swandav2000

Hallo All,

Can anyone help me with French roads?? I have never driven in France – I normally haunt Paris. Though I have spent time in Arles, Cannes, and Beaulieu Sur Mer, I used public transportation or small day tours to see stuff. I have driven in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, particularly since I’ve had more and more trouble walking longer distances.


My question/confusion is that all these roads are called “D” roads, and these D roads can have a 2-number designation, a 3-number designation, or a 4-number designation, with nothing to let you know if one is wider or multi-lane. For instance, D5 and D20 and D709 all seem to be the same size road, a fat yellow. Then there’s the D708, which is a fat red. And then there are D100 and D41, which are just white lines. Most of the roads look like a spider-web maze of small, slow-going 2-lane roads. (These are just examples I pulled off of the map in front of me – I don’t want information on these specific roads).


Background: I will be in the Gironde, Dordogne, & Lot Departments in April. My itinerary is: flying into Toulouse from Munich, driving to St Emilion and Aubeterre-sur-Dronne to see the monolithic churches, then Sarlat, Rocamadour, Figeac, and St Cirq Lapopie, and returning to Toulouse Airport in 10 nights. I have Michelin maps 324, 329, 337, & 338.


I’ll be using GPS of course. But I wanted to have a basic understanding of the routes & roads I’ll need before I start … I am terrible with directions, and I’m a solo traveller. So, can anyone help me to understand the system? Is there a system? Are those small roads pretty speedy?

Thanks very much for your help & insights!!

s

1994

Not sure how helpful this will be. We now live in the Dordogne very close to the border with the Correze. All the D roads can vary in size. Some can be of a very good size with plenty of tractor trailer trucks traveling on them with no real difficulty. These tend to show on Google maps in the color yellow. However, even those can vary in size.

The white roads tend to be much smaller. Some may even prove difficult to meet oncoming traffic on. In this region, the white roads can be VERY curvy and hilly/cliffy, so you need to really know your vehicle in order to meet traffic on these roads. Most also do not have guard rails protecting you from going off the road. You can normally avoid these roads if you want to by google driving them to get a feel for what they're like. Some can be a bit nerve racking for some drivers, especially in unknown territory.

AnselmAdorne

swandav2000, D signifies a départmentale road. They are locally maintained and the numbers can be repeated in other departments. For example, there could be a D105 near Avignon and another D105 near Lille. The other designation on Michelin maps are E for route européan, A for autoroute, and N for route nationale.

Michelin's map key indicates a hierarchy of roads: red signifies a "route de liaison internationale ou nationale," while yellow is a "route de liaison interrégional ou de dégagement." From my experience, I found red roads to be busier than yellow roads. They are also likely to be wider.

White roads are truly local, often quite narrow. Michelin distinguishes between paved and unpaved ("revêtue" and "non-revêtue"): paved have a solid black borders, while unpaved have dashed black lines.

One other thing you will notice on their maps: some roads, whether red or yellow, have what looks like a green shadow running alongside. This indicates a road which Michelin feels is particularly scenic.

I have always found Michelin maps amazing in their detail. All of the symbols are explained in the key.

kerouac

Many of the former national highways (N roads) became D roads simply because an autoroute was built through the area and maintenance of the former "nationale" was turned over to the department by the national government. So a lot of the D roads are really quite big highways without being limited access highways (autoroutes). This is probably true in most countries, but the incidence of traffic deaths is twice as high on departmental roads as on national highways.

In my own observation, there is a lot less speed control by the gendarmerie on D roads than N roads. On top of that, it is mostly locals on the D roads on routes that they know by heart so they take insane risks on blind curves and dangerous areas with a lower speed limit. I often enjoy driving on the D roads (as long as I am not stuck behind a tractor), but I am much more vigilant because the other drivers are not.

You will also see big differences not just in the maintenance but also in the pavement of the D roads when you pass into a different department. It is a good lesson in the different types of asphalt and you won't like some of them.

1994

I could not agree more with your observation, spot on.

AnselmAdorne

I still remember the young woman who passed me like a bat out of hell on a blind uphill curve in Auvergne. And that was some years ago.

shelemm

If you are at your computer and want to see what a specific road looks like (for advance planning), you can view roads on Google Maps. Just click and drag the 'liitle yellow man' found on the lower right corner of your screen and plop him down on any road where a blue line has now appeared. Once he is plopped down, you will get a street level view of the road.

