kesh

Hi all,

So the wife and I are finally getting the opportunity to be hitting the USA this December-January. I've thrown together a sample itinerary, and would very much welcome other forumites' thoughts on it (be it longer somewhere, or swapping out locations).

By way of background: We're both 28, and from Sydney, Australia. We're of average fitness, and are interested in everything from nature, to history, culture, food, activities, and good old fashioned fun!

Day Date Day Location
1 17-Dec Sat Depart
2 17-Dec Sat New York
3 18-Dec Sun "
4 19-Dec Mon "
5 20-Dec Tue "
6 21-Dec Wed Philadelphia (drive from NYC)
7 22-Dec Thu Washington (drive from Philly)
8 23-Dec Fri "
9 24-Dec Sat Orlando
10 25-Dec Sun "
11 26-Dec Mon "
12 27-Dec Tue New Orleans
13 28-Dec Wed "
14 29-Dec Thu Aspen (Ski)
15 30-Dec Fri "
16 31-Dec Sat "
17 1-Jan Sun Los Vegas (including Death Valley)
18 2-Jan Mon "
19 3-Jan Tue "
20 4-Jan Wed Grand Canyon
21 5-Jan Thu "
22 6-Jan Fri Los Angeles
23 7-Jan Sat "
24 8-Jan Sun "
25 9-Jan Mon "
26 10-Jan Tue Hawaii (Big Island)
27 11-Jan Wed "
28 12-Jan Thu "
29 13-Jan Fri Depart Hawaii
30 14-Jan Sat Sydney
31 15-Jan Sun Spare day to slot in somewhere?

Based on the above, I estimate that we'd have about 1 day left over, so wasn't sure quite where to put that. Looks like we're missing some of the heartland, but really wasn't sure what a "must-see experience" through those regions would be.

Any thoughts, tips and other input would be very much appreciated.

Kesh

Aduchamp1

You really haven't taken into consideration how much time you will lose traveling. Whether it is packing and unpacking or wasting time getting to and from and at an airport, jet lag and possible delays due to winter weather.

nytraveler

You have too many different destinations and have not allowed time to travel for one place to another.

IMHO 3 days is not long enough for NYC and 1 days for DC is just silly. And it makes no sense to spend just a few hours in Philly. I would add at least 1 more day to NYC and at least 2 more days to DC.

Separately, you will be in the northeast in midwinter and driving makes no sense. You may be lucky and get 40s and clear - but if you get any sort of bad weather the driving will be hell. I would just take the train from NYC straight to DC. Train will be faster and won;t be affected by the weather unless we get a real blizzard. Roads can be affected by as little as 6 inches of snow -- something we get quite often - and unless you are used to driving in snow and ice doing so here would be foolhardy.

Also I don;t know if you have accounted for the winnter weather out west. Although Las Vegas is a desert it still gets cold in the winter and GC can be very cold - and a lot closed - due to the altitude. Also - getting around in CO can take a long time due to winter storms.

Flying in midwinter often involves extensive delays (since planes may be delayed where they are coming in from) and you need to assume that any of these flights will take the best part of a day - when you include getting to and fro the airport, checking in lines, security lines and waiting for a plane to turn up. (It took me almost 8 hours to get from my St Louis hotel to my NYC apartment this week - even though the flight is only 2.5 hours - in large part due to the plane being delayed by thunderstorms further west.)

You really need to cut out some of these places - and decide which you want to focus on.

Ozarksbill

Well, you don't say what your doing except for the skiing but you have outlined one helluva trip cross country! I realize that oft times Aussies take extended trips because of distance from home. Sure does look like alot of driving though and in winter months, too. I just don't think it makes sense to jump from Washington to Orlando to New Orleans to Aspen as you plan. And on and on out West and then Hawaii. But I'm an old guy who would rather select just a few places to explore.

Bill in Boston

bardo1

I'll take a stab at this. Yes, even a month is not enough to see all you've outlined.

I would drop (though these are ALL worth spending time at, you just don't have said time):
Philadelphia
Orlando

Add another day or two to:
New Orleans
DC
NYC

Also, while it's a bit more driving, I would still strongly suggest cutting back on LA (maybe just 2 nights) and then head to San Francisco for a few days on route to Hawaii. San Francisco is as much of a "don't miss" part of a USA tour as NYC.

You should get off the highway for rest stops and meals to see some small towns and some scenic drives. I highly recommend you get (used copies) these two books and keep them in the car on your trip:

http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Ameri.../dp/0792274733

http://www.amazon.com/National-Geogr.../dp/0792274687

emalloy

I would consider taking the train from NY to DC, and skip Philadelphia add the time to the cities. The weather could be very iffy at that time of year and you won't need a car in either city. What do you want to do in Orlando? If it is Disney, why not save it for the LA version?

You could then fly from DC to New Orleans and on to Colorado, no need to rent a car in either place if you fly to Aspen.

Then head for Vegas and getting the car for trips to Death Valley and Grand Canyon. Be flexible here, the trip to GC could be fine but sometimes there is snow along the route so you could go there when there is none falling, ok if it has fallen. Return the car and fly to LA. Rent a car in LA.

I agree with the add San Francisco suggestion and fly from there to Hawaii.

Gardyloo

Some random observations/tweaks:

Use the train between NYC and Philly/Washington. Unpleasant and tedious drive, and a car is pointless in any of the three cities.

I'm assuming Orlando is for Disney? Note that Christmas in Wally World is... well... congested? As adults, maybe you could consider amending your itinerary to spend Christmas in a more adult location? If you have an unmet need for Disney, maybe you could add some nights in California, hit Disneyland near LA, but add some place like San Francisco to your itinerary?

The altitude of the Grand Canyon makes it very iffy in January; there will likely be snow on the ground and ice on the roads. Save your "red rocks" experience for another time.

Death Valley is around 3 hours by car from Las Vegas. Given the short daylight hours in January, you'd either have to drive in the dark in one direction (not recommended - mountains and 2-lane roads) or else limit your time in the park drastically. Not sure if you plan to drive from LV to LA, but if so you could travel in one direction via Death Valley and save some time. Alternatively, skip Death Valley and substitute Joshua Tree NP instead; there are numerous accommodations in nearby Palm Springs that will be much more convenient than anything near DV or between DV and LA. Or just skip DV/Joshua Tree and go visit Uluru from home sometime.

One note about domestic travel in North America in late December and early January: expect delays. The planes are full, the weather is dicey, and one day's closure of airports (due to snow, fog) and the whole system takes days, sometimes over a week, to recover - planes out of position, pilots who've outlasted their work windows, etc. You're timing travel around the holidays with bang-bang precision; IMO that's a well-trod path to disappointment.

basingstoke2

Some more random thoughts. Unless you are interested in the theme parks, skip Orlando. You may want to add Charleston, S.C. instead - it is about a 45 minute drive off the interstate. I would also substitute San Francisco for LA. IMO it is much more interesting and compact enough to do see and do things. If in San Fran, take a side trip to Muir Woods - I do not think Australia has anything like it.

Bring the type of clothing so that you can layer because you will be experiencing all types of weather.

Orlando_Vic

I have some random (and disorganized) comments too.

From SYD-NYC, you will be crossing 14 time zones and, even worse, flying west to east. You will have major jet lag. Do not expect to do much of anything the day after you arrive.

Good point about the Grand Canyon possibly having snow.

Agree that the train is a better way to go from New York-Philadelphia-Washington. Also agree that possibly deleting Philadelphia, as nytraveler suggested, is a logical economy move.

What is your purpose in coming to Orlando? If it is to see Disney, be aware that the week between Christmas & New Year's Day is the most crowded during the entire year and that some of the parks reach capacity by noon and close their gates to new visitors. Walt Disney World is not equivalent to California's Disneyland, but if you want to come for that reason, come at another time and you'll enjoy it more.

Las Vegas is NOT a "must-see experience" IMO. Driving up California Highway 1 from L.A. to San Francisco is. Take a look: http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...rip-in-america A comparable example is the Great Ocean Road.

_____________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

nytraveler

Agree that no one has really mentioned clothing. the trip you have planned covers the entire gamut from possibly 80 in FL to possibly zero (farenheit - not centigrade) in the northeast and Co. You will need heavy winter coats, hat, scarf, gloves and water proof boot with non-skid soles and several different types of layers to wear under thm.

Also - in the course of a month in winter you may be incredibly lucky and get no bad weather - but it is likely that you will run into snow or ice at least once (and I don;t mean skiing) which can easily throw your schedule off from one to several days. You have NO days built in to allow for this.

jamie99

Ditch Orlando and go to Disneyland instead (it is the original). Agree with seeing San Francisco.

Why Island of Hawaii? If you want to shop, most Aussies adore Oahu. The volcano is not erupting red lava right now from what I have read either, and it is a BIG island, you would need a lot more time.

Have you priced one way car rentals? They are usually pretty expensive, although I have read on another forum about a site called Traveljigsaw for folks from Australia that you can get good rates at and sometimes get the one-way fees reduced.

willowjane

Oh my goodness, you have missed the South! Please try to add Charleston SC or Savannah GA or some other true Southern city to your plan. I would even consider skipping Orlanda and adding some southern route to your course. The weather could be iffy that time of year, but the areas are still beautiful!

