125+ lbs. too much for a jet?
 

Last night I took JetBlue from NYC to Oakland. At the last minute they had about 5 stand-bys come on the plane. One of them, a woman of average size, sat down in the seat next to mine. 10 minutes later, an attendant came by and explained to her that the plane was overloaded and that because she was the last stand-by, she had to get off the plane and she would be put on the next flight. She did so with no objections. Can 125+ lbs. really make that much difference?

i don't know, and would rather not take the chance of finding out......

Depends on the plane - and not who but what else it is carrying. And yes, there was a singer and members of her entourage killed in the caribbean when a smaller plane took off overloaded.

Agree: do you really want to take the chance?

I'm not a pilot but if what happended did for the reason you stated, than I guess the answer would be a yes.

Of course, their could be an entirely different reason, like her ID wasn't in order or her bags wouldn't make it on board, and they used that issue to defuse a potential for someone getting hostile on board the plane.

On the NYC subway, for example, when they say "a sick passenger on the train ahead is causing the delay" it often means something entirely different.

JetBlue only flies one type of jet right now: Airbus 320s. Mid-size single-aisle planes.

But the airline is running real-time estimates of the total weight of the plane at all times: plane + passengers + crew + fuel + cargo. A slight amount of excess weight can make the plane more difficult to fly (longer take-offs, higher fuel burn rates, longer landings). American Airlines, during the holidays, delayed baggage on some flights due to excess weight (unfortunately, I was one of the people separated from their bags that memorable week).

A crash of a commuter turboprop a few years ago has as one of its causes excess weight (improper maintenance was the main cause). The crash nytraveler is referring to was that of Aaliyah-- and the puddle-jumper she was on was extremely overloaded (as was the pilot, it turns out).

I think they would just pull some luggage to make up for it - I had that happen to me on a flight, they had to pull my luggage. My guess is there was something else going on.

We own a float plane in Alaska and I learned during early flying lessons that regardless of size of a plane it can make a big difference. So I agree with others.

Do you think that might have just been a quiet way of getting that person OFF the plane? so as not to upset anyone else or something?

We had a group of 80 skiers on a flight once and the pilot came on and said we were over loaded because of skis, boots, bags etc. They took off luggage and skis. Some people in our group were ticked because their skis never made it to our final destination...

buckeyemom, but you all made it safely to your destination. This board wouldn't be the same without you.

In the United States of America at this period in its history there are very strict rules relating to airplanes.

Whether these rules make sense or not is inmaterial.

So, as someone explained, there's math to be done before an airplane takes off. The airline is required to countthe number of men,a nd of women (and do something about kids) and then multiply the passenger count by "average' weights, add in more averages for baggage, add in the fuel, etc.

And when the number comes up, it has be be below a standard.

Assuming brightness on the part of the government of the USA (not all that safe a boit, but anyway... ) the numbers will be different depending on the weather, too.

So, if the passengers plus stuff is over the limit, the airline has no choice but to cut the weight.

And, it's easier, once everything is added up, to get a person to walk off the plane than it is to find baggage crew, find a baggage wagon, drive it to the airplane, open the hatch, and then try to decide what to remove.

For standby passengers, the system is, at least, easy to interpret. The last standby on is the first one off.

It is, I note, interesting that you figure the airline is lying. Shame, really, how little respect there is for airlines nowadays.

I, too, wouldn't trust an airline CEO.

BAK

I was on a Twin Otter commercial flight last week where my cooler full of hundreds of dollars of frozen meat was offloaded (along with everyone else's baggage) because of high winds and tricky take-off procedures on a very short runway.

I was very worried about losing the money I'd put in the food, but was still more concerned about the safety of everyone on board. They even considered off-loading passengers, as well, and I was going to be the first to volunteer.

I'd prefer not to take any chances in any flight situation and would never think of complaining about lost time or baggage in order to have a safe flight.

Once on an American Eagle flight on a 36 passenger plane, we waited for an hour while they got 18 people to volunteer to take a later flight. Not because the plane was overloaded or oversold, but because the pilot was only licensed to fly 18 passengers. Now that's SCAREY!!

Patrick, you want to know scary. One time we decided to fly instead of driving to see our daughter. We flew on United from SFO to LAX. And then caught a commuter plane from LAX to Oxnard. All was fine.

Way home. Got on the commuter plane in Oxnard to fly to LAX. All passengers aboard. All crew aboard. Engines are started. Plane started to roll down the runway. Passengers all started screaming. Exterior door to plane had not been shut!

Good grief. Co-pilot got out of his seat in a huff, walked back, pulled the door shut, glared at the passengers and went back to his co-pilot seat and off we went into the wild blue younder.

Passengers very quiet on the short flight to LAX. Funny now, it wasn't then.

On an American Eagle flight from San Diego to LAX, we had to rearrange ourselves before takeoff. They moved some of the people from one side of the plane to the other.

It doesn't give you that warm fuzzy feeling.

In a word - yes. You can overload a plane. and given that their weight and balance is based upon ESTIMATES - not actual weighing of passengers and bags - they err on the side of caution.

Aaliyah is one example. Her handlers insisted on taking everything, and the pilot, who DOES have the last word - caved in to their pressure. Shame on him - but most, if not all, died.

The tragedy in Charlotte, NC, a few years ago, is another one. (that also had to do with the mechanic rigging the elevator cables improperly though - they couldn't get the nose down enough, and the plane stalled).

Long and short, no matter what kinda plane you are going on - what the pilot says, goes. If you are going on a small plane (4-6 seater) don't let vanity take over - tell the truth about your weight, if the plane is gonna be full.

Loveitaly and Patrick:
Thanks for the good laugh this morning! OMG!

kmpordagee - that isn't anything to worry about. Balance is just as important as weight. If it's not in balance - bad bad. It should be more comforting that they paid attention and balanced the plane out.

BAK - the weather makes a huge difference. Hot humid days will make the plane "think" it's at a higher altitude than it really is - takeoff roll is longer - landing is longer - and it cannot go as high as it normally would. It bumbles and stumbles. Cold weather is where it's at.

The easy definition.

I keep passing this thread and its title and it makes me think (sometimes a rarity). Of course 125 pounds makes a difference. Imagine there are 20 extra people waiting to get on an already full plane. Each one ways 125. How many would you let on? Just one, thinking 125 pounds won't make any diffence? Ok, then let on just one more -- how could just that 125 pounds make a difference? Then one more. Get the idea? How many would you let on before you decided it was THAT 125 pounds that made the difference?

On an apprx 50 seat regional jet, I was asked to move from the back to the front of the plane "for reasons of weight and balance". I weigh about 110. I wasn't the only one chuckling as I moved.

Patrick, i would have been one of the first to volunteer to get off!

As others have said, balance is important as weight. I know of one case where a pilot of a medium sized prop airplane loaded a set of boxed encyclopedias in the rear baggage section of his plane. The plane was well under the allowable gross weight but, when he took off, the aircraft balance was so far out of acceptable range that he was unable to lower the nose and the aircraft stalled and crashed.

Be thankful the airline personnel are paying attention to weight and balance, no matter the size of the airplane. Not only are they required to, it is for your and their safety.

They might also have a built-in variable that adds so-many pounds of luggage per passenger, so they might actually have been trying to save 160 lbs. in theory, regardless of whether she actually had 35 lbs. of carryon + checked luggage. Let us not forget, also, the CYA theory of approving a plane for take-off.

DH once flew on flapping-wing aircraft from Provinceton to Boston and caused a delay because his carry-on briefcase turned out to be too heavy for under-plane storage -- had to be placed in the nose under the cockpit, and they tried first the right and then the left side before they were satisfied that the plane would fly right. A little unnerving to watch that, esp. since the pilot wore a mini-skirt and cracked her gum while she ordered 3 pizzas from a place in Boston for her to pick up and carry back for lunch.

I had an interesting experience once flying a turbo-prop flight by Aero Mapiex in Panama.

Before boarding, everyone was asked their weight, their baggage was weighed, and all carry-on items were weighed. I had never seen so much attention being paid to the total weight of each passenger!

Have fun!
Mark
www.tiogringo.com

funny story, I am not making up:

I read about a guy who was transporting a bunch of goats - I remember he said it was 800 pounds of cargo (goats). I don't remember how big his plane was, it was a small prop plane but at least big enough for cargo - just the pilot and co-pilot seat.

When in the air, the goats all clustered around him and starting chewing on the seat, him, his hair, anything they could get near. He got so p'o'ed he did something scary (I can't remember what now) and they all freaked out and ran to the back of the plane. Needless to say, this is bad news - 800 pounds of goats at the back of the plane. So he had to somehow coax them back to him again, and fast! And he couldn't chance scaring them off again.

He landed just fine, but they had eaten his shirt and the upholstery on his seats. But at least he landed!

Now that's funny!

OK, get ready for this. A former drama student of mine used to be the stage manager for Seifried and Roy and did their international tour -- much of which was in Japan. Then they flew back to the states to perform it at Radio City Music Hall. One transport plane was for the elephant. The story is you can't sedate an elephant for very long so they had to allow it to stand fastened in from all sides. You know how an elephant sways when irritated? They say there was a man with a loaded gun ready to shoot and kill the elephant, should it start to sway, as that would cause the plane to plummet. They couldn't shoot it with a tranquilizer in case if started swaying, because any tranquilizer would take too long to take effect. Fortunately the elephant never got agitated or swayed.

How do you keep a tethered elephant happy?

Free drinks and buckets of peanuts? Movies on a private DVD player? Maybe let him watch Dumbo?

Great story, flygirl! I have traveled around the islands with everything from KFC and Burger King to live chickens, to tires, to fresh lobster, and every household item imaginable.....but NEVER live goats. What a story. I do have to admit that I have experience with goats clustering like that when they are freaked, but haven't seen it happen on an aircraft. :D And, I'm not sure I'd care to see it happen either.