There are not many roads that are scary, but there are many curvy roads that are very scenic and very slow.

1994

I've heard many people say that. I have to disagree. There were many roads in the part of France I used to live in where two cars could not meet. Someone would have to pull off (often on cliffy roads where there is no space to pull off) or back up - on curvy narrow roadways that the tourist driver does not know. I've seen far too many really scary moments on these roads. Camping cars on these roads were a horror.

Where I currently live, it is FAR FAR FAR more prevalent. Try driving these TINY, curvy D roads with no guard rails and no lights after dark, while meeting large local vehicles (such as vans and trucks) that take up the ENTIRE road. Not pleasant and most definitely can be down right scary.

Not trying to discourage anyone, just suggesting you be prepared for anything and yes, google walk the roads if you are concerned.

kerouac

It is interesting to note that in many areas, particularly on autoroutes, the lighting has been turned off, and this was betore the energy crisis. It was discovered, at first accidentally when a large portion in the outer suburbs of Paris was out of order for about a month, and then with experimental testing, that there are far fewer accidents on unlighted roads than ones that are brightly lit (sorry, Belgium) simply because drivers become a lot more careful.

swandav2000

oh gosh. Oh my.

I am very glad I asked this question! And I thank you so much for your replies!

1994 -- thank you so much for the detailed information on the conditions of the white roads! That is a very, very good suggestion to go through the routes with a google preview! Very helpful!

AnselmAdome -- thank you so much for explaining the designation and the information on the red & yellow roads and how to identify paved & unpaved roads. Yes, I did see the green scenic routes ... but I'll be alone, and I don't think I'll be looking at the scenery... maybe glancing at it now & again, lol.

kerouac -- wow. yikes. That is scary. I take your note about being vigilant!

shelemm -- thanks for confirming the method to preview each drive. I do not mind slow roads, lol!

And thanks for your final note, 1994! Yes, I am so glad I asked, so that I will be forewarned. I am a confident but careful driver. I took a 9 1/2 year hiatus from driving, and when I did get a car again, I only put 7,000 km on it in 5 years.

I got the routing for my trips from Viamichelin, and highlighted those routes on the map portions that I copied. Now I will do more research on those white roads. Thankfully, none of the routes are very long (from Viamichelin):

Toulouse airport to St Emilion, 2h40.
St Emilion to Aubeterre-sur-Dronne, 1h15, then to Sarlat, 2h.
Sarlat to Rocamadour, 1h, then to Figeac, 0h45
Figeac to St Cirq, 1h15, then to Toulouse Airport,1h30.

So, no 6-hour or so journeys.

Thanks again for your great help!! I will be relaxed & vigilant

s

bilboburgler

Really interesting point

kerouac

It can be noted that in many cases, the former N roads became D roads just by adding a 9 in front of the former number.. For example an N43 may have become a D943..

tomboy

1. I found driving in southern France very pleasant, mellow. Mostly unchallenging, except on hairy mountain curves which are NOT where you're going. Shelemm had good advice above, as did others
2. If you copy the following link, paste it into Google, and then adjust the search terms, you may even find a video of the route from X to Y that you're inquiring about. That way, you can see it in advance, from the comfort of your home. And speed it up, if you wish.
https://www.google.com/search?q=VIDE...hrome&ie=UTF-8
3. The ONLY time I had trepidations in France was on a winding road near the Gorge du Verdon in the pre-Alps (NOT near where you'll be), where some bicyclists passed me.
4. Before you leave the rental office, be sure you know how to have the GPS speak to you in English.

swandav2000

Ah, thanks tomboy, for another resource to do the video preview of the routes! I appreciate it! I do know that I won't be in the south or pre-Alps . I live in Germany and have some experience (sadly) changing the language on cell phones, tablets, computers, and GPS. Lol, sometimes I have to change the GPS language after I take my car to the shop, if they dis-connected the battery. I have a little French, too, left over from studying it in college, but it's been nearly wiped from my brain by the German I'm still struggling with. I have seen Swiss folks switch between German, French, & English without pause, while I stand in open-mouthed awe.... ah gee...

s

kerouac

Living in Europe, you have certainly learned not to pay attention to the GPS when the road signs disagree with it. The GPS will try to send you down farm tracks just to cut 200 meters off the itinerary even when there is a visible main road just ahead.

1994

No kidding ! And my husband always INSISTS we follow the GPS route. I am almost always the one driving, while he manages the GPS, so I am the one stuