7 weeks Canada and USA. Help with itinerary please.
 

We are an Australian family (Mom, Dad and 20 year old Daughter) planning a trip to North America (July / August). Daughter is heading to North America on university exchange – exact university she is accepted to will not be known for a couple of months yet. However, as we are acutely aware that this is peak season in USA, we need to get booking as soon as possible.
We generally love the “great outdoors” (beautiful scenery, great walks (but not serious hikes), cycling, photography), and think we will largely leave the cities to daughter to see on her own during her 6 months there (however, we are open to all ideas). As a general rule we like to stay in self-catering apartments or cottages, but realise this may not always be possible. Generally we like to stay in places for 5 – 7 days and travel out from there, hence avoiding moving around too much (although this itinerary does not really look like it).
Any comments on our planned itinerary (not yet booked so still able to alter) will be most appreciated.
29th June. Fly Sydney to Vancouver.
3 nights Vancouver (Times Square Suites Hotel).
Fly to Calgary & Collect Hire Car.
5 nights Banff area (probably Tunnel Mountain Resort)
1 night Icefields Parkway (Glacier View Lodge if we can get a room there). If no accommodation, the extra night in Banff area or Jasper?
4 nights Jasper (Patricia Lake Bungalows)
Return hire car to Edmonton Airport and fly to Jackson Hole USA. Hire car at airport.
1 night Teton National Park area (probably Jackson Lake Lodge)
4 nights Yellowstone National Park. Have not yet looked into accommodation here, but wondering about staying in 1 place, or 2 places to see different parts of the park
1 night Bozeman Airport (because early flight out next day). Return hire car.
Fly to Sacamento or Reno. Collect hire car.
2 nights Lake Tahoe (south?) Or perhaps 1 night.
3 nights Yosemite. (Probably Yosemite View Lodge - all accommodation is frightfully expensive at this time of the year)
3 – 4 nights San Francisco. Any suggestions for affordable, well located accommodation will be gratefully accepted.
Then Mom and Daughter have a further 20 days to see the country after Dad goes back to work. Seeing the National Parks is on the list. Thinking Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Moab, Monument Valley, (Arches and Canyonlands National Parks), Bryce Canyon and Zion NP. Have not nailed down this part of the trip yet. Long way with one driver?
Thanks for any suggestions offered!

Check for fees when returning a car in another state. If there is a big difference even with a one-way rental in the same state, rent the car in Sacramento.

I would echo the concern that the U.S. southwest desert destinations in summer will be very hot, so the California coast suggestion described above is a good alternative, or more of the Pacific Northwest (Seattle/Mt. Rainier/San Juan Islands/Portland, Oregon/Cannon Beach). For Yellowstone, you need to book accommodations as soon as possible because many people plan their visits a year in advance. Go here: http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/lodges.htm to make reservations inside the park, which is desirable. You can also get information about lodges in any national park from the National Park Service website, but it's a little tricky to figure out, so be persistent. If you can't get accommodations anywhere in Yellowstone (or other national parks), re-post a question about where to stay outside the parks. This sounds like a great trip. All the national park accommodations, but especially Yellowstone, need to be booked well ahead of your visit.

Good luck!

I really love southern Utah but, as mentioned above, it will be very hot. Driving along the coast from San Francisco (or Sacramento) - you could go either north or south. If it were my trip, I'd go north. Lovely possibilities include Point Reyes National Seashore, Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Mendocino, and the national and state Redwood Parks in the very northern end of California. If you go inland, Lassen Volcanic National Park is very nice.

Consider taking the train from Vancouver to Jasper and renting your car there - good scenery on the way. That route is on Via Rail, the Canadian national railway. If you can afford it there is also the private Rocky Mountaineer going to Banff, but I found Via Rail to be fine.

Check to see if your desired accommodations allow you to cancel without a fee.

