty big stone, like 3 carats. Again the value and pleasure of good jewelry can't compare to blowing away thousands each year on overpriced restaurant meals. The diamond will be there for a lifetime and might even be passed on to the next generation, I can understand how someone could value that. <BR> <BR>Greenspam: No wonder the economy is in such bad shape. Get back to the Fed and off Fodors.com. As for the financials of running a restaurant, how come some restaurants can offer value and others can't? If a guy opens a restaurant and overpays for rent, wages, etc. should I reward his inefficient operation by paying $20 for a plate of pasta? I don't think so. <BR> <BR>I think I have exhausted my argument. If you don't understand after 60+ messages, I'm wasting my time. See you guys on another thread. Keep enjoying that pasta it will be $25 next year. <BR> <BR>

Fedup - your incisive wit ant brilliant assessment of "value eating" have left us all captives to your aura. Oh please don't leave, share your wisdom some more, pleeeeassse. Because of this, your opus, I'm now looking at every dime I pay to someone in an eatery as blackmail, and asking the minimum-wage tootsie at Denny's for her views on benefit-cost ratios from her viewpoint as user interface. <BR> <BR>I want to send your views up to the National Restaurant Association (the "other" NRA) but they won't accept unattributed manuscripts. Can you post your real email address so that this important message can be delivered to the people who count? Thanks soooo much. <BR> <BR>Meanwhile, I'm off to the movies - the early shows are only $8.75, and the popcorn - wow, what a deal. I tried sneaking in a 99c Big Mac(aroni) but some teenager in a tux stopped me - not allowed to bring in "unauthorized" food, he said. 'Course, I COULD wait for the video (1 yr.) or for the film to get to non-cable TV (10 yrs.) - that would save enough money for me to afford a hot dog. At Yankee Stadium.

xxx@nospam <BR> <BR>Didn't your father or mother ever fry-up some sowbelly for you? That helps make the meal so fantastic. BTW, I like my cornbread in whole sweet milk. <BR> <BR>I taught my jewish grandson to eat that dish while purched on my knee. Now I have to cook it for him every time he comes to visit. By himself anyway. We have never told his mother about the sowbelly even though they eat bacon. He is now 13, 6 ft. tall, and can eat as much as I do.

sure, fedup/curious i realize the value of owning a good home in a good neighborhood - i own an apartment in a nice area of nyc. however, when one purchases said home in said nice neighborhood, isn't there an implicit acknowledgment that the cost of living in general is going to be higher than in other places? it doesn't do any good to worry about how you're being taken by these restaurants. i understand your metaphors, fedup, but the basic fact of the matter remains. if you don't like it, don't go out for dinner. i paid an astronomical amount of money for a place to live, and i know full well that people opening restaurants in nyc pay astronomical amounts in rent. it's a trade off. i enjoy going out to dinner, so i do it - and i don't complain about the cost. and, i know i am very fortunate to be able to indulge myself in this way. of course i've had disappointing meals and walked away feeling slightly cheated - but as someone mentioned above, i've had disappointing haircuts, watermelons, and vacations. <BR> <BR>and curious, several posts up you did ask for suggestions for restaurants. if you're willing to explore areas like the lower east side and the east village, you'll find tons of good, inexpensive places. i'd suggest il bagatto on e. 2nd (?), le tableau, which is in the same neighborhood. cafe noir in soho, il corallo in soho, the cub room's cafe, where they serve the same menu as the restaurant at lower prices. republic in union square is mediocre at best, in my opinion. i didn't mean to be nasty - really. i guess i get a little annoyed by this kind of discussion because prices in all restaurants get driven up when people are willing to pay a lot for a nice meal. zagat even has a section for restaurants that are all glam - teflon! and, i have to admit that i have not heard very good things about fairfield county restaurants. i enjoyed tavern on main in westport. and i loved the american seasons on nantucket and felt that was definitely worth the money.

After the $20 pasta dish, stop by Starbucks for the $5 coffee. I guess since no one has mentioned this, $5 for coffee is ok, but $20 for pasta isn't. On top of that, Starbucks put out a tip jar. Starbucks employees make at or above minimum wage while the server in the $20 pasta place makes sub-minimum wage and makes up the difference with tips.

If you guys don't send me on vacation any time soon, I'll top something every day! Yes, it's a threat :)

OK, OK, I give!! where do you want to go???

Oh, dear, to so many places! Why not to Italy, to try real pasta, I assume it'll be much less then $20 per plate?

Personlly, I cannot remember the price of a plate of pasta but I don't think it costs that much :)
Fedup was just having a bad day, I think ~

Oh, just realized where this nickname came from...

Federal Express aquired UPS, and the new company is called FedUp.

OMG, Faina, while looking over this old thread, I noticed that a Troll who is currently posting as TravelsLaughing or blacktie, was posting on that thread..under his old name of L or Leone! Wow, he hasn't changed at all, some trolls never change.

Please make the pointless thread-toppings stop.... Please....