And the subway is not slow - it's the fastest way to get around except late at night - after midnight - when a cab may be as fast.

During rush hours it will be mobbed - standing room only - but that doesn't slow it down. And the trains run every few minutes.

NYC doesn't have the equivalent of Fisherman's Wharf. The South Street Seaport isn't even like that. There aren't lines of seafood restaurants on th waterfront there, just mediocre and plain bad restaurants around a beaten-down mall. The historical ships can be interesting, though.

All the downtown sights you mention (Federal Hall, the Museum of the American Indian, etc.) are good and worthwhile on your downtown day, and most of them are free. The best downtown museum is the Museum of Jewish Heritage, but it's not free. Still, it's well worth the time and provides a very nice accompaniment to Ellis Island.

Anyone who tells you the subway is slow is talking about commuting from the outer boroughs. During the day, it's so much faster, cheaper, and easier to get around by subway that there's no contest. Unless you prefer to spend $15 every time you want to move to a different place. Subway or walk. That's what most New Yorkers do. (Sometimes the bus ... but it's very slow, though the only practical way to get up and down the far east side.)

I'd go with the bus. The Greyhound e-ticket prices are $20 one way, and $35 roundtrip. Go to the main greyhound page and click on e-tickets (toward the bottom left of the screen). If you don't click on the e-ticketsd it brings you to the regular pricing options which are more.

The bus doesn't take much longer than the train. Flying, if you include getting to the airport early to check in and transportation to and from the airport, doesn't save you much time either. Also the bus runs fairly frequently, usuall about every hour and more often during busier times of the day.

If budget is the most important thing to you, I'd take the bus. If you have a little more $$ and value your time, I'd take the train. My last choice would be to fly to NYC. It will take you almost as long as the train by the time you get to the airport in time to leave and get out of the airport. Plus, you will have the expense of getting into the center of the city (on each end).

"NYC doesn't have the equivalent of Fisherman's Wharf. The South Street Seaport isn't even like that. There aren't lines of seafood restaurants on th waterfront there, just mediocre and plain bad restaurants around a beaten-down mall."

That's kind of funny, because I always think of South Street Seaport smaller, but almost identical to Fisherman's Wharf. Doug, I think you described Fisherman's Wharf to a tea -- except it's bigger and has more of the same.

Why are you asking the same questions here that you started asking on October 10 at trip advisor? Have you figured anything out yet?
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic..._New_York.html

"The American Museum of Natural History appeals to me. Or the National Museum of the American Indian since I have seen the one down here in DC, I want to see the one in New York."

Why would you want to spend your first trip to NYC to see the same kind of stuff you have already seen?

I don't understand why asking questions here that were asked on TripAdvisor merits a rebuke. Are all the people on here also on TripAdvisor (I'm not) and vice-versa?

Also, NeoP, while I completely agree with your general assessment of Fisherman's Wharf (mediocre and bad restaurants around a beaten down mall), it is very different from South Street Seaport, which is more like Pier 39 on steroids (meaning chain stores, which Pier 39 is not). At least Fisherman's Wharf was ORIGINALLY a "real" area, with Ghirardelli (then a chocolate factory) and the Cannery (then a cannery) and fishing boats. It was not built TO BE a tourist attraction, which makes it very different in my book.

I post on tripadvisor and fodors to get different opinions. I have gotten valuable info from both forums. About a waterfront area, is there any park on the waterfront? Any good seafood restaurants on the water not necessarily in a fisherman's waurf type area? I guess the bus takes four hours or so. The train is probably only a half an hour shorter. I think it takes 3 1/2 hours. I think I want to base myself in midtown, that is also where the bus arrives.
Here is my revised itinerary:

Day 1- Get on bus at 6 AM. Arrive at 10 AM. Go up in the Empire State building, see Grand Central Station, walk around Broadway and Times Square and other parts of Midtown.

Day 2- Take subway to Lower Manhattan. Take ferry to the Statue of Liberty and go inside the statue. Also, see Ellis Island. Check out Battery Park, the World Trade Center site, Federal Hall, Wall Street, the museum of the American Indian, and the Brooklyn Bridge and walk partway across it. Eat dinner in Chinatown.

Day 3- See the American Museum of Natural History. Stroll Central Park. Maybe do Top of the Rock or St. Patrick's Cathedral.

Day 4- Do either St. Patrick's Cathedral and/or Top of the Rock if I didn't do it the day before. Take a tour of the United Nations Headquarters. Take the bus home no later than 5 PM.

Will this work? Should I change somethings around? What places are to far to walk between and require the subway? Do you usually have to transfer trains or are most trains usually direct? I don't mind walking a lot. Subway or walking, what ever is faster, is all that matters to me.
Thanks-

If you will be at the UN, cross the street to the Beekman Tower Hotel and go up to the "Top 0f the Tower Lounge." There are nice views from there too. '

<i>and walk partway across it</i>

How do you get back from the middle of the bridge :)?

The bridge is a mile long. That is a round-trip of 2 miles. I am saying walking to the half-way point and walking back. Where is there a good view of the bridge?

I think most people walk all of the way across and then go someplace in Manhattan rather than go back into Brooklyn to return to where they were.

Take the subway to Brooklyn and walk back to Manhattan - same 1 mile.

That is a good idea about taking the subway to Brooklyn. Did anybody read my revised itenerary, what do you think? Also, I had the question about a waterfront seafood restaurant or a place along the waterfront to walk around?
Thanks-

New York City doesn't really have any waterfront seafood restaurants, at least none you can get to by public transit. City Island is the place to go for a seaside seafood meal, but the only way I know to get there is by car.

The whole seaside dining thing isn't really an NYC experience. There are a few restaurants in New York with water views, but they are very expensive. I can't honest think of any place I'd recommend. But maybe someone who has visited as a tourist found something good that I'm not remembering.

The Water Club on the East River at 30th Street. (Easy Cab ride)

Water's Edge in Long Island City.
Mass Transit Directions To Waters Edge
The East River @ 44th Drive, Long Island City, NY 11101 (718) 482-0033
(Off of Vernon Blvd.)

From Brooklyn Or Manhatan: Ride the last car of the E or V train to the 23rd Street/Ely Avenue Station. When you come all the way upstairs/outside; you will be on 21th Street and 44th Drive. Walk straight up 44th Drive towards the Manhattan Skyline (which is the East River); the large Citibank Building should be behind you. (If coming from Queens/Jamaica, etc. ride the first train car, and follow the same directions.)

From Brooklyn Or Manhattan: Ride the last car of the #7 train to the 45th Road/Courthouse Square Station. When you come downstairs into the train station, go to the right clerk booth (you will see a sign for Manhattan), walk down the stairs and straight ahead on 45th Road about 2-3 blocks to Vernon Blvd. Make a right onto Vernon Blvd and walk 1 block to 44th Drive, make a left and proceed to the river/Manhattan Skyline.

Doug, You can get to City Island via 6 train to end of the line: Pelham Bay Park. Walk across the overpass to the park to catch the Bx29 bus to City Island. A lengthy trip, but it can be done.

I guess for a waterfront park, it would be Battery Park. Do anybody have any comments for the revised itenerary I made up?
Thanks-

On day one, what are you going to do with your luggage when you arrive?

The rest of the day sounds kind of aimless to me. &quot;Seeing Times Square&quot; is a walk through a congested and busy area, with tourist trap shops and restaurants. See it, and leave it. In the afternoon, walk straight across time to visit Grand Central (good places for to get some lunch), and add in the UN tour before or after that point if the schedule fits.

sorry, that should have been
&quot;walk straight across town.&quot;