Single Supplements
Mar 7th, 2008, 08:17 AM
#21
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Sorry Suze,
I didn't mean to come off that way but I can see how I did, in trying to make a point.
You may have misunderstood what I'm looking for, for this particular story. I'm writing particularly on single supplements, not on solo travel or how to travel cheaply by going independently.
I do not pay for Hiltons when I travel on my own, and I am not an industry person, hence my unfamiliarity with the term AI. I am a traveler who writes about travel.
You're absolutely right that you can avoid the single supplement by traveling independently. And I will write about that as an option.
You also can avoid it while on tour by sharing a room, which some people appreciate and others resent.
What I'm trying to figure out is how to talk about the current business model that hotels operate under and how people who travel at all levels can work around it. Because yes, the single supplement is a burden on solo travelers who like to go on tours and some of whom will be my readers.
The story will include luxury travel as well as low-cost travel. The service I'm trying to provide through this story is help with how to deal with the single supplement at all levels of the hospitality industry.
Even people who spend tons on a cruise, say, would like not to have to pay double for the room. Even if they have money to burn.
I repeat, this story is focusing on the single supplement specifically, and how the hospitality industry might be changing to accommodate the many solo travelers out there who don't like to pay it. But also don't want to travel independently. Hope that helps.
Ellen
I didn't mean to come off that way but I can see how I did, in trying to make a point.
You may have misunderstood what I'm looking for, for this particular story. I'm writing particularly on single supplements, not on solo travel or how to travel cheaply by going independently.
I do not pay for Hiltons when I travel on my own, and I am not an industry person, hence my unfamiliarity with the term AI. I am a traveler who writes about travel.
You're absolutely right that you can avoid the single supplement by traveling independently. And I will write about that as an option.
You also can avoid it while on tour by sharing a room, which some people appreciate and others resent.
What I'm trying to figure out is how to talk about the current business model that hotels operate under and how people who travel at all levels can work around it. Because yes, the single supplement is a burden on solo travelers who like to go on tours and some of whom will be my readers.
The story will include luxury travel as well as low-cost travel. The service I'm trying to provide through this story is help with how to deal with the single supplement at all levels of the hospitality industry.
Even people who spend tons on a cruise, say, would like not to have to pay double for the room. Even if they have money to burn.
I repeat, this story is focusing on the single supplement specifically, and how the hospitality industry might be changing to accommodate the many solo travelers out there who don't like to pay it. But also don't want to travel independently. Hope that helps.
Ellen
Mar 7th, 2008, 09:47 AM
#22
I now understand what you're after, but it's not what you asked in your post.
You said:
"Has anyone found any tips for avoiding them?" and every one told you how to avoid single supplements. But ours was not the answer you wanted to hear relevant to the point you are trying to make.
As far as "I am not an industry person, hence my unfamiliarity with the term AI"... if you have ever read any internet travel forum or travel magazine it is an extremely common term. One you would know to be able to evaluate various packaged vacations, not exactly a technical term.
I am sorry if I sound confrontational but it is frustrating when someone comes asks their question, then disregards all the good input given, and keeps putting their own spin on things, regardless of what others try to contribute.
You said:
"Has anyone found any tips for avoiding them?" and every one told you how to avoid single supplements. But ours was not the answer you wanted to hear relevant to the point you are trying to make.
As far as "I am not an industry person, hence my unfamiliarity with the term AI"... if you have ever read any internet travel forum or travel magazine it is an extremely common term. One you would know to be able to evaluate various packaged vacations, not exactly a technical term.
I am sorry if I sound confrontational but it is frustrating when someone comes asks their question, then disregards all the good input given, and keeps putting their own spin on things, regardless of what others try to contribute.
Mar 7th, 2008, 12:35 PM
#23
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Suze,
Just two things and then I will jump out of the way on this.
I understand what all-inclusive is. I just hadn't seen it as "AI" before.
And, on the contrary, I'm not disregarding all the good information here at all. There's plenty I will use, after further researching what people have told me. Including the idea of traveling independently. It will be one part of the story.
But I can't quote anyone who doesn't give me a full name. That's the newspaper biz and my editor's requirement. The information won't be ignored. I just won't quote what anyone here has said, that's all. And that's a shame because people have said really interesting, on the point, things. But I also respect the writers' choice not to be interviewed.
So again, thanks to all of you who gave me tips, and if you come across anything else, feel free to post it here or email me.
And if you'd like to chat for attribution, that would be great too.
Just two things and then I will jump out of the way on this.
I understand what all-inclusive is. I just hadn't seen it as "AI" before.
And, on the contrary, I'm not disregarding all the good information here at all. There's plenty I will use, after further researching what people have told me. Including the idea of traveling independently. It will be one part of the story.
But I can't quote anyone who doesn't give me a full name. That's the newspaper biz and my editor's requirement. The information won't be ignored. I just won't quote what anyone here has said, that's all. And that's a shame because people have said really interesting, on the point, things. But I also respect the writers' choice not to be interviewed.
So again, thanks to all of you who gave me tips, and if you come across anything else, feel free to post it here or email me.
And if you'd like to chat for attribution, that would be great too.
Mar 7th, 2008, 12:47 PM
#25
I really don't think there's much of a story here. No single traveler will have a good word to say about single supplements. No hotel, cruise or tour operator is going to want to do away with them, other than by having singles share. Unless and until hotel and tour operators figure the number of single travelers has reached some critical mass (don't hold your breath), nothing will change. Sorry to sound negative, but let's be realistic here. Oh, and what about the U.S. hotel system, where the charge is per room not per traveler, but nothing is said about single supplements?
Mar 7th, 2008, 01:45 PM
#26
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thursdaysd,
That's exactly why it's such a GOOD story. Single supplements are something solo travelers resent. I'm writing a story single supplements. It's all part of the story.
Now, I'm trying to find people who are willing to be quoted. That's my job as a reporter.
That's exactly why it's such a GOOD story. Single supplements are something solo travelers resent. I'm writing a story single supplements. It's all part of the story.
Now, I'm trying to find people who are willing to be quoted. That's my job as a reporter.
Mar 7th, 2008, 01:51 PM
#27
"Single supplements are something solo travelers resent"
Says who? You cannont possibly know what all solo travelers think. That's why I don't want to be in your story. Because I think you will twist it and say whatever you like, whether suits your agenda, whether it is true or not.
Single supplements are for suckers would be my quote. Travel on your own and avoid them. Problem solved.
Says who? You cannont possibly know what all solo travelers think. That's why I don't want to be in your story. Because I think you will twist it and say whatever you like, whether suits your agenda, whether it is true or not.
Single supplements are for suckers would be my quote. Travel on your own and avoid them. Problem solved.
Mar 7th, 2008, 04:56 PM
#28
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In defense of Ellen, many solo travelers have chips on their shoulders. The travel industry ignores us and penalizes us, and couples and families we encounter on our travels often think we're some sort of pitiable freaks (except when they compliment our "bravery"
. That's enough to give anyone a chip on their shoulder. As a male who travels solo in the United States, my shoulder has an extra chip that comes from couples and families instinctively fearing me as a rapist, child molester, or (most recently) a terrorist when I'm actually nothing of the sort.
Traveling independently is currently the most viable way to avoid the discrimination we face from packagers, but it's not practical for everyone. Some people are terrified of the prospect of visiting a foreign city (or even exploring their home town) completely alone, and particularly facing the shameful horror of eating dinner solo. An intrepid dedicated soloist may react with rolled eyes, but a packaged tour may be the only way such people can comfortably visit places they'd otherwise see only on Globe Trekker. And some people enjoy the pampering of cruises and resorts. In those cases, a solo traveler who can't coordinate vacation schedules with friends or loved ones (a common enough problem today even for happily married couples!) has the choice of paying a possibly unaffordable penalty or possibly sharing accommodations with a stranger. That's enough of a burden to weigh down anyone's shoulder with a stack of chips.
If you read Ellen's blog, you'll see she has a preference for active and adventure travel where the packager provides the "community." Someone with that preference probably would not know that "AI" means "All Inclusive," since she probably would never visit such a place herself. I had to pause when I saw the "AI." In my line of work, "AI" means "Action Item." There is no way I'd spend my vacation at a place that holds all-day meetings and gives people "action items" to work after hours! Or perhaps it means "Artificial Intelligence," so an AI resort might be a good place to send my computer on a well-deserved vacation. Since I'm not interested in an AI resort myself, it took me a while to realize it means "All-Inclusive."