Gretchen

No Orlando
No Philly
No Death Valley
No Las Vegas
If you are going to ski, do it closer to Denver.And Aspen is for EXPERTS, so if you aren't, Breckenridge or Keystone. Breck has a bit of a village feel.
While I love Charleston, and not Savannah, DO New Orleans.
"WAY too long in Los Angeles
DO San Francisco for a couple of days.
Work on this some more.
How are you getting from say, Denver to "Las Vegas"--or Grand Canyon.
You are travelling in our winter as has been pointed out, and there may be some little icy bumps.

janisj

Too many problems/issues to even address - but everyone above has made a good stab at it.

Just one quick add'l comment >>Las Vegas is NOT a "must-see experience" IMO. Driving up California Highway 1 from L.A. to San Francisco is.

kesh

Thank you so much everyone. We really appreciate the feedback and suggestions.

In line with your feedback, we'll remove Orlando, Philly and Death Valley from our itinerary, and stick to trains in favour of cars for the north east. We'll also add in either Charleston or Savannah. We might have to save SF + Highway 1 for a summer visit.

Many other good points were raised as well as book recommendations. We'll certainly take it on board.

I think the biggest risk factor as many of you have mentioned are the flight cancellations. Not sure how we can get around that - perhaps just taking trains where possible instead of slights?

Thanks again everyone. I'll be sure to post a trip report if/when we make it through!

janisj

"perhaps just taking trains where possible instead of flights?"

Don't plan on using long distance trains -- anywhere except for the corridor between NYC and Wash. DC. For that trip -- trains make the most sense. But otherwise you cannot rely on rail travel across the country or out west. I love trains, and take them a lot in Europe so I'm not 'anti-train' at all. But unfortunately, freight trains have priority on most US rail lines and long distance passenger trains can run hours (and occasionally days) late.

williamscb13

No one has commented yet about the skiing aspect of your trip. Are you certain it has to be Aspen? There are some great ski resorts in California near San francisco if it's just skiing you are looking for.

New Year's Eve is the busiest time of the year for ski resorts. Expect lots of lift lines in Aspen during this time period. It can also be bitterly cold. For instance this year, I know temperatures were hovering around 0 degrees at New year's this past year. You also need to look into lodging soon since it's so busy then, lodging may be difficult.

I personally think 4 days in NYC is plenty and would add or use an extra day somewhere else.

Gardyloo

I think the biggest risk factor as many of you have mentioned are the flight cancellations. Not sure how we can get around that - perhaps just taking trains where possible instead of slights?

One of the big differences in air travel in the US as opposed to Oz is the airlines' reliance on "hub and spoke" system design. To get from "secondary" (sorry - maybe "smaller") cities to other cities of similar status almost always requires two flights - from City A to a hub, then from the hub to City B. For example, Charleston to New Orleans would involve a plane change in Charlotte, Atlanta or maybe Miami, or even Dallas. There are a few "point to point" routes between smaller cities, often flown by the likes of Southwest Airlines, but these are far from numerous.

The problem with winter travel is that it's often the hubs that get whacked. As the planes get delayed because of weather in hub cities like Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Detroit, Newark... the whole system goes into temporary paralysis, affecting many, many cities that are dependent on the hubs for arriving as well as departing flights. Every winter one sees this on TV - families sleeping in airports, complaining about missing connections, etc. If your schedule is so tight that these kinds of disruptions create a domino effect.. you miss a day in Charleston which means you miss a day in New Orleans, which means you miss your flight to Dallas to connect to Colorado... well, you get my drift.

It's for this reason that I'd suggest you look at focusing on "nodes," or places where you can venture out in a car, or use a train, for day trips, instead of stringing together some long rope-like itinerary that is vulnerable to these events.

Take Philadelphia, for example. (Now, I'm not saying NOT to stay in NYC, but just as an example.) From Philly you can be in midtown Manhattan in around 80 minutes on the train, or on Capitol Hill in Washington in 90 min. That's far less time than it would take to load up the car and schlep from one hotel to the next, or go to the airport and go through all that yoga to get on a flight.

Same deal in California - stay in some place like Long Beach (one must be choosy, but doable) and you can be at Disneyland or Beverly Hills in 40 min. Or San Francisco, where you can visit the wine country and part of Calif. Hwy. 1 (the part north of the Golden Gate Bridge, wonderfully scenic) in the same day, then go down to Monterey for the aquarium or Cannery Row the next. You had the right idea in Vegas - a day trip to Death Valley; the problem was that it was too far. But Palm Springs to Joshua Tree is a slam dunk - around an hour each way.

So look at your own "hubs" where you could base yourselves for some local exploring, rather than relying on delay-prone air travel at a tough time of year.

Placename

Four days on Hawaii is not really enough time. It is the biggest of all the islands.

Placename

San Francisco is vastly more interesting than Orlando. Take a night from Las Vegas and from Grand Canyon (one night is enough in December) and the Orlando time and give them to San Francisco.