Idioteque

Hello all! As this is my first post on Fodors I’ll introduce myself a bit! Please bear with me through all the “I”s & “me”s.

I’m a “make-your-trip-as-you-want” type of traveler. I don’t like the herd feeling most group trips seem to offer (ok, disclaimer: except for a few 1-day trips with groups, I’ve never been on a longer one because it’s not my piece of cake; that’s just the feeling I get when seeing large groups in touristic places).

I generally study & study & study the places where I’m going before I decide exactly. I love travelling & getting all the info I can keeps me “alive” between escapes. Also probably an important point, I normally travel with my husband (it’s funny to see this in print, after 2 years of marriage I still call him my boyfriend!). I prefer air travel to land travel (for convenience & safety, but I don’ exclude buses, taxis or private transport if it seems more appropriate), and it’s the norm to have 5-10 flights during our holidays. But! Traveling-wise we’re not exactly the same. I am more adventurous and like going & seeing, he likes going and seeing but also prefers to laze around, wake up late & do nothing. So we have an agreement: our holidays are about half & half, with at least a few days of beach-time (or lake-time/mountain-time but with late mornings in bed).

And now back to the topic at hand. It got stuck in my mind that I want to see Machu Picchu this year. That of course means going to Peru .

So I started investigating and making a plan. Which is where your opinions could come in handy!

To be continued...

Idioteque

And I'm back!

I have studied the forums far & wide (thank you for the great trip reports atravelyn, colduphere, Marija, Kat, Jochen, mlgb, shutterbug85, and of course everybody else) and combined with my own ideas I sort of have something going. But I still have questions.

Besides Machu Picchu and the Sacred Valley, I see Lake Titicaca as the second highlight for Peru. And I’d love to go to the Amazon.
I have initially thought of a Peru + Bolivia (Uyuni/La Paz) trip, however it seems the best flight offers from Europe are via Brazil. So why not Peru + Brazil, considering Brazil has a lot more to offer than Bolivia?
When Brazil came into the picture I saw opportunities for beach time (happy husband) and rainforest (happy me, I can live with the Brazilian rainforest in place of the Amazon trip in Peru ). I didn’t buy any flight tickets yet, I’m still waiting for good offers for the second part of the year. I am aiming at September – October. Should be still good weather for Machu Picchu, good enough for Brazil beaches (though not very hot), and perfect for Pantanal. Maybe the Iguazu Falls have less water but I can live with that. I think?!

The first rough plan looks like this:
flight: Brussels – Lisbon – Sao Paolo
flight: Sao Paolo - Lima
* 1 night Lima
flight: Lima - Juliaca
* 2 nights Puno
bus: Juliaca – Cuzco (InkaExpress)
* 2 night Sacred Valley
* 3 nights Inca trail
* 2 nights Cuzco
flight: Cuzco – Lima
----- 10 nights Peru
(also 17 nights Brazil, I'll make a separate post for that as for the Brazil part I have more questions!)

The 27 nights are a bit on the upper side of what we can afford (mostly time wise, but also money wise), before I started planning I thought of 22. These are also only “sleep-over” nights, but there will be at least 2 nights lost with the intercontinental flights. So I might need to remove 1-2 nights here & there. Or remove some "chapter" altogether.

First question would be about Peru. I'm not yet entirely convinced I want to trek the Inca trail as I'm not sure how we'll handle the altitude (we've been to 3000m in Europe but only briefly and I lived all my life at sea level) and I wouldn't like to pay for the trip and have to abort. Still thinking. I know that's personal so I won't ask help about that . I was however considering doing first the Sacred Valley and then Lake Titicaca as the lake is higher. On the other hand I think I would prefer being sick (well, I would prefer not being sick but in case it happens) at the lake not at MP. Am I seeing this wrongly or?

Secondly, are the 7 nights planned for the Sacred Valley enough or should I consider adding more? I thought the first 2 nights to sleep at Ollantaytambo, then 3 nights the trail ending with 2 nights in Cusco. Should I maybe try and stay 3 nights in Ollantaytambo (or Cusco), to have enough time to visit Moray, Pisac, etc? Thinking of how much travel is involved it would seem so...

For Puno I plan to sleep the first night (after the trip) in the city & have a sleep over at one of the families on the lake for the second night. It’s a bit touristic but by reading the reports seems like I would enjoy it.

Idioteque

The rough plan for Brazil is the following:
flight: Lima - Sao paolo
* 2 nights Sao Paolo
flight: Sao Paolo - Campo Grande
* 5 night Pantanal
flight: Campo Grande - Sao Paolo
flight: Sao Paolo - Iguazu
* 2 nights Brazil side
* 1 night Argentina side
flight: Iguazu - Rio
* 2 nights Rio
ferry: Rio - Illa Grande
* 5 nights Illa Grande
ferry: Illa Grande - Rio
flight: Rio – Lisbon – Brussels
-----17 nights Brazil

Going to the Brazil chapter, my confusion increases.

