LucieV

Jean, she truly sounds idolizable. I want to be her when I grow up.

Jean

Yeah, me too. I'm a time-wasting slug in comparison.

Jean

Los Angeles County beaches are now open for walking, running, swimming, surfing. Parking lots are still closed as are the bike path, piers, and walkways. Basically: Keep moving, no congregating. Wear a mask (except when in the water) and keep proper distancing. No beach volleyball, no beach chairs.

If people get stupid, they'll close the beaches again.

jamie99

Why close the parking lots? That is just stupid, so only people who can walk, bike or run to the beach can get there and the rest of us can just suck it up because a few stupid idiots MIGHT not follow the rules? That is punishing the majority who DO follow the rules. Instead open up the beaches and parking lots to all and arrest and/or fine the idiots and violatores. I do agree with keeping the volleyball nets closed for awhile longer.

Surfergirl

Yes, it is somewhat silly to keep the parking lots at the beach closed, especially for the disabled and those with annual beach parking passes (which I have for Santa Monica, they have a super cheap parking pass for seniors). They are open for beach resident parking, however. I think the reason why, in part, is that they have had problems with RVs taking residence in droves in the parking lots and figure those who live in them may squat and make it hard to get them out.

On another note, LA's mayor yesterday mandated masks for all who are outside . . . don't have to have them ON while outside, but "readily available" if some bozo jogger sneaks up within unsocial distancing area (gosh, we used to call this "personal space") . . . because you KNOW the stealth jogger is going to be not wearing a mask and sweating and breathing heavily as he/she passes! (This happened to me. Scared the crap out of me. I didn't mince words).

Jean

Opening the parking lots adjacent to the beach would encourage too many people to "come on down."

My husband and I walked to the beach today and, even without nearby parking, there were LOTS of people on the sand and MANY surfers in the water. The rules are "keep moving and don't congregate." Beach chairs, umbrellas, and lounging on the sand are all prohibited. And yet... the police had to keep driving up and down the beach with bullhorns telling people not to lounge around, keep moving, don't congregate. The bike path is still closed, and signs are posted, but additional police had to stay near the path and use bullhorns to tell people to walk their bikes. We don't have a huge police force, and it felt like a lot of it was assigned to these babysitting tasks. More people could have been overwhelming.

I can't tell whether people are stupid, don't bother to find out the guidelines or just don't give an eff about the rules. There seems to be no understanding that the more we follow the rules now, the sooner this could be over. So, I'm betting on stupid.

CaliNurse

Can someone explain the rationale for people being allowed to move (walk, run) on the beach, but not SIT at a safe distance from others on the beach? Racking my brain for an evidence-based reason. Maybe someone here knows?

janisj

There is none -- Like many of the rules, they seem to be making things up as they go along. . . . Went from 'flattening the curve' - to 'don't overwhelm the hospitals' (many of our hospitals are in dire financial condition because there are almost no patients - covid or non-covid) - to 'prevent any contagion at all'. Just another goal post move IMO It would be next to impossible for sitting on a beach to be a risk.

CaliNurse

Thank you, JanisJ. Exactly what I was thinking. Many directives in different cities, counties, states seem absurd, and literally, non-sensical. Two people from the same family of four can be together on a motorboat--three cannot. Liquor stores are closed and "unsafe" in one state, but open in an adjoining state . On and on and on. I read a warning to avoid seaspray, as virus particles can travel long distances in it and infect a distant unsuspecting person. It's a lot easier to follow whatever directives (rules/orders) exist when they align with "science" (which of course also varies) and not pure fear.

That said, if anyone knows why it would be dangerous to sit on a beach safely distanced from others, vs walking on it, I'm all ears.

Gretchen

" Went from 'flattening the curve' - to 'don't overwhelm the hospitals' (many of our hospitals are in dire financial condition because there are almost no patients - covid or non-covid) - to 'prevent any contagion at all'. Just another goal post move IMO It would be next to impossible for sitting on a beach to be a risk."

Flattening the curve IS so the healthcare system WON"T be overwhelmed. It is not "the next thing"--it is all ONE thing. And for heavens' sake the reason the hospitals are in bad financial shape is because of the COVID cases and not being able to do elective surgeries and other things that people go to hospitials for that MAKES THE MONEY FOR HOSPITALS.

Brian_in_Charlotte

+1

MmePerdu

Not sitting on a beach makes sense to me. It keeps numbers down. Congregating is the problem, unlikely if one must keep moving.

sf7307

We were at the beach north of Palm Beach a couple of weeks ago. We were far from other people (and on the move . Many people ignored the rules about no sitting, no beach chairs, no picnics, no coolers, etc. which BTW were posted at all the entrances. However, except for the people who couldn't be bothered to walk 10' from the entrance, noone was congregating - every group/family was appropriately distanced from every other group/family. I hate when people don't follow the rules; on the other hand, I agree with those who say sitting should be fine, as long as you're social distancing.

janisj

Sitting on a beach does not require 'congregating'. A single or couple or family group would be 100% safe on any strip of sand anywhere - as long as they weren't sitting close to other singles, couples or family groups.

