ClementineLdn

Hello dear Fodorites,

I have once again been struck by the travel bug and this time I am considering a trip to NW Argentina, a part of the country I have yet to see. During my initial planning, I got a little carried away and had all sorts of ideas about going into Bolivia and then to the Uyuni salt flats but that would mean the trip would last at least two weeks and cost a lot more than I can really afford. I don't think I'll be able to do it all, so it's either Bolivia only or NW Argentina only, and right now I'm going towards the Salta area (feel free to try to convince me otherwise if you think this plan sucks!)

As the flights are pretty expensive and I don't like flying, my tentative plan is to take an overnight bus from BA to Cordoba, where I would then spend a couple of nights. I haven't looked too much into what there is to do in Cordoba yet but all my Argentinian friends really rate it.The plan is to then bus it again to Salta and spend a few days in and around the area. From what I've read on here, it is much better if you have a car so that you can tour the area at leisure. I do not have a licence so can't do that. Will there be plenty to do/see anyway? I love the idea of the Tren a las nubes, but from what I can see, it only runs once a week. Has anyone done it? What did you think?

Any advice appreciated!

crellston

I love NW Argentina and have just come back from our third visit. However, although I am sure it is possible, I can't really imagine doing it without a car. Most of the sights are spread out and quite remote. A few like Purmamarca, Cacho and Huamhuaca can be done by public bus.

A guide and driver would be very expensive so some sort of group tour is probably the way to go. Argentina, despite the recent floating of its currency remains one of the more expensive places in South America. In terms of comparative costs, Argentina is two or three times as expensive as neighbouring Bolivia and I certainly would not discount that country on grounds of cost.

Rather than going via Córdoba, have you considered going via Iguazú? One of the not to be missed sites in SA. A straightforward if long trip by bus but worth it.

ClementineLdn

That was my concern - that not having a car would seriously impact on my enjoyment of the region. I'm interested in the city of Salta itself as well but I'm sure the greater Salta area has much more to offer. I will look into group tours - that could also be an option.

I know Bolivia is cheaper than Argentina, but the flight prices are astronomical from BA. I was initially considering going there overland from Salta (and still am half considering it) but it would make my trip very long. It would be crazy to go to Bolivia and not to the Uyuni flats but having researched the Uyuni salt flats tours, it seems pretty intense - a minimum of 3 days touring the flats, with 2 nights in basic hostels/refuges which are supposed to be very cold. I haven't really got any of the recommended gear (sleeping bag, warm clothes etc.) here with me in Argentina.

I've been to Iguazu already, and Mendoza. Cordoba seemed like a logical place to stop off, being roughly halfway between BA and Salta, especially since I've heard good things about it.

avrooster

Hi, ClementineLdn!

This is a link to my Salta trip report from ten years ago, when I was one of the most frequent posters on the leading travel forum, banned some time later for "telling it like it is" (my version).

http://tinyurl.com/huy5oqk

I'll ask Angie (AKA Flintstones and Giena) to reply to your post.

If you are into "local lore" I wouldn't miss the Maria Livia "pilgrimage", as it is quite interesting. See page 3 of my report.

You can certainly do some tours by bus with other tourists. Also on page 3.

But, if you can, I would do at least a one-day tour with Angie, as we did. Also on page 3.

Have a great time in our wonderful NW.

avrooster

Flintstones (angie): how is the Tren a las Nubes situstion right now??????

crellston

if you haven’t go the cold weather gear forget about Uyuni! Last month it was minus 20C on one night - cold even with the right clothes.

The trip between Salta and Uyuni is very long and quite involved via La Quiaca and Tupiza. An amazing place though.

avrooster

When top poster Crellston says: "Cacho and Huamhuaca" he means Cachi and Humahuaca. He'll blame his fancy computer. LOL!!!!

mlgb

AT the end of November in the salt flats and even near Laguna Colorada it is more pleasant but you still need warm jacket, hat and gloves for the mornings. Sleeping bag was not needed at night.

Bolivia is incredibly inexpensive so I think one should look at total costs rather than just airfare. Howece given her complaints about Montevideo, I don't see the OP being able to enjoy UYuni or any part of Bolivia for that matter. It isn't a luxury experience.I think for most experienced SA travelers, Bolivia is one of their favorite countries and quite safe.

