Jess215

Well, I am on Pimsleur lesseon 7 or 8, and they are still being oh, so formal. I am an American woman, going to Rio - maybe Salvador, too - maybe other places. I am probably older than most of the people I will meet casually, - on a train, at a hotel desk, at the next table in a restaurant , shopping in a store, or making an emergency dentist appointment - that sort of thing - can I "voce" everybody and expect that they will do the same? If someone starts a conversation with "a senhora" - can I "voce" them ?- ask them to use voce? if it's a guy, am I sending a message that is more than friendly?
Thanks for any help,
Jess

Susan7

Most people I met seemed to used "voce" and I had no trouble using "voce" to address others. Brazilians are incredibly relaxed and friendly they are not especially formal, but they do correct your grammar (in a nice way)! A few thing when I got the gender wrong for a noun I was corrected, very useful too.

Have you tried Marina Gomes's Brazilian podclasses? You can download the lessons free from Itunes.

jfcarli

If you are formally addressing someone in a social, economical or political rank much higher than yours (say a governor, a mayor, the president, or your employer) or someone much older than you, it is always nice to address that person with the more respectful treatment of "senhor" or "senhora", until that person requests you not to do so.

Otherwise, "voce" will be ok. In fact, it will very likely happen that people will call you "senhora" or "senhor", while you will treat them by "voce". This will be the case of hotel employees, shop employees, taxi drivers, etc...

jfcarli

"...if it's a guy, am I sending a message that is more than friendly?"

Sorry, I forgot to address this question. Well, if you DID want to send a message that was more than friendly, this would be the trigger for that something else. It doesn't necessarily mean you want to convey that message, but it would be the starting point if you did mean.

Unless you are terribly upset by someone showing you some defferential treatment, like "ma'am" in English, or "Madame" and "mademoiselle" in French for instance, and unless you DO want to start something more than just friendliness, I see no reason why you should not simply accept the more respectful treatment.

Jess215

Also wondering about saying eu all the time. when it is obvious. Pimsleur seems to use eu and other sources do not. Maybe the later Pimsleurs change this, after they have drilled it into you. Does anyone know?
And what do people really say? You always use je in French - rarely yo in Spanish, ...so what model do I internalize? I am trying to make things easy by habituating myself to saying one thing or another most of the time. Instinctively, I tend to omit eu since to me Portuguese "feels" more like Spanish than like French.

jfcarli

If you are starting a sentence, you won`t sound strange if you always use the pronoun (any of them for that matter, I, you, he, she, we, etc...).

If you started a phrase with something else, you need not use the pronoun.

However, there are no fixed rules. You will have to play by ear.

Jess215

This is very helpful advice. Every culture is different, and interesting. I've spent the last hour exchanging e-mails with a couple in Paris I've known for maybe 20 years, and we are still vous-ing each other, and yet I "tu" their grown-up kids, because I knew them when they were little. Go figgah!

jfcarli

Yes, indeed!

I am Brazilian by birth, but I am also Italian. My Italian is not that great, but good enough. Anyhow, I feel sort of comfortable by "Lei-ing" almost everybody, except children, teen-agers and very young adults.

In 2007 we rented an apartment from an Italian lady in Asiago, northern Italy, and stayed there for a few months. We became quite good friends with the 75 y.o.lady. Inspite of our mutual friendship, we always addressed her respectfully by using "Lei".

My daughter, who lived there with us for the period we were in Italy and who is more than 40 years younger than the lady, since the very first day addressed her by "tu".

I personally thought it was rude from my daughter's part, but chose to keep quiet and let it be...

Oddly enough, the lady and my daughter got along so well by "tu-ing" each other that they became very close friends with the lady always carrying my daughter along wherever she went.

As you said, "Go figgah!"