I look forward to reading Ellen's article. I assume it will be useful and substantive rather than following the usual formula for articles about solo travel (i.e., dutifully recite the industry party line about "economics," and go on to tell singles where to look for roommates and list a few "single-friendly" companies that generously pair up strangers to avoid the "supplement". Perhaps the process of writing it will expose the "insiders" she interviews to the idea that millions of single people are eager to buy their products but resent being penalized and treated as third-class citizens.
I'm not optimistic about the travel industry changing its business model any time soon. But the more exposure this problem gets-- and the more assertive singles become about demanding the industry treat them as valued customers rather than troublesome exceptions to their business models-- the sooner some executive will get the message and use some marketing clout to change things. In the meantime, I'll tell anyone who complains about the penalty the industry calls a "supplement" to simply avoid packaged travel and go independently.
. That's enough to give anyone a chip on their shoulder. As a male who travels solo in the United States, my shoulder has an extra chip that comes from couples and families instinctively fearing me as a rapist, child molester, or (most recently) a terrorist when I'm actually nothing of the sort.Traveling independently is currently the most viable way to avoid the discrimination we face from packagers, but it's not practical for everyone. Some people are terrified of the prospect of visiting a foreign city (or even exploring their home town) completely alone, and particularly facing the shameful horror of eating dinner solo. An intrepid dedicated soloist may react with rolled eyes, but a packaged tour may be the only way such people can comfortably visit places they'd otherwise see only on Globe Trekker. And some people enjoy the pampering of cruises and resorts. In those cases, a solo traveler who can't coordinate vacation schedules with friends or loved ones (a common enough problem today even for happily married couples!) has the choice of paying a possibly unaffordable penalty or possibly sharing accommodations with a stranger. That's enough of a burden to weigh down anyone's shoulder with a stack of chips.
If you read Ellen's blog, you'll see she has a preference for active and adventure travel where the packager provides the "community." Someone with that preference probably would not know that "AI" means "All Inclusive," since she probably would never visit such a place herself. I had to pause when I saw the "AI." In my line of work, "AI" means "Action Item." There is no way I'd spend my vacation at a place that holds all-day meetings and gives people "action items" to work after hours! Or perhaps it means "Artificial Intelligence," so an AI resort might be a good place to send my computer on a well-deserved vacation. Since I'm not interested in an AI resort myself, it took me a while to realize it means "All-Inclusive."
I look forward to reading Ellen's article. I assume it will be useful and substantive rather than following the usual formula for articles about solo travel (i.e., dutifully recite the industry party line about "economics," and go on to tell singles where to look for roommates and list a few "single-friendly" companies that generously pair up strangers to avoid the "supplement"
. Perhaps the process of writing it will expose the "insiders" she interviews to the idea that millions of single people are eager to buy their products but resent being penalized and treated as third-class citizens.I'm not optimistic about the travel industry changing its business model any time soon. But the more exposure this problem gets-- and the more assertive singles become about demanding the industry treat them as valued customers rather than troublesome exceptions to their business models-- the sooner some executive will get the message and use some marketing clout to change things. In the meantime, I'll tell anyone who complains about the penalty the industry calls a "supplement" to simply avoid packaged travel and go independently.
Mar 7th, 2008, 05:11 PM
#29
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JBH,
Couldn't have said it better myself. And clearly didn't...
I'm excited to hear from people from all walks of life/travel and have been finding some interesting things in my research. Stay tuned.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And clearly didn't...
I'm excited to hear from people from all walks of life/travel and have been finding some interesting things in my research. Stay tuned.
Mar 7th, 2008, 05:19 PM
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Suze, have you ever met a solo traveler who <i>doesn't</i> resent the "supplement"? Do you know anyone who is happy to pay double the price everyone else pays, and who thinks it's entirely fair? I'd very much like to meet such a person.
I think the statement that "single supplements are something solo travelers resent" is <i>generally</i> true. To be complete and specific, the statement really should be "solo travelers who have ever looked at packaged tours or cruises resent the supplement." Someone like you who prefers to travel independently can <i>ignore</i> the supplement or <i>laugh at</i> the supplement rather than resenting it, which is perhaps the exception that proves the rule!
I think it's unnecessarily offensive to say that "single supplements are for suckers." As I said in my previous post, there are many people who can't or won't travel independently, or who simply prefer being part of a herd on a bus or a ship. I would not call them suckers just because they aren't as brave as you are. I think the point is that it is very unfair to give them the choice of paying double the price or sharing accommodations with a total stranger (if they even have the latter choice).