ClementineLdn

Mlgb who on earth do you think you are to judge what I would or wouldn't like based on my not liking Montevideo? My experience in Uruguay had nothing to do with the place being luxury or not. I just found it quite soulless and dull. The best time I had in montevideo was when I went to a rehearsal of a murga with my friend, outside in the freezing cold drinking cheap wine out of a carton. I said that the bus was very good and the hotel I ended up in which wasn't a building site was top notch so you might want to explain where the judgmental attitude comes from. I have stayed in all sorts of hostels all over the world from Morocco to Chile. Ive slept on beaches, in parks and in tents in the middle of nowhere. This trip will likely be all hostels. I am not keen on staying in the salt flats because I simply dont have the gear for it. I don't think it would be responsible or fair to the rest of the tour group to turn up without the right clothes and equipment. Hence why I am looking to keep the Uyuni tour to one day, if I make it at all. The flights to Bolivia are so expensive that they are only a little cheaper than a return trip from Europe so there doesn't seem to be any reason to go now. It seems more logical to go to Córdoba then the Salta region as the bus prices are quite reasonable and very accesible from BA. I know that I don't have the time or money to get the most out of Bolivia right now so the question is really whether I go for a few days and get a taster for it or just leave it all for another trip when I can go with my winter gear and dedicate more time to it.

avrooster

ClementineLdn: I'm on your side, as clearly indicated in my post of Sep 27, 16 at 5:27pm in your Montevideo thread http://www.fodors.com/community/sout...montevideo.cfm

My suggestion: why don't you concentrate on the helpful posts you have received in reply to your question?

Answering your last question: Never been to that part of Bolivia, but, if I were you, I would "just leave it all for another trip when I can go with my winter gear and dedicate more time to it."

Have a great time in our wonderful NW.

ClementineLdn

Sorry avrooster! I was going to reply to everyone later when home with my laptop but that post got my heckles up! I will get back to you all ASAP! Have taken in all the advice and working on a draft itinerary on my phone right now, courtesy of the free wifi at Buenos Aires Design as I enjoy this glorious weather in Plaza Francia. I admit I may have fallen asleep for a while What a beautiful day!

avrooster

ClementineLdn: We should get an overwhelming majority of beautiful days during the next couple of months. Until it gets maybe too warm, at least for my taste!

flintstones

Hello, Dear Fodorites, Hello Clementine;
No doubt the NW is completelly different to any other destination in Argentina but also so vast and huge! I still insist on not taking the Train to the clouds even when the ads may turn you crazy, but the conditions of the rails are the same than 15 or 16 years ago. Unfortunatelly nobody is going to invest enough o make the train safe and efficient...
On the other hand, the NW offers you other circuits and tours which are as amazing as varied, and again... the distances are important, for what I think using buses is a little complicated because of schedules and coverage. A driver is the best option if you really want to squeeze your time.
I do not know when you are coming but the dates are very impoortant as the rainy season limits your chances to get into some places such us Iruya. That is January - February.
Something has changed in the last time that you should know. Bolivia is not cheaper to Argentina anymore. You can still buy clothes much cheaper than in Argentina because most of the merchandise comes from China, but you are not coming for shopping, I guess...
Well, coming back to your plans, you can find a good quote to do a whole package, but you need at least 6 days to have a good overview of the area. A week would be the best for you to enjoy town on your own.
Indeed, NW is stunning!
Warm regards,
Angie

ClementineLdn

Thanks for the advice and pointers everyone! I've been looking into the options. Need to get my skates on as I will be taking the trip next week! I was supposed to be going to Santiago de Chile with friends, but the trip kept getting postponed for personal reasons and now it looks like it might not happen at all, so I decided to take the opportunity to finally visit the North West!

So my tentative plan is...

Day 1 - Go to Cordoba on overnight bus from BA (this is now booked so I can't change this part).

Day 2 - Bus arrives in Cordoba early morning, 7am-ish. Book into a hostel (I will probably reserve something in advance) and spend the day exploring the city. Spend one night in Cordoba

Day 3 - Spend another day in Cordoba, take night bus from Cordoba to Salta.

Day 4 - Arrive in Salta.

I then plan to use Salta as a base to explore the surrounding area and stay for about 6 or 7 days. It seems that there are a number of tours and activities you can do if you don't have your own transport. I did these day tours where they come and pick you up in a minibus etc. in the Mendoza region and enjoyed them, so I'll give it a shot in Salta too.

I am particularly interested in El Tren a los Nubes and am curious about why you do not recommend it, Flintstones/Angie? Is there something I don't know such as a high number of accidents? If that were the case, then I would most definitely reconsider, but I cannot get enough of train travel and beautiful scenery!

Also the Maria Livia 'experience' is something which sounds fascinating. I would like to do a day trip to Jujuy, which is only two hours away by bus. Also starting to look into San Pedro de Atacama - I have seen reports online that the Salta-San Pedro route is considered one of the world's greatest bus rides. Any opinions?

