From streeteasy.com, the NY real estate site:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/5/439...c-policy-fight

Re: ``What Air BnB should do ... and not accept these illegal listings. it is their choice not to do so.''

I'm not an Airbnb user snd not familiar with their policies. But they also need to consider their legal position as a host of posts made by third parties. Very roughly speaking, (US) law says they can choose whether or not to screen for illegal listings, but it is sort of all or nothing. If they do choose to screen, they can be held liable if something goes wrong (anywhere on their site). I can see why they might not be interested in doing that.

Anyone who doesn;t think that housing court is NYC is a real court - should see the 7 months rent free my landlord had to give me when he was found to be charging an illegally high rent.

"Air BnB has not filed a case."

According to crosscheck's link they are now paying to take Warren's case further.

Check out the more recent piece posted above, as well as the link to airbnb's blog post, "Why We're Helping Nigel in New York." airbnb is getting involved on the public policy level, trying to change the law in NYC. They have hired Gibson Dunn, a top law firm, and are covering the legal fees for the appeal of the host who was fined.

From the blog post: "I am pleased to report that we will assist Nigel and his landlord as they appeal this ruling...we intend to fight this ruling until justice is done...now that Nigel and his landlord have agreed to let us support their appeal, we are in this for the long haul."

A lot of cities have these "quasi-judicial" hearing officers that rule on rent control, code violations, etc. Cities can issue fines for infractions.

I used to work in this field on the government side, but I'm not familiar with the government structure in New York. In California rulings by municipal or state government bureaucracy can be appealed to a "real" court (i.e. in the judicial branch) on constitutional grounds, & vagueness falls under "substantive due process".

Gibson Dunn & Crutcher is a heavy hitter.

<< I'm not familiar with the government structure in New York>>

Don't dive in - NYC bureaucracy rivals California.

<<They have no grounds to file a case.>>

Rubbish, at its core, this is a constitutional issue.

And Airbnb's decision to hire GDC means it's not effing around - it wants to kill the law. Probably because the law is stupid - it applies only in NYC not in the state as a whole and one of the key justifications to prevent renters from "deplet[ing] the City’s housing stock" is rot. If NYC wanted to generate additional housing stock it could kill rent control.

The law does no just apply to NYC - it's a state law. It's just that by far the large\est number of toorists are coming to the city - so the influx of strangers into private residences is greatest here.

and the city and state have a very complex set of rent laws built around specific market conditions - and I fail to see how subletting an apt (against the provision of the lease or the rules of the co-op/condo board) is a constitutional issue.

I can;t imagine that there is anyone who thinks tht someone who rents an apartment can do whatever they want with it. Almost all municipalities have specific rules/laws - and most leases have all sorts of specific provisions (no pets, etc). this is simple contract law. Not a constitutional issue.

Your imagination does not jibe with legal precedent.

So many speaking up against Airbnb have no experience with Airbnb and claim they never want to rent via Airbnb.

This is like constantly criticizing and claiming that apples are no good for everyone while never having tasted an apple and claiming to never want to taste an apple.

No one who has had experience with renting in New York via Airbnb has spoken up - except Nelsonian, who seems to have stayed in a very legal apartment.

I'm sorry to say that I am ever so grateful not to live in the anthill called New York.

Oh, BTW, according to someone's link above (I'm too lazy to look it up again) only half of Airbnb's rentals are illegal in New York. Please don't ask me how this person could even have come to this figure - but, if this estimate is valid, then there are plenty of LEGAL rentals in NY from Airbnb hosts.

<I'm sorry to say that I am ever so grateful not to live in the anthill called New York.>

Easy, I appreciate your wisdom on the California board but that remark is uncalled for.

NYC is NOT an anthill. It is an exciting, vibrant city - not just a collection of suburb after suburb sitting in a desert with no seasons.

Everyone likes different things - but we must be doing something right to get more than 50 million visitors a year.

easytraveler: the issue has absolutely Nothing to do with those who have used air bnb. Who cares what they think??

NYC does look like an anthill: Lots of people scurrying here and there, working harder than most, and many quite passionate about protecting the integrity of the 'nest'!

It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

Nytraveler's comments about the four seasons in interesting. We got believe how short the seasons are compared to NZ!!

Ho can seasons be short? 12 months and 4 seasons, Granted in NYC spring tends to be short (and summer kind o flong) but not by much.

Well, spring in NYC lasts about 63 hours and summer goes from approximately June 1st until October 11th.

EmilyPost: Is this the new name for Bowsprit; I notice that both screen names seem fixated on "illegal" rentals in NYC? Just curious.

What? The focus on illegal rentals for vacationers is all over the net's travel sites, ekscrunchy. Sorry if you think I am fixated.

I never understand why it's so debated. it's illegal. Just like I won't go to the UK and drive on the right side of the road ("We do that in the US all the time") I'm not going to rent an apt or AirBnB place in NYC. It doesn't matter who agrees with the law or who doesn't.

And at the risk of appearing 'fixated', I agree with suewoo!

Almost all apt sublets in NYC are not "illegl". They are ILLEGAL.

If people choose to ignore that and rent anyway - that is their decision - and their risk. But they should understand that even if IT is not a scam and even if they pay by credit card - they have no recourse if things don't work out - since credit cards cannot provide coverage for illegal transactions.

http://ow.ly/27BEuk

So much for that ruling...nytraveler, I hope your energetic defense of law and order will apply to the latest ruling by NYC admin court.

It's now CLEARLY legal in the case discussed here. I'm sure you will be delighted to argue forcefully for those findings, given your clear legal bent.

All the ruling did was clarify that the owner needs to be in the apartment...that changes nothing as far a legality of renting out places for less than 30 days.

It says that rentals of less than 30 days are legal IF the owner is in the apartment.

So the question now becomes what right a tenant or owner has to rent if a building prohibits it or the tenant's own lease or sublease prohibits it. Most do prohibit short term rentals.

If the lease bans sublets the renter has NOT right to sublet. And being caught is grounds for abrogating the lease

Co-op and condo leases almost universally ban any subletting without the specific approval of the board and interview/financial background check of the subleter - so 95%+ of those buildings are out.

Standard rental leases in NYC also ban subletting without prior approval by the landlord.

If the owner is in the apt the current ruling seems to be that renting out an extra bed or an extra room is legal - if both the renter and the person renting are wiling to live in that proximity (usually sharing a bath) with strangers.

As always people who own their own houses (very rare in Manhattan but much more frequent in outer boroughs) can sublet rooms as allowed by fire and safety codes (cannot stuff 5 or 6 people in one room). The problem is that most of these places are in areas not very convenient to Manhattan - often a bus to a long subway ride - or more.

It was a very first post for brand new member <b>gouda999,</b> who clearly seems familiar with nytraveler's past opinions of airbnb.