Air Travel - Has it Become to Miserable to Bother?
Nov 28th, 2006, 11:58 AM
#82
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Is air travel worth it? Depends. Flying to visit your in-laws is one thing. Flying to someplace you've always wanted to see is another. Flying to escape miserable winters....priceless. Here are my suggestions to make it better.
Security -- it seems like the TSA is out of ideas.... Being reactive to the last terrorist modus operandi instead of being proactive. More security isn't necessarily the answer. Smarter and better security is. Stop making everyone take off their shoes. Read body language. Enact the trusted traveler program for those of us who think it's worth it to provide extra information about ourselves in the front end so that we can have shorter and smarter security lines at the back end. Stop paralyzing the airport security process with political correctness.
Inflight -- how about one entire side of the airplane has seats that recline and the other side does not? Like minded people will be sitting in front of and behind like minded people.
Leg room --- go ahead and take out some seats and charge more on the side of the plane where the seats recline.
Passenger behavior -- for the love of Pete, don't start allowing cell phone use in flight
Passengers of size -- if you take up more than one seat, you buy more than one seat
Security -- it seems like the TSA is out of ideas.... Being reactive to the last terrorist modus operandi instead of being proactive. More security isn't necessarily the answer. Smarter and better security is. Stop making everyone take off their shoes. Read body language. Enact the trusted traveler program for those of us who think it's worth it to provide extra information about ourselves in the front end so that we can have shorter and smarter security lines at the back end. Stop paralyzing the airport security process with political correctness.
Inflight -- how about one entire side of the airplane has seats that recline and the other side does not? Like minded people will be sitting in front of and behind like minded people.
Leg room --- go ahead and take out some seats and charge more on the side of the plane where the seats recline.
Passenger behavior -- for the love of Pete, don't start allowing cell phone use in flight
Passengers of size -- if you take up more than one seat, you buy more than one seat
Nov 29th, 2006, 04:30 PM
#85
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And maybe I am unfashionable by saying that:
#1 I am still amazed when I start the day in Texas and end it in Oregon
#2 If there is 'weather' I NEVER get angry at the airline
#3 I blame only myself for problems if I do not allow generous connection times or fail to arrive at the a/p early enough to accomodate a long line
#4 If there is a mechanical delay, I understand. The airline does not want delays either... my brother is an AA pilot and takes safety VERY seriously. If he calls a mechanical, I trust that he wants everyone to be safe.
Anyhoo, my biggst frustrations are with PASSENGERS.
#1 I am still amazed when I start the day in Texas and end it in Oregon
#2 If there is 'weather' I NEVER get angry at the airline
#3 I blame only myself for problems if I do not allow generous connection times or fail to arrive at the a/p early enough to accomodate a long line
#4 If there is a mechanical delay, I understand. The airline does not want delays either... my brother is an AA pilot and takes safety VERY seriously. If he calls a mechanical, I trust that he wants everyone to be safe.
Anyhoo, my biggst frustrations are with PASSENGERS.
Nov 29th, 2006, 05:05 PM
#86
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I don't disagree that stuff happens, like weather or some sort of mechanical problem, but imo the airline is responsible. It's really not unreasonable to expect compensation if you are inconvenienced. Below I copied how the EU handles it.
AirSafedotcom: "Unlike the U.S., the European Union (EU) does provide for compensation for flight delays and cancellations. In most, but not all, cases involving a delay or cancellation of a flight, a passenger is entitled to compensation under European Parliament Regulation (EC) 261/2004 for delayed and cancelled flights. There are three levels of compensation:
in the event of long delays (two hours or more, depending on the distance of the flight), passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or emails;
if the time of departure is deferred until the next day, passengers must also be offered hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the place of accommodation;
when the delay is five hours or longer, passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure."
AirSafedotcom: "Unlike the U.S., the European Union (EU) does provide for compensation for flight delays and cancellations. In most, but not all, cases involving a delay or cancellation of a flight, a passenger is entitled to compensation under European Parliament Regulation (EC) 261/2004 for delayed and cancelled flights. There are three levels of compensation:
in the event of long delays (two hours or more, depending on the distance of the flight), passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or emails;
if the time of departure is deferred until the next day, passengers must also be offered hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the place of accommodation;
when the delay is five hours or longer, passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure."
Nov 29th, 2006, 06:01 PM
#87
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So you seriously expect an airline, lets say Southwest... who gets iced in at Dallas Love Field to PAY for EVERY passenger to stay at a hotel, get hot meals, free calls, etc... all for a 99.00 ticket?
Nov 29th, 2006, 08:21 PM
#88
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I copied the EU regs just to make a point that perhaps you get the service you accept. I guess you're saying that you get the service you pay for.
I seek out low fares but I've never found a $99 ticket. I spend extra money for non-stops whenever available or since I live in Knoxville, I often get one-stops. Like you, I allow for connection times. In the future, I suppose I'll avoid being on the last flight out.
Im just saying there has to be some fairness to the system. If I'm paying a premium for convenience, shouldn't I be reimbursed if I'm greatly inconvenienced? On our last trip, it wasn't just the inconvenience of not getting home when we planned, but also the misplaced luggage, the hotel in the middle of the night, the long wait for the shuttle to that hotel, etc.
The least they could do was reimburse us.
I seek out low fares but I've never found a $99 ticket. I spend extra money for non-stops whenever available or since I live in Knoxville, I often get one-stops. Like you, I allow for connection times. In the future, I suppose I'll avoid being on the last flight out.
Im just saying there has to be some fairness to the system. If I'm paying a premium for convenience, shouldn't I be reimbursed if I'm greatly inconvenienced? On our last trip, it wasn't just the inconvenience of not getting home when we planned, but also the misplaced luggage, the hotel in the middle of the night, the long wait for the shuttle to that hotel, etc.
The least they could do was reimburse us.
Nov 29th, 2006, 08:47 PM
#89
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"On our last trip, it wasn't just the inconvenience of not getting home when we planned, but also the misplaced luggage, the hotel in the middle of the night, the long wait for the shuttle to that hotel, etc.
The least they could do was reimburse us. "
I'm sorry, but I don't see why the airline should reimburse you for a weather related delay which is out of their hands. The problems with the hotel, inability to get a rental car, etc. was your doing.
You decided to take a different flight partway and drive home from there. You can blame the airline and demand payment all you want, but it was your decision and you should take responsibility for it. Did they misplace your luggage? Yes. Could you have gone to the rental agency and picked up a car before midnight? Most likely. Then you could have gone back to the terminal, picked up your luggage and driven home, or driven to a hotel to rest for the night.
You can blame the airline for the delayed/misplaced luggage, blame Mother Nature for the weather, and yourself for your own decisions. Just don't expect the airline to compensate you for the hotel problems when you could've made better decisions and avoided that situation.
The least they could do was reimburse us. "
I'm sorry, but I don't see why the airline should reimburse you for a weather related delay which is out of their hands. The problems with the hotel, inability to get a rental car, etc. was your doing.
You decided to take a different flight partway and drive home from there. You can blame the airline and demand payment all you want, but it was your decision and you should take responsibility for it. Did they misplace your luggage? Yes. Could you have gone to the rental agency and picked up a car before midnight? Most likely. Then you could have gone back to the terminal, picked up your luggage and driven home, or driven to a hotel to rest for the night.
You can blame the airline for the delayed/misplaced luggage, blame Mother Nature for the weather, and yourself for your own decisions. Just don't expect the airline to compensate you for the hotel problems when you could've made better decisions and avoided that situation.
Nov 29th, 2006, 10:30 PM
#90
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Our only choices were to stay in NYC in a hotel another whole day, or to try to get home. I don't like to be too personal in posts online, but my husband is a hospital doc, and either had to be at work or find someone to cover for him until he could get there. We made our choices on that basis.
Even the route we took, with a morning flight instead of a car rental, got us home much earlier and in time for him to work. He worked late even though he had very little sleep.
I repeat that I understand that there are unforseeable problems the airlines must deal with, but at very least, we deserved a refund or voucher, and since we got a $300 voucher (although$75 less than my request), Delta must agree.
As stated previously, I've taken precautions to avoid these kinds of situations and paid more for them. I don't quite understand your objections when even the airline agrees.
Even the route we took, with a morning flight instead of a car rental, got us home much earlier and in time for him to work. He worked late even though he had very little sleep.
I repeat that I understand that there are unforseeable problems the airlines must deal with, but at very least, we deserved a refund or voucher, and since we got a $300 voucher (although$75 less than my request), Delta must agree.
As stated previously, I've taken precautions to avoid these kinds of situations and paid more for them. I don't quite understand your objections when even the airline agrees.
Nov 30th, 2006, 01:25 AM
#91
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You are not the only traveler here who has a "professional" responsibility to carry out. And the positive results of having those "professional" choices in the first place are, as you so well know, considerable.
Finding alternate coverage is obviously an option you either chose not to pursue or couldn't arrange; trying to hold someone else financially responsible for the results of those choices is a waste of energy and, I suspect, will win you little sympathy.
Finding alternate coverage is obviously an option you either chose not to pursue or couldn't arrange; trying to hold someone else financially responsible for the results of those choices is a waste of energy and, I suspect, will win you little sympathy.
Nov 30th, 2006, 06:35 AM
#93
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No they won't. Personal responsibility seems more and more an intangible as time goes on. It's always "OK" if there is someone or something to blame and for compensation.
Head's up for all travelers on 11/30 or through this weekend! Big, big delays in Chicago started yesterday with the heavy rains, and now 100s of cancelations too as we are going to get hit with 6 to 12 inches.
People were packed on cots at both airports last night, and the first snowflake hasn't even fallen yet.
Head's up for all travelers on 11/30 or through this weekend! Big, big delays in Chicago started yesterday with the heavy rains, and now 100s of cancelations too as we are going to get hit with 6 to 12 inches.
People were packed on cots at both airports last night, and the first snowflake hasn't even fallen yet.
Nov 30th, 2006, 08:40 AM
#94
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I don't want anyone's sympathy Dukey. I recounted what happened to me in the context of the post, "Air Travel - Has it Become too Miserable to Bother?"