If they do, go ahead and book them now. If the dates you picked turn out not to be the dates of your actually trip, you are no worse off than if you had not booked them (you just cancel with no fee). And if your trip comes together on the dates for which you made the reservations, then you have the places you wanted!

I would not rule out the Southwest National Parks--they definitely are worth a visit. If staying in motels, try to choose one with a pool to cool off at the end of the day. The car will have AC as well as the rooms and the eating establishments. It will provide a respite even if the outdoors is blazing hot.

So many choices. As for Lake Tahoe - south shore has more to do but north shore is also very beautiful. And check out taking the ski lifts up for great views and mountain biking down.

As for summer temps - it's not humid in the West - so I don't think it's that bad when it's warm - and if you are at a little bit of elevation (Zion, Bryce Canyon, Park City in Utah, Aspen and Vail Colorado, Grand Canyon, Az) - it's a bit cooler.

Think the California coast - from San Diego to SF - is an incredible journey - as well as enjoying your time here in San Diego - "America's finest city". :)

And I am originally from the Northwest - and love Oregon, Washington, Idaho, etc.

I agree with Michael and Tomsd. Take the opportunity to see the southwest. It'll be hot but get out early in the morning for hiking and choose lodging with pools.

Don't miss Zion and Bryce and be sure to take scenic route 12 from Bryce over to Moab - an incredible drive. With 20 days, you have plenty of time to do the Grand Circle some serious justice!

Thank you to all for your suggestions. Flights Sydney - Vancouver - Calgary booked with returns from San Francisco for Dad, from LA for Mom and from Vancouver for daughter. So it is all happening! :) Will start booking accommodation and car hire this weekend and will be doing further research on all above suggestions. It is interesting to see the varied comments on South Western National Parks. Definitely going to be hot, but daughter absolutely set on seeing them. Will perhaps pair that (say 10 days) with something very different. Even thinking spending a week in an apartment in New York (I know! I know! Criss-crossing the country, but it is all relative I guess).

If you're lucky - you will see some great wildlife on your tour - and then you can see some wild two legged ones in the Big Apple. :)

Banff is a little more than an hour from Calgary. The Many Glacier area of Glacier National Park is only about 3 1/2 hours directly south of Calgary.

Spectacular scenery and wildlife there as well.

New York is fabulous, and you should definitely go if you have the chance, but just want to fore-warn you that apartment rentals are illegal in NYC. There are many wonderful hotels, but plan for prices to be quite a bit higher than they are in most of the rest of the country.

Overall, I like your plans! Have a wonderful trip!

Your already late for Yellowstone and Yosemite. Book ASAP!!

I've been to all of the places you mention. I wouldn't touch the Southwest Parks in July/August.

I would do Oregon/Crater Lake, Columbia River Gorge, Mount Hood, Mount St. Helens, Mount Rainier, Olympic National Park. Probably include a day or two at both Seattle and Portland. You could include Redwoods National Park too.

I think Yosemite is better experienced in June when the waterfalls are going. They could be going a bit in July/August, but could be totally dry. I like to see them rocking full blast.

Is it possible that your wife and daughter could come ahead of you and do Southwest and Yosemite in June?

So many great suggestions - thank you. Interesting to note the differing opinions regarding the S/W National Parks and the weather.
Dear Daughter has her heart set on the parks, but we are still looking at all options. For the last 3 weeks (just Mom and Daughter) we are considering the following:

Itinerary:
• Arrive Las Vegas early morning (approx. 9am) Drive to Grand Canyon
• Lake Powell (2 nights) – self catering accommodation
• Monument Valley (1 night) – outside the park?
• Moab (3 nights) – self catering accommodation
• Bryce Canyon National Park (2 nights)
• Zion National Park (1 night)
• Las Vegas (1 night)

Then we will head across country for a "City Break".
Maybe 7 nights Philadelphia (Rest and relax, American history, opportunity for day trips into Amish country, Coast (?), etc) and then 2 nights NYC

Questions:
Grand Canyon – From Las Vegas it appears to be approximately the same distance to the north or south rim. Which is better? We would like to go to some lookouts, maybe some short walks in the cooler hours of the day. Don’t like crowds so leaning towards north rim

Moab / Monument Valley – As we only have one driver, are we being overly ambitious in attempting to reach Moab? (would love to visit the national parks but is it too much for one driver.....)