I figured I’ll need at least 2 nights/each big city to actually have the time to see something (I still regret going to Manila & only staying for a night/few hours in the evening so since then, if it’s possible, I allow at least 1 full day/2 nights for the places where I travel). If my final plan will seem too long, I’ll probably skip Sao Paolo though. Rio seems more interesting to me.

I’ve read opinions saying Iguazu falls might get less water in September/October as it is the end of the dry season. However, I guess the decrease in water flow wouldn’t be that significant, it’s not like the falls will dry out completely? Besides the temperature should be just right (not very hot!) and the place less crowded. Anybody has any opinions to share about this?

I’d like to go to Pantanal & do some nature-watching (wildlife, birds, maybe some fishing, canoeing & the like). By reading trip reports here & elsewhere I pretty much narrowed it down to Refugio Ecologico Caiman or Barranco Alto. That’s if they will have spaces when I will have my final travel dates set.

Do you have any other good suggestions of similar accommodations? Do you have preferences for one or the other? Is there an easier reachable place with the same profile?

Also, I seem to have problems finding out online what the approximate price ranges are for these locations? Most of the travel agents don’t have the prices listed. I did find some that do, but I got very conflicting information. Could somebody who has been there give me more information about what exactly they paid?

Another question is related to the relaxing part of the trip. I initially chose Illa Grande as it is close enough to Rio to not waste insane time on the road. However I wonder if it is really convenient or the best location? There would also be the option of going to Bonito considering we will probably be in Campo Grande. The area seems beautiful and we’ve never snorkeled in a river before. Or maybe even better, Buzios? There’s enough space to laze around and if we’re tired of sitting on our behinds we can take a few daytrips to the nearby islands (to laze over there as well) or to Arraial do Cabo. Anybody out there that has suggestions about this?

shutterbug85

Hi Idioteque!

I'm jealous of your trip! I'm itching for another vacation.

For your time in the Sacred Valley... Day-wise, it looks like this if I'm understanding your overnights:
1 day = InkaExpress (Puno-Cusco)
1 day = Sacred Valley
3 days = Inca Trail
1 day = Finish Inca Trail / Machu Picchu
1 day = Sacred Valley / Cusco

So you really only have two days for sights around the Sacred Valley. You could squeeze in most of the sights, but you'll be very busy. I would recommend at least one more day so you have plenty of time. We took four days to see the sights, but they weren't full days. Mostly 9AM-3PM, so I guess we could have done a little more. Plus we spent a good amount of time at each sight. mlgb will be able to give more specifics around time to travel between sights, etc.

Being sick at Puno vs. Machu Picchu... this will depend on how you react to the altitude. We did Puno first, and I did get altitude sickness. Some combination of the amount of time I had to get over, the medicine, and going lower by going to Cusco had me feeling better before the Inca Trail. Not 100%, but getting there. When you do the Lake Titicaca tour/overnight, there is a good amount of climbing. Amantani is essentially a small mountain of an island and Taquile has hills as well, but they're less steep. Being sick, I took it extremely slow. It wasn't an issue, except I opted out of climbing to the very top of Amantani. I'm not too sad I missed it. In my opinion, it would have been worse to have started my sickness on the Inca Trail. But I have no idea if I would have been as sick as at Puno.

Definitely do the overnight in Lake Titicaca. Touristy, yes, but also not at the same time. Really awesome experience.

I know you said you wouldn't ask opinions about the Inca Trail, but I'll throw my two cents in. I feel you'd regret it more if you didn't do it than if you do. We had people in our group with altitude sickness (myself included) and one with an infection (he was on antibiotics), and we all completed it. And all loved it and wouldn't have traded the experience.

Enjoy the planning!

Treepol

I wonder if you need 2 nights in Sao Paulo, is there anything special that you want to do there? Also, 3 nights at the falls seems a lot, unless you have a particular interest in waterfalls.

You may find that Barranco Alto is booked up, the folks there recommended Fazenda Baia Das Piedras to me so we will be there this July. We avoided Refugio Caiman due to the very structured days and the size of the lodges. Here are a couple of trip reports on Refugio Caiman that might be useful, http://safaritalk.net/topic/1885-a-n...safari-brazil/ and http://safaritalk.net/topic/3792-adv...umped-monjita/.

Have you thought of visiting the Northern Pantanal and combining this with a vist to Cristalino Jungle Lodge for a jungle experience? Here is a trip report in progress on these 2 areas - http://safaritalk.net/topic/10549-br...nd-big-waters/

The starting point for both Northern Pantanal and Cristalino is Cuiaba. In 2010 we flew Iguazu-Sao Paulo-Cuiaba in one day, with time to spare in Cuiaba.