JJ5, your post made no sense. I was at the airport two hours early. When our flight was cancelled, due to professional obligations, we arranged for the quickest way to get home (flight and car), and made a backup plan (flight and next-morning flight). We ended up using the backup plan. While we were trying to get home, my husband arranged for a colleague to fill in. Once home, my husband changed and went into work immediately. Look personal responsibility up in the dictionary and you'll find my husband's picture.
A few days later, I wrote a detailed account of our eventful trip in an email to the airline. A few weeks later, I received an apology and the vouchers.
JJ5, your post made no sense. I was at the airport two hours early. When our flight was cancelled, due to professional obligations, we arranged for the quickest way to get home (flight and car), and made a backup plan (flight and next-morning flight). We ended up using the backup plan. While we were trying to get home, my husband arranged for a colleague to fill in. Once home, my husband changed and went into work immediately. Look personal responsibility up in the dictionary and you'll find my husband's picture.
A few days later, I wrote a detailed account of our eventful trip in an email to the airline. A few weeks later, I received an apology and the vouchers.
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Claire, I looked up the national weather for the day of your flight and this is what I found:
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/dailywx..._20061018.html
Can someone knowledgeable explain if this map shows the kind of weather that would cause flight cancellations? It doesn't look like it to me. I suspect weather wasn't the real reason for the cancellation. After their lack of effort to find you another flight and then losing your luggage, I don't blame you for expecting reimbursement. You didn't get what you paid for, which was a flight home on a particular day. I could understand a weather delay, but it looks like that may not have been the case. The airlines, like all businesses, should be held responsible for providing the services they are being paid to provide.
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/dailywx..._20061018.html
Can someone knowledgeable explain if this map shows the kind of weather that would cause flight cancellations? It doesn't look like it to me. I suspect weather wasn't the real reason for the cancellation. After their lack of effort to find you another flight and then losing your luggage, I don't blame you for expecting reimbursement. You didn't get what you paid for, which was a flight home on a particular day. I could understand a weather delay, but it looks like that may not have been the case. The airlines, like all businesses, should be held responsible for providing the services they are being paid to provide.
Nov 30th, 2006, 11:58 AM
#97
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Well, it appears there was 'weather' all along the east coast. Weather problems can also be a result of the aircraft origin. As we all know, bad weather in ORD, ATL or DFW (among others) can cause weather delays all over the world... even if it is bright and sunny in your departure city. Also, DFW gets high winds on sunny days that cause delays. Lightening without precipitation causes many, many delays.
Nov 30th, 2006, 01:00 PM
#98
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Well, I was pondering that post about made up weather delays and it suddenly occurred to me that the FAA is responsible for grounding flights.
So it would be a big conspiracy indeed...
Don't be silly. Weather delays/cancellations are real. Mechanical delays and cancellations are real. Then there are those ambigious flight cancellations that are generally related to flight loads.
So it would be a big conspiracy indeed...
Don't be silly. Weather delays/cancellations are real. Mechanical delays and cancellations are real. Then there are those ambigious flight cancellations that are generally related to flight loads.
Nov 30th, 2006, 04:29 PM
#99
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Since no one agreed with me about being compensated for delays, I tried hard to understand the counter point of view. I think you are saying that air travel is somewhat of a gamble for everyone. I was just putting more money on the table (with my non-stops), and mostly that works out for us. I do think that if a person feels that he/she has been extremely inconvenienced that he/she should contact the airlines as I did. Delta did compensate us for our inconvenience.
Further, I think it is a commonplace observation that flights are generally full which leads one to think it is possible that airlines cancel flights that are not full.
Further, I think it is a commonplace observation that flights are generally full which leads one to think it is possible that airlines cancel flights that are not full.
Dec 5th, 2006, 01:14 PM
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I have had logic classes in college so I wouldn't say that the only reason for full flights is cancellation of non-full flights. That conclusion does not follow.
I think there's a difference between asking for some compensation, and expecting not to pay for the flight. While circumstances did not work out as you planned (they rarely do, nowadays), the fact is that the airline did get you home, or would have had you allowed them to. Asking for essentially a free flight just because there were delays isn't reasonable.
Just remember, the airline didn't take the amount of the vouchers out of their CEO's bonus check. Next year we'll all be paying higher fares on that airline and it will be because of situations like this. If you don't pay that $300, the rest of us will, on your behalf, somehow, someway. The airline isn't just going to eat that loss. If you could view it in that light, perhaps you'd understand some of the reactions you are getting in this forum.
I think there's a difference between asking for some compensation, and expecting not to pay for the flight. While circumstances did not work out as you planned (they rarely do, nowadays), the fact is that the airline did get you home, or would have had you allowed them to. Asking for essentially a free flight just because there were delays isn't reasonable.
Just remember, the airline didn't take the amount of the vouchers out of their CEO's bonus check. Next year we'll all be paying higher fares on that airline and it will be because of situations like this. If you don't pay that $300, the rest of us will, on your behalf, somehow, someway. The airline isn't just going to eat that loss. If you could view it in that light, perhaps you'd understand some of the reactions you are getting in this forum.
