donroja

I've been reading many of the topics here and many of them pertain to the situation I'm in. I've read great feedback, so I hope you can help me out. Thank you so much in advance!
I am headed to Europe September 14 for 30 days and need some help on a few things. I am 28, going with two friends and have a very rough intinerary. We are interested in historical/tourist landmarks, a little drinking along the way, and a lot of fun. We basically need a push in the right direction.

We fly out of LAX to London and have to stay in London for 3 nights while we wait for the third to arrive...

Our plan is this:
City/Days:
London, 3
Paris, 1 (just want to see the tower)
Amsterdam, 3
Prague, 3
Budapest, 3
Vienna, 3
Munich, 1 maybe 2 (oktoberfest only)
Venice or Florence depending on the consensus here, 3
Rome, 3
Ferry to Palermo, 1
Ferry to Athens, 3
Fly back to London

Please let me know what you think. We have round trip in and out of london , so there is no wiggle room there unfortunately. We are planning on purchasing the 10 day/ 2 months eurail pass, again let me know if you think it is worth it or not. Any advice is welcome. Our budget after plane ticket and Eurail pass is $5000-7000. Thank you so much in advance. Oh yeah, None of us have been to Europe, so if you think we are missing something of importance feel free.

janisj

Just one comment now -- but others will chime in. Even if you are only interested in skimming the surface of these cities (only the Eiffel Tower for example) you will have a lot less time in each place.

It takes most of a day every time you move. So you basically have about 10 full days just in transit

clausar

From Palermo to Athens you will need either to go to Bari, then ferry to Patras, and take a bus to Athens.....
OR fly Palermo-Rome-Athens ( there are no direct flights)
If you choose to go via Bari, calculate 2 days

Irishwhistler90

When you say "see" the Eiffel Tower, do you mean go up it as well? If that's the case, you should probably know that you can spend up to two hours waiting just to get up to the top! It might help if you were to give a more detailed list of what you want to see/do in each place, that way everyone can let you know whether or not what you want to do is achievable in the time you have to do it.

A_Guy_80

Agree with rest that you are spending lot of time travelling through Europe rather than enjoying it. I don’t know much about your interests (apart from historical/tourist landmarks and drinking a bit) but if I had luxury of 30 days in Europe and taste similar to yours (personally am more into scenery than history & prefer to stay put longer at a destination) then I would have divided them as follows:

1. 1 week in London & Paris (thanks to eurostar, you can club them together)
2. 1 week in Belgium, Holland & Germany (Amsterdam + Munich)
3. 1 week in Austria & Switzerland ( Vienna + Lauterbrunnen or Luzern)
4. 1 week in Italy (2 of the 3 – Rome/Venice/Florence)

As you see I will stick with Western Europe as that will be save you lot of long distance travel and then backtracking again. Trust me even with this itinerary you are still travelling every 3-4 days which lot of people will rightly tell you is quite hectic but guess you want to cover more ground and atleast your destinations will be closer to each other so you would lose less time travelling.

Next time when you have another 30 days, may be you could fly directly to Frankfurt or other East European destination and cover Prague-Budapest-Croatia-Greece & Turkey.

WomBatt

Foolish and wasteful, both in time and money. Less is more. I wish you well with all the time you have for drinking and fun on public transport.

Whose $?

A EurRail pass - almost certainly more waste - it is consistent that wherever whatever $ is used there is regular acceptance of everything a travel agent or the travel machinery suggests, at least you have the wit to ask. Read - http://tiny.cc/cy3y9 and this http://tiny.cc/b45ix but you will now, with a short time left, have few opportunities to save on train fares, lucky if you do.

jamikins

I think you are trying to fit way too much in, I would cut the list in half and enjoy the places you actually are. You will spend at least 1/2 day in transit every time you move, between checking out, getting to the train station/airport, waiting, transit, getting to hotel, checking in - thats a BIG chunk of time that many dont consider. You currently are wasting 10-11 days out of your 30 moving and not seeing anything.

There is absolutely no point in taking the ferry to Palermo for 1 day - you will see next to nothing and spend HOURS on the ferry. I dont think you can take a ferry to Athens from Palermo so you are going to add significant travel time and possibly days trying to get between the two cities.

Have you got reservations for Oktoberfest? If not you may want to look and see if you can even find something near it in your budget - our friends book their hotels in Jan/Feb so that might not be a realistic option.