Gretchen: "Flattening the curve IS so the healthcare system WON"T be overwhelmed. It is not "the next thing"--it is all ONE thing. And for heavens' sake the reason the hospitals are in bad financial shape is because of the COVID cases and not being able to do elective surgeries and other things that people go to hospitals for that MAKES THE MONEY FOR HOSPITALS. "

Things are different in different parts of the country . . . which is another reason the rules are so abstruse/unfathomable. Unfortunately 80% of the commentary/coverage is from a NYC/Wash DC/LA perspective. Our hospitals are almost empty of any sort of patient including covid-19. The Corps of Engineers built up all these emergency hospitals - one in my area is being leased for $800,000 and cost a couple million $$ to fit out . . . and has had less than TEN patients total and there is ONE in patient now. At the same time some of our our local permanent hospitals are running less than 25% full. The health care system is now perfectly capable of handling things even if there is a spike in one or more regions. Because NYC metro area and LA have their very specific serious problems/issues doesn't justify keeping people from sitting on beaches.

Gretchen

"The health care system is now perfectly capable of handling things even if there is a spike in one or more regions. Because NYC metro area and LA have their very specific serious problems/issues doesn't justify keeping people from sitting on beaches."

To me this is a sort of cavalier statement--our hospitals are empty so they can take a spike. Fill 'em up. One other reason they are empty of non-COVID cases is that a LOT of people are not ready to go out and test the waters nor are the doctors who could use the business. My husband has to have a procedure next week and i am not at all happy about going into a hospital setting for any of us. We will quarantine when we get back--but it is prety much the same anyway.
As for sitting on the beach--one pair multiplies into many pairs. There is just no background. As was just said on TV here by Cuomo, who is going to coordinate with other states before opeining beaches--When Georgia opened barber shops, people drove from other states. Same with the beaches.
So far, our retirement community is COVID free. Another top notch one nearby has had their first two and we can hope there will be no more--but the doctor we have says it is just like lighting a fire.
Personally I think your state and governor have done a great job--let him finish it.
Trump is now attacking our NC governor for being cautious--'cause we were stupid enough to accept having the Republican convention here. I hope our citty people get a backbone and cancel it--why would we want thousands coming into our town, especially since a lot of them are the gun carrying protesters who want to open "cause it's their right to do anything they want when they want". One of them got Covid after protesting in Raleigh a couple of weeks ago--and quickly, so she probably already had it and infected others.

Jean

The problem is that a lot of people DON'T sit at a safe distance from others. Perhaps on more remote beaches in the state, people do the right thing. But here, on my L.A.-area beach, there were large groups of people yesterday trying to set up their usual "day camps" on the sand. Most were not wearing masks (which is also a requirement), and it was clear that most were not family units that are living together but rather friends. Once you let couples and families park themselves, it becomes difficult if not impossible then to prevent the others from doing the same.

As with every baby step we take toward normalcy, give people an inch and they take a mile. It's like herding cats.

Barbara

+1

janisj

Again -- totally an LA / NY perspective. Since Georgia 'ill advisedly' re-opened their numbers have actually continued to go down. And on beaches, it is simple enough to break up groups and move them along. Seems a better idea than forbidding anyone from sitting on a beach. To require masks whenever outdoors (unless interacting in a group) has absolutely no scientific basis.

And things like Garcetti cutting off water and utilities to 'non-essential' businesses . . . And even the list of essential vs non-essential is pretty irrational. Donut shops are essential, book shops aren't. My problem is these draconian rules are just encouraging people to revolt. Better to have reasonable rules that allow for social distancing and hygiene that people can understand instead of dictatorial fiats.

Barbara

Donut shops can do curbside pickup. If bookshops were open, people would browse, sit and read, what they usually do in bookshops. I think bookshops are allowed to have curbside pickup now too. Brief interaction with another person-not-in-you-household and who is, like you, wearing a mask, is far less likely to spread the virus than the prolonged contact in, say, a hair or nail salon. There are logical scientific reasons for all these rules, but when they affect something someone wants to do, they will call them stupid and illogical and not based on science.

I think Georgia's numbers are going up. A lot.

MmePerdu

[QUOTE=janisj;17106204]Sitting on a beach does not require 'congregating'. A single or couple or family group would be 100% safe on any strip of sand anywhere - as long as they weren't sitting close to other singles, couples or family groups.

No, it doesn't require congregating, but as you say, "as long as they weren't sitting close to other singles, couples or family groups." The problem, as we all know, is not people who distance themselves from other groups, it's people who don't. And as long as there are morons in the world the rest of us must bend over backwards to make it clear what's required. Hence, some rules that seem extreme to the sensible majority, to protect us from that minority who aren't equipped to get the drift (or who simply get off on defying it).