Thank you once again for sharing your invaluable insights.

I prefer the views at the south rim, but there are fewer people at the north rim and it is a little higher in elevation, so will probably be a bit cooler. Once you get away from the lodging area there are not many people in any case, since most folks tend to take the pictures from there. I would suggest you do take a hike down into the canyon at least a little way. I'm assuming that you are planning on spending a night there. Which you go to may depend on where you can get lodging. If you can't get lodging in the park, there is some in Tusayan or at Cameron Trading Post for the south rim, but it will be a long drive from the nearest place to the north rim.

There is lodging in Monument Valley and also in Kayenta, just south of it and Mexican Hat just north of it. It is only 3 hours or so from Monument valley to Moab, I would spend part of the day in MV then head for Moab in time for a quick hike before sunset.

If the park lodging says it is full, make a reservation elsewhere that can be cancelled the call the official park site back as the time gets closer and hope for a cancellation there and cancel the prior one. Don't depend on the web site as sometimes the cancellations don't get posted.

By the way if you want a bit of an adventure, when you leave Monument Valley, head for Mexican Hat then take rt 261 which has a section called the Moki Dugway (3 miles of unpaved switchbacks with no guard rails), up to 95 and then over to 191 to Moab. Stop in for a couple of minutes for pictures at Goosenecks of the San Juan state park. You could also stop at Natural Bridges NM if you wanted another park.

I like the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. As emalloy points out, it is cooler and there are fewer people.

Look around Grand Teton National Park for Yellowstone Lodging. It's pretty close.

I think you have too much time in Philadelphia and too little in NYC. While we love Phila., two days are enough to get a good view of it, as the historic area is very compact, while the one day you'd have in NYC is not nearly enough. Amish country is interesting, but VERY commercial--I wouldn't take time from a trip to the US to see it.

The North Rim is only 2.5 hours from Zion and it is a beautiful drive. I much prefer it to the South Rim, especially in summer. The lodge at the North Rim ( named Grand Canyon Lodge) has cabins that are inexpensive and located very close to the rim. There are some nice walks along the rim, and a short walk down into the canyon on the North Kaibab trail is well worth the effort. The short trail out to Bright Angel Point ( about 1/4 mile, paved) will give you amazing views of the canyon. I like to walk out there at sunrise and sunset.

Reserve a cabin or room at the North Rim from Forever Resorts:

Www.grandcanyonlodgenorth.com

Their website shows cabins available throught July and August, but you should book ASAP. They have a good cancellation policy if your plans change.

I would agree that you need more nights in New York City, unless you have already been there. There is so much to do and see there and never enough time. I would reduce the time in and around Philadelphia and add it to New York.

Have to concur with several posts above about the north rim being better than the south rim. It's extremely crowded on the south rim and unless you plan on hiking pretty far down into the canyon, you won't be able to get away from the crowds. The north rim has lots of great views and the lodge has a great deck/observation room. WE did a few short hikes on our trip last summer:
http://discoverthewest.blogspot.com/...nd-canyon.html

Also, about 40 minutes outside of the north rim is Jacob's Lake Inn and Restaurant. Stop there for some of the most incredible assortment of homemade cookies. We loved the German Chocolate Cookies!

Busy schedule.