This website has a good list of Northern Pantanal accommodations http://www.pantanal-pocone.net/en/pa...ada_piuval.php. Here are some links to Northern Pantanal trip reports, http://www.fodors.com/community/sout...ny-jaguars.cfm, ahttp://safaritalk.net/topic/3964-brazil-pantanal-trackers-in-search-of-the-jaguar-09/ and http://www.surfbirds.com/trip_report.php?id=2255

Happy planning,



Pol

luis31

Hi iditique your plan looks pretty good maybe u can consider to visit the desert in Peru as check the only oasis in America

Idioteque

Thanks shutterbug & Treepol for the replies.
I did not disappear, just thought I will wait for more replies. Seems they’re not coming. I’ll keep babbling a bit though, makes it easy for me if I put my thoughts on paper & maybe it proves useful in the future for other people doing the planning.

I have read most of the older trip reports on safaritalk (actually I would have posted this “planning” in there but somehow the admin never accepted my registration even after clicking the confirmation link a couple of times – maybe they don’t like my username? ) but I didn’t see the one of inyathi before, thanks for mentioning it .

I am still trying to improve the plan. Mostly to make it a bit shorter (and cheaper!), I wouldn't mind to be away for a month, but I’m sure it’s gonna be hard to get the time.

First and foremost, I put the Iguazu falls on “optional”. I’d love to go but maybe it’s a bit overkill to combine it with both Peru & the Pantanal. I’ll have to leave it for a (hopefully) future trip to Argentina. Or maybe a second trip to Brazil.

Second part I’m not so happy about is having to spend 2 extra nights in Puno (besides the overnight stay). There are two solutions as far as I see it: skip the overnight stay or take a night bus to Cusco. I’m inclining towards skipping the overnight stay, seems that I might enjoy the overday bus trip over the Altiplano. And I could use the extra night in the Sacred Valley.

I also pretty much decided to skip Ilha Grande and go to Buzios for a few days. The trip is shorter and there are more options for the accommodation. A disadvantage would be that it might also be more crowded. Oh well, maybe that’s not so bad.

As for Pantanal, though I was set on the South first, after letting all the information sink in I changed my mind and switched to the northern part. I have to decide between Julio from Pantanal Trackers, the Pantanal Pocone team or Natureco. Julio seems to be well recommended, anybody knows anything else about the other two? Or any other guide to recommend?

mlgb

I didn't notice that your question came back up here, Idioteque.

Maybe I already said this, but it isn't a good idea to fly from Lima to Juliaca if you can avoid that. A lot of people will have problems with the altitude. Instead I would start in either Arequipa or in Cusco (where you have the option to go down to the Sacred Valley). Then after you have spent a few days at higher elevation you can go to Lake Titicaca.

One way is Lima-Arequipa-Colca Canyon-Puno (L. Titicaca)-Cusco -Lima

Another way is Lima-Cusco (go to SV)-Puno-Colca Canyon-Arequipa-Lima

You can fly between Lima and Cusco, Lima and Arequipa, and there may be a few flights between Lima and Juliaca, Cusco and Juliaca, Cusco and Arequipa, etc.

Idioteque

If we do a trip Peru only (still didn't buy the plane tickets!), we'll of course skip the flight to Juliaca and do the bus ride via Arequipa/Colca Canyon (which also seems pretty cool). But if I will combine it with Brazil, it's not easy to allow extra days so we will have to fly. We'll just have to hope the altitude doesn't hit us that bad. We'll go for "practice" to 2000+m this summer for a few days but that's nowhere the same altitude as Puno.

mlgb

If you do want to add Arequipa and Colca Canyon, each leg (Aqp to Chivay & Chivay to Puno takes about half a day). There are pool tours that leave Aqp at some ungodly hour to get them to condors by 9 am . In theory you would then leave on the 1 pm bus Chivay to Puno. It is well worth doing an overnight in Chivay and will help acclimatze for Puno.

Bear in mind that Juliaca is about an hour outside of Puno. I decided not to overnight on the lake islands. I did a brief visit to Uros, spent the night in Puno. The next day one of the tours via Isla del Sol to La Paz.

mlgb

BTW, and this of course is strictly personal, I have never regretted arriving by train and bus at MP, nor skipping the overnight on the lake! I have a feeling that your comfort loving husband might feel the same.

Peru ex-Inca Trail is not expensive, Brazil is!

I'd go back to Bolivia in a heart beat.

Idioteque

I also think he wouldn't mind skipping the overnight stay

For MP, I think he'll hate it at times but would like it overall. He used to hike a lot in highschool (part of a mountaineering group, they did trips almost every weekend), but having sedentary work for 10 years kind of makes you move less and like more comfy settings.

Indeed, Brazil is insanely expensive, with the quotes I get for 5 nights in Pantanal I can live a month in Asia with high luxury! Lol..

Idioteque

For Puno it would be cool if you could just start a tour (with overnight for example) at Juliaca. If you catch the first flight from Lima you wouldn't be so late in the airport. But the normal tours start at about 7 from the pier. So if you want to do the overnight stay, you need 3 nights.

Maybe they'll figure it out in the future that people require this (I'm sure there are more people that would like to avoid the third night in Puno).