So I would drop Palermo and Greece, Prague Budapest and Vienna and focus on London, Amsterdam, Paris and Italy. Or focus on London, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Budapest and Vienna.

I think A_Guy_80 has a great suggestion for itinerary. Remember, you are young and will be back - dont make the mistake most first timers make trying to cram in everything in Europe into a first trip - you will be back!

Enjoy your planning!

adrienne

Wow! Have you looked at any of the travel times? Amsterdam to Prague is 11 to 12 hours plus travel time to/from train stations so that's a 14 hour day. Prague to Budapest is about 7 hours. You're taking an overnight ferry to Palermo just for 1 day? And then doing a long ferry ride to Athens? Did you know that Rome is not a port city and that the port is 1 to 1.5 hours from Rome?

Did you know that a rail pass does not include seat reservations and that the number of seats for pass holders is very limited and you may have to buy additional tickets?

Have you booked any hotels? Did you know that September is peak season in Paris?

I hope you don't mean that your budget is $7,000 for all of you? With all this moving around your budget needs to be per person.

The most important thing you're missing is a good plan. If you follow your current plan your trip will be lots of train stations and waiting around time but at least you can drink on the trains.

bilboburgler

Guys, it may be dull but you are going to get so bored of those stations and trains. I suggest the following

City/Days:
London, 3
Paris, 3 (just want to see the tower), my goodness (this is not the word I first thoiught of) a city with some of sexiest women and you want to see a bit of old steel..
Amsterdam, 3 ditto
Prague, 3 (I might even cut this and replace with Berlin, beer and wine here is not so good)
Budapest, 3 (ditto) (I love this city but you are only 28 not 48) (still if gay or hetrosexual cruising in spas is your thing it might be good for a 28 year old)
Vienna, 3 (cake and sausage)
Munich, 0 (fat Bavarians drinking, have you not seen the Simpsons?)
Venice or Florence depending on the consensus here, 3 decisions decisions..
Greece 0 (all the good bits are in London or Berlin dude)
Rome, 3
Fly back to London

This is still hurried but more doable

lindy27

My main advice is to skip Greece. It is expensive and a pain to get there for only 4 days, which is really 2.5 after moving around all the time.

I hope you have a hotel booked in Munich, because if not, they are pretty much sold out. I looked about 4 months ago and there were a few left but they were all $300+ per night for a double.

I also hope that budget is per person, not the whole group. That ends up being 160 euro per day assuming the $7000 budget. Which is far too low for 3 people, but probably a little high for 1 person. Consider at least 20 euro a person for a hostel bed, probably more. Would be even more for triple rooms.

LSky

I think you're going to come home and tell people, "I've been to Europe!" But with this schedule, you're bodies will be the only thing that has been to Europe. Going to Paris for one day to see the ET? You'll have never been to Paris.

Slow down and enjoy. Unless you just want to say that you've been.

StCirq

If you're doing a thesis on train stations this itinerary works beautifully. If the aim is a fun vacation, it's terrible. An entire third of your trip will be spent on transport, some of which I don't even think is possible (Athens to Palermo).

I don't even know where to begin with "all I want to do is see the tower."

PalenQ

We are planning on purchasing the 10 day/ 2 months eurail pass, again let me know if you think it is worth it or>

IMO for your wide ranging itinerary that pass is a great deal and do not forget that it is in first class and in my decades of train travel in Europe I come away with saying for the average tourist first class has immense benefits over second class - lots more room for luggage and in most of your countries you can just hop on any train anytime+ - those type of tickets can be ridiculously expensive - fully flexible ones and in first class I have rarely seen first class cars that do not have empty seats - always in fact IME - not so in 2nd class - so the pass if first class if you compare to 2nd class fares IMO it is comparing apples to oranges.

that your pass will pay for the ferry to Greece is a great benefit as well and you sleep overnight on the ferry so save a hotel cost. Ditto for overnight trains in Europe you could take - like between Rome and Palermo rather than taking a ferry not ocvered by railpasses I believe as you indicate.

For lots of great info on European trains and passes and alternatives like cheap flights - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; wwwricksteves.com.