Lake Tahoe - Make reservation at South Shore not North Shore. Insure you take the tram to the top of the Heavenly Mountain Ski Resort for an excellent view of Lake Tahoe while having lunch.
Lift map of that mountain (lower right is the lake)
http://www.skiheavenly.com/the-mountain/trail-map.aspx

Yosemite - make reservations now - exceptionally crowded

San Francisco - it is all expensive. Driving/parking is an adventure especially for manual shifting (hills) To save money and driving terror, you can stay outside of SF and ride in on BART 'subway' Take a commercial bus tour of SF. This is a map of that system
http://search.yahoo.com/local/s;_ylt...rancisco%2C+CA

Parents - Suggest buying them a book to plan that trip. This book has very detailed driving and park descriptions of those areas.

http://www.southutahparks.com/

<i> Driving/parking is an adventure especially for manual shifting (hills) </i>

Parking at the Stockton/Sutter St. garage is relatively inexpensive. Look at the third listing here and compare prices with the other two listings:
http://www.unionsquareshop.com/parking.html

As for driving a shift car; it is unlikely that a rental will be a shift car unless it is a specialty car. Besides, anyone who drives a shift car <b>regularly</b> should have no problems in SF.

Thank you all for your wealth of varied advice. After much consideration and hours and hours of planning, it has all come together and we have booked.

In summary, after 12 days in the Canadian Rockies, we fly to USA (Jackson Hole).
* 1 night JAckson Hole (Virginian Lodge) - near airport.
* 1 night (2 full days) Grand Teton NP(Signal Mountain Lodge)
* 4 nights Yellowstone (Canyon Lodge - you were all correct about difficulty in getting accommodation in Yellowstone).
* 1 night Bozeman (for early morning flight next day)
* Fly to Sacramento
* 1 night South Lake Tahoe
* 3 nights Yosemite (VRBO Alpine Escape)
* 3 nights San Francisco (without car - staying South San Fran in self contained unit attached to someone's home. Perhaps not ideal location, but transport seems reasonable, price is great and accommodation looks good, so happy with decision here)
* Dad flies home and Mom and Daughter fly to Las Vegas
* 1 night Las Vegas (Homewood Suites by Hilton at airport)
* 1 night Grand Canyon (North Rim Lodge)
* 2 nights Lake Powell (Self catering Motel)
* 1 night Monument Valley (The View Hotel)
* 3 nights Moab (Cliff Rose Flats)
* 1 night Bryce Canyon (Best Western Bryce Canyon Grand Hotel)
* 2 nights Zion/Springdale (Zion Park Motel)
* 2 nights (1 day) Las Vegas (Hilton Grand Vacation Suites on LV Strip)
* Fly to New York
* 7 nights New York (staying in apartment in Jersey City - yes, we spent hours looking at pros and cons of staying in NY vs NJ, and decided this will suit us well. Not planning on rushing around NY, but taking things slowly, waking up and saying "what shall we do today", cooking in, visiting friends in New Jersey, a few shows on Broadway perhaps.)
* Mom then flies to LA for 1 night. Daughter - still up in the air where she is off to from there.

Sounds like a plan! For Yellowstone lodging, keep your rooms and then call back as the time gets closer and see if something opens up at OF or the Lake Hotel for a couple of nights, then cancel your canyon lodging nights. People do cancel as the time nears and they find they can't make it.

Do get NP pass at the first park you enter. If you are over 65 it is $10 and good for a lifetime, otherwise $80 and good for a year and lets everyone in your car in the park. You will spend more than that with the individual entries given the number of parks you will go to.

I don't think you have to be US Citizen to get the $10 deal, if your over 62 not 65. You would qualify for the $80 Park Pass.

I like your plan. 7 days in NY would be a bit much for me though. I might have selected other places besides your Utah and Yosemite for that time of year. Falls are not going to be running at Yosemite(this year is super super dry) and to me that is the primary reason for going there. Part of Utah is likely to be brutally hot. I think this summer is likely to be a very high fire season year. Hopefully, they will get a lot of rain and snow the next couple of months.

<i>I don't think you have to be US Citizen to get the $10 deal, if your over 62 not 65. You would qualify for the $80 Park Pass. </i>

This may depend on the ranger at the desk. French friends of ours were traveling through the West years ago, and sometimes they got a senior discount, and sometimes they were denied the discount. But I do not know if they tried to get the Golden Pass.

Good that you booked a place in Yosemite West - If one can't get into the Valley, YW and El Portal are the only places w/i a reasonable commute.

To get that $10 lifetime senior pass, you do have to be either a U.S. citizen or a permanent resident, and over 62. http://www.nps.gov/findapark/passes.htm

But the $80 annual pass is available to everybody. It's a great deal.

I meant to say you DO have to be a US Citz.

spiro - yes, I rather thought you intended that. For me (a working woman still, in the U.S.), having 7 weeks to vacation is simply mind-boggling. All the options this presents!!

Still, it's a huge country. My main concern is the issue of renting a car in Canada and returning in the U.S. (is that even possible?). Given that amount of time, maybe think about some car rentals that return at the same place and then fly to the next spot. For example, we have flown into Phoenix to spend a week in Sedona/Grand Canyon/Tucson/Saguaro NP and then flown to Salt Lake City for another week in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons.

Apologies, I missed the line about returning the car. Ignore my comments there.

I can't believe so much is now etched in stone with still no clarity on the daughter's final school destination.

It IS February already, so "we" should be learning soon...

NorthwestMale, we too are still waiting to hear. All we have heard from Sydney University is that there has been a delay in the processing (summer holidays here!?)and we will hear mid-February "at the earliest" ..... that is Saturday (if one is to be exact), and still no news. Will share the news once we hear! :)

We finally found out today where Dear Daughter has been nominated for. All going well she is off to University of Utah in Salt Lake City and is really looking forward to it. (Re the alcohol issue - it is a dry campus which suits her very well)!
Thank you all for your input into what should be a wonderful trip for our family, prior to her exchange experience. Now we deal with the practicalities of visas etc.

Whew! I know how anxiously you must have been, waiting for this news. Now you can really make some plans; enjoy!

Wonderful news. Sounds like you/she have some great areas to explore while DD is in Utah. Don't miss Arches, Canyonlands, Bryce, Zion, Capitol Reef, Escalante, Dinosaur........it's all good.

ROFL @ the dry campus suiting her very well.


Anyway, I love Salt Lake City (er, well, <b>after</b> you master the collection of South West Temple Avenue and <b>West South Temple Avenue</b>) (and <I>East North Temple Avenue</i>, along with <b>North East Temple Avenue</b>). The Capitol Building, at night, makes for a wonderful view of the valley below and the mountains to the east (best with a brilliant moon).

Glad that her destination is within earshot of most of your travel intentions, and that you can make for yourself a comfortable familiarity with the general region, both for her sake and for yours. So now, tailor your 20 days of freedom to incorporate lots of the very local flavor.

For the record, IF somehow I could <I>know what I know now</i> <b>and</b> be from OZ and shipping a daughter off to school in North America for a year... with those five possibilities in mind...

I'm <b>sure</b> Vancouver would be my top choice/preference.


And I know Cincinnati and Richmond would be #4 and #5 in some order.

... and I know that if I, personally, were caused to go to school in one spot or the other, between Washington, DC and Salt Lake City, <b>I would choose Salt Lake City</b>... <I>but</i> I admit that people from far, far away may prefer to be immersed in the U.S. Government and surrounds, as might be the case in DC.

The weather will be <I>(gee, gotta be careful here)</i>... <b>more comfortable</b> (on a 12-month basis) in S.L.C. than in DC... though <b>some</b> winter days/streaks will make you question that.

All in all I couldn't be much more content with the luck of your daughter's draw, with S.L.C.

It also sounds like your planned family trip will <b><I>complement</i></b> her anticipated experience very nicely.

(hope it now feels good to have ended the suspense, and to now have an <I>image</i> in mind)