I would, as mentioned above, absolutely love to go to Bolivia overland, and was tempted by how (relatively!) close Salta is to the border but it seems like it would take an entire day to get up to Uyuni from Salta and that it is quite a difficult journey and maybe too much hassle just to spend a couple of days in Bolivia. As mentioned, I would only be able to do a day tour of the Uyuni flats, so it seems like it would make more sense economically and logistically to stay in Argentina (and maybe a bit of Chile).

The plan would then be on about Day 9 of the trip be to fly back from Salta to Aeroparque - the prices on this route are not too bad and are comparable to the bus price. I have two options - Andes Air (cheaper) and LATAM (considerably more expensive). Any personal experiences? Recommendations? Horror stories?

crellston

unless something radical has happened in the last month, flintsones comment that "Bolivia is not cheaper to Argentina anymore" is simply not the case. The essentials of travelling, food, accommodation and air and bus fares are way, way cheaper. Around a third of the cost in Argentina.

If you want to add on a destination then do consider San Pedro de Atacama in Chile. It has similar, but IMO, less impressive scenery. It is expensive, even when compared with Argentina, but only takes around 8 hours by bus for Salta. The bus journey is very nice but I wouldn't describe it as one of the worlds great bus routes.

Getting to Uyuni could not really e done in one day. You would need to go either via Tupiza or SPdeA. In both cases you would need an overnight stay and the same on the way back. I would not bother with JuJuy.

avrooster

Well, there you are ClementineLdn.

The point of view of a local guide and the recent experience of a top poster.

Whatever you choose to do, I´m sure you´ll have a great time in my country´s NW.

avrooster

If you wish to ask Angie further questions, you can e-mail her to angie_guideAThotmail.com

She´ll be pleased to answer your questions, even if you choose not to use her services.

ClementineLdn

crellston - I meant a day to get there, a day to see it and then a day to get back to Salta. That's exactly what I did for Iguazu and it was one of the best things I've ever done, but then Iguazu didn't involve all the border crossings and different buses and taxis and so on. San Pedro de Atacama seems much easier because you can do the whole trip on one bus.

I've seen that you've done the Salta/Uyuni crossing overland - is it relatively obvious where you need to go (i.e. how to get to the border bridge from where the bus drops you off etc.)? Can you do a day trip to the flats from Tupiza?

flintstones

Just to clarify about the prices in Argentina and Bolivia...Not long time ago, the exchange was $Ars = 1 $Bol 2,5 the rate nowadays is $Bol 1 = $Ars 0,42.
Clementine, the worldwide famous Train to the Clouds is expensive considering the service, and the chance that the train has to cancel the trip for any reason at last time. I was a guide on this train many years ago and I know what I am saying and you can also check on this forum a post written many years ago, but so present that could have been written recently. " Angie was right". You can take a bus to San Antonio de los CObres and you will see part of the route of the train, the scenery is stunning specially before reaching Santa Rosa de Tastil. You can also stop there instead of the whole trip and return.
Unfortunatelly the loop named Calchaquies Valleys is not possible to do by bus...but you can take regular tours named "Vuelta a los Valles Calchaquies"
On your way to Bolivia you should stop in Purmamarca. Take into considerations you have to take separate buses from the Jujuy on to be taken into Purmamarca as many of the long distance buses will leave you 3 kms away from town. Form Purmamarca you can also go to Salinas Grandes.
Do not miss Purmamarca... Tilcara is another place to see. There is an archaeological site to visit and learn about the antique inhabitants of the gorge. If you cross to Bolivia just ask if you have to check for the short time you will stay there, and remember to check again when you return to Argentina or you will have problems when you leave our country.
Do not buy tickets in advance returning to Salta form the border. You never know how long it will take to cross the border. Normally to foreigners is fast and easy, but you never know. The officers sometimes want you to do a line and wait... sometimes, with better mood, they "comb" the lines and let foreigners to check quickly.
Anyway... if you cross the border do not miss Tupiza!!!
There are trains to the biggest salt flats form TUpiza, leaving at 6 p.m. on saturdays and wednesdays form Tupiza.
I love Bolivia!
Warm regards,
Angie/FLintstones

crellston

Clementine, it really is a very long drag to get to from Salta to Uyuni and back over three days. I would not dream of even attempting it.

I have done it twice in the opposite direction. Last month we left Tupiza at 07.30 am and arrived in Salta at 21.00. It was 7 hours from the border to Salta alone. It is a tiring and tiresome trip!


Tupiza to Uyuni would only be possible by train and, even then a return by train may not be possible after one night there. The roads are non existent for the most part and I doubt you would find an operator willing to do that trip.

The border itself is chaotic but not that difficult to negotiate although you do have to be fairly forceful in pushing and shoving to get to the immigration counters! The hardest part was finding the taxi rank to get a taxi to the La Quica bus station - we eventually found it UNDER the bridge!