When I was your age I had a railpass and did about the exact same journey in about the same time - yeh only in Greece for a few days but I found the overnight ferry there fun (lots and lots of young Europeans onboard and in the onboard discos, etc) - keep Greece in your plans IMO.

nytraveler

Way too many places in too little time. You hae put together a lengthy tour of the train tations of europe. After you deal with finding your lodgings (or if you haven;t reserved in advance spend hours loking for some) and checking in - it wil almst be time to check out again.

Recognize you are young and high energy - but much of the point of going to europ is to understand differnt cultures, people and ways of life. You can;t do this in 12 hours by climbing the Eiffel Tower and sitting in a bar. (By the way, basic wine and beer are reasonable, mixed drinks or hard liquor are outrageously expensive in europe.)

I would put in 4 or 5 nights for larger cities and 3 nights for smaller ones. Cut out at least half of your destiations and you may begin to have a small feel fr what europe is like. (My first trip was when I was 19, My boorfirend and I did parts of 5 countries - in 6 weeks - and still missed a lot.)

clausar

<< My main advice is to skip Greece. It is expensive >>

Greece is not expensive.... it offers something for everyone. so it can be cheap or expensive according to your budget !!!!
I could name many countries or cities that are way more expensive from Greece.

easytraveler

Since this is the end of August and you're leaving on September 14 and have only a "rough itinerary", this indicates that you haven't put much thought into planning your trip.

As the others have said, you are going to spend half your time just getting from one place to another without the time to really enjoy a destination once you get there. One way to save on time is to go from destination to destination by night sleeper train. This will, however, involve a bit of planning on your part and a bit of prepurchasing to ensure that you will even have a berth to sleep on.

We all have our personal preferences, but why even go to Paris at all for only one day? And one day in Munich just for the oktoberfest - you'll need at least three days to get to the MAJOR beer gardens and then you'll need to have another three days to crawl out from under the table after having downed endless 1L glasses of beer during the first three days. I'd skip London, Amsterdam, and the whole of that south Europe portion, beginning with Rome.

As someone has already said: less is more. I'd cut down on viewing the interior of trains and train stations and opt to see more of the destination cities.

If you can't find lodging in Munich (and good luck on that one so late in the year!), there is always the main train station in Munich. Stick your luggage in a locker for safekeeping, then go to the waiting room. You can sleep in the waiting room, just make sure you're sleeping sitting up. If you lie down, the police will come and wake you up and kick you out of the waiting room. That room is for waiting, not for sleeping.

donroja

Thanks for all your replies, good and bad, as they were all helpful. We do indeed have a place to stay in Munich, so lodging won't be a problem. we have up to 7000us each, not total for this trip, and more if need be. We are backpacking, so if we get to a place we really enjoy, we stay longer. That is the reason for the rough itinerary, not for lack of planning. We are all firemen and very dynamic, often taking situations as they come. Thank you again for all your help.

updated intinerary:
City/Days
London, 4
Paris, 4
Amsterdam, 3
Berlin, 3
Prague, 3
Munich, 2
Venice/Florence, 4 (still not sure which one)
Rome, 4

Does this sound a little better? Are we getting closer? Any help is appreciated...

christycruz

Your itinerary is looking better, and I don't mean to complicate things, but is there a reason you aren't going to Barcelona? I would rather go there with buddies in my 20's than Prague, Venice or Florence.

michele_d

This sounds waaaaay better. You will have a much more enjoyable time now that you have toned it back a bit. Less travel, more time to enjoy and relax.

If you are still undecided about Venice/Florence you can stay two days in each. They are really close. Hop on an early train from Venice and you will have almost two days for each.

$7000 is loads of money for your plans. We stayed 97 days for two people for $25,000. That's about $128 per person per day. You will have nearly double that. We stayed in budget accommodations and not hostels and picnicked a lot.

Sounds like a great trip. Have fun.

lindy27

I like your new itinerary. I think switching out Berlin for Vienna was a good idea for logistics and probably interests. There is a night train from Amsterdam to Berlin if you want to save some time. I also believe there is one from Munich to Florence.

I do think 4 days in Venice/Florence might be too much. Consider adding one of those days to Berlin. We really liked Berlin and found it great for 20 somethings.

If you want a good introduction to any of the cities, these "free" walking tours are in a lot of the cities you are going to and cater to 20 somethings http://www.neweuropetours.eu/ We really enjoyed them. I also know they have a beer tour in Munich and Prague for like 12 euros. We have been on 3 of the tours, and one of the beer tours and really enjoyed them.