If they complain about that, my advice would be similar to yours. Work on acquiring the ability to travel truly solo, perhaps by starting with a weekend at a local hotel and trying some local restaurants. Then progress to more substantial trips until they're comfortable enough to take the trip they want, completely solo! Unfortunately, some people (perhaps many people) are either incapable of reaching that point or are capable of it when they have no other choice but otherwise find it less than fully enjoyable. They are not suckers, but merely different from those who are able to enjoy pure solo travel.
I don't know what Ellen is trying to accomplish, but I think anything that expands the options for people who travel solo (whether by choice or by default) beyond finding a stranger to share accommodations can only be a good thing.
I think the statement that "single supplements are something solo travelers resent" is <i>generally</i> true. To be complete and specific, the statement really should be "solo travelers who have ever looked at packaged tours or cruises resent the supplement." Someone like you who prefers to travel independently can <i>ignore</i> the supplement or <i>laugh at</i> the supplement rather than resenting it, which is perhaps the exception that proves the rule!
I think it's unnecessarily offensive to say that "single supplements are for suckers." As I said in my previous post, there are many people who can't or won't travel independently, or who simply prefer being part of a herd on a bus or a ship. I would not call them suckers just because they aren't as brave as you are. I think the point is that it is very unfair to give them the choice of paying double the price or sharing accommodations with a total stranger (if they even have the latter choice).
If they complain about that, my advice would be similar to yours. Work on acquiring the ability to travel truly solo, perhaps by starting with a weekend at a local hotel and trying some local restaurants. Then progress to more substantial trips until they're comfortable enough to take the trip they want, completely solo! Unfortunately, some people (perhaps many people) are either incapable of reaching that point or are capable of it when they have no other choice but otherwise find it less than fully enjoyable. They are not suckers, but merely different from those who are able to enjoy pure solo travel.
I don't know what Ellen is trying to accomplish, but I think anything that expands the options for people who travel solo (whether by choice or by default) beyond finding a stranger to share accommodations can only be a good thing.
Mar 8th, 2008, 04:30 AM
#31
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JBH,
I would also add that there are many types of trips that require traveling in a group. Try kayaking on your own through the Grand Canyon. Good luck getting a permit and a raft that you can maneuver on your own. Same with a whale-watching and sea kayaking trip I took.
I'm not a cruise type but if you'd like to take a cruise, you face the possibility of a single supplement. You can bike on your own but it requires a lot of route planning and there are safety issues. A lot of solo travelers choose to join a bike tour.
Independent travel is one kind of travel. It's going places on your own, at your own pace, however you'd like to do that. But that's not the only kind of vacation people want to take. For those who like some of the types of trips I've mentioned, a single supplement is involved.
I would also add that there are many types of trips that require traveling in a group. Try kayaking on your own through the Grand Canyon. Good luck getting a permit and a raft that you can maneuver on your own. Same with a whale-watching and sea kayaking trip I took.
I'm not a cruise type but if you'd like to take a cruise, you face the possibility of a single supplement. You can bike on your own but it requires a lot of route planning and there are safety issues. A lot of solo travelers choose to join a bike tour.
Independent travel is one kind of travel. It's going places on your own, at your own pace, however you'd like to do that. But that's not the only kind of vacation people want to take. For those who like some of the types of trips I've mentioned, a single supplement is involved.
Mar 8th, 2008, 05:52 AM
#32
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I just wanted to say that I agree with alot of what JBHapgood has posted in the last few posts.
There is a spectrum of current or potential solo travelers with different needs, with the hard-core independent travelers who would never consider a package tour, cruise, or all inclusive (AI) resort being at one end. At the other end, there is the opposite type of person; someone who may be less experienced with travel and is intimidated by the idea of solo (independent) travel, is newly single, and/or just does not enjoy being alone and would not eat dinner out alone much less go on vacation for a week or more alone. Ellen, I think, is targeting the entire spectrum of solo travelers, and for travelers who prefer cruises, AI resorts, and tours, I think almost everyone would agree that the single supplment is a major issue.
Personally, I am not that familiar with packaged tours (I believe that there is a lot of variation in what is included in terms of meals and activities), but the type of single supplement that I find most egregious is the one imposed by crusises and AI resorts, where solo travelers are forced to pay double or close to it, despite the fact that a large proportion of the AI cost is for food, drinks, and activities, and clearly a solo traveler is not going to consume the same amount of these things as two people. This clearly seems like price gauging.
While I generally am more of an independent traveler, within my comfort zone which I admit is narrower than some of the indepedent travelers who post in this forum, I welcome developments that will make solo travel more accessible and appealing to a larger audience and hope that the continuing focus in the media on the single supplement and related issues will result in gradual change in the travel industry from the limited options and prohibitive pricing that are available to solo travelers today. I also personally find it useful to see specific suggestions of solo-friendly (from an economic and other perspectives) options, because I believe that one way that solo travelers can help to change the status quo is by patronizing businesses that are doing something to treat us fairly and recognize us as valuable customers.
There is a spectrum of current or potential solo travelers with different needs, with the hard-core independent travelers who would never consider a package tour, cruise, or all inclusive (AI) resort being at one end. At the other end, there is the opposite type of person; someone who may be less experienced with travel and is intimidated by the idea of solo (independent) travel, is newly single, and/or just does not enjoy being alone and would not eat dinner out alone much less go on vacation for a week or more alone. Ellen, I think, is targeting the entire spectrum of solo travelers, and for travelers who prefer cruises, AI resorts, and tours, I think almost everyone would agree that the single supplment is a major issue.
Personally, I am not that familiar with packaged tours (I believe that there is a lot of variation in what is included in terms of meals and activities), but the type of single supplement that I find most egregious is the one imposed by crusises and AI resorts, where solo travelers are forced to pay double or close to it, despite the fact that a large proportion of the AI cost is for food, drinks, and activities, and clearly a solo traveler is not going to consume the same amount of these things as two people. This clearly seems like price gauging.
While I generally am more of an independent traveler, within my comfort zone which I admit is narrower than some of the indepedent travelers who post in this forum, I welcome developments that will make solo travel more accessible and appealing to a larger audience and hope that the continuing focus in the media on the single supplement and related issues will result in gradual change in the travel industry from the limited options and prohibitive pricing that are available to solo travelers today. I also personally find it useful to see specific suggestions of solo-friendly (from an economic and other perspectives) options, because I believe that one way that solo travelers can help to change the status quo is by patronizing businesses that are doing something to treat us fairly and recognize us as valuable customers.
Mar 8th, 2008, 08:56 AM
#33
I am in agreement that the reason single supplement has never once come up for me personally, is because of the kind of vacations I like to take.
Ellen, If you'd stated from the start more specifically we were taking about kayaking the Grand Canyon or adventure group activities, cruising, whatever, I would not have answered as I did. I was commenting in a bigger picture of "what are your options as a single traveler?" not on how to change travel industry fee structures.
Ellen, If you'd stated from the start more specifically we were taking about kayaking the Grand Canyon or adventure group activities, cruising, whatever, I would not have answered as I did. I was commenting in a bigger picture of "what are your options as a single traveler?" not on how to change travel industry fee structures.
Mar 9th, 2008, 10:03 AM
#34
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My request sure could have been clearer.
It would have been better if I'd said, does anyone know of ways to avoid the type of single supplements normally charged by tour operators and trip packagers? Are there tour operators, etc, who waive it or reduce it or offer some other incentive for solo travelers to book with them instead of a competitor. Or are there hotels that have single rooms that are cheaper than rooms that hold couples, or in any other way entice solo travelers?
Sorry about that. Ellen
It would have been better if I'd said, does anyone know of ways to avoid the type of single supplements normally charged by tour operators and trip packagers? Are there tour operators, etc, who waive it or reduce it or offer some other incentive for solo travelers to book with them instead of a competitor. Or are there hotels that have single rooms that are cheaper than rooms that hold couples, or in any other way entice solo travelers?
Sorry about that. Ellen
Mar 9th, 2008, 10:49 AM
#35
I agree, that certainly would have been more clear. Why don't you post a new thread with the questions you were hoping to have answered? I promise to stay off it so you can get more appropriate replies 
Kindly, Suze
Kindly, Suze
Mar 11th, 2008, 02:25 PM
#39
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All my life AI meant "artificial insemination" 
(dairy farm background)
It took me a few weeks of reading on Fodors to learn the new possibility of "all inclusive," lol.
This has been an interesting thread. Thanks for the information/conversation. Cheers.
(dairy farm background)It took me a few weeks of reading on Fodors to learn the new possibility of "all inclusive," lol.
This has been an interesting thread. Thanks for the information/conversation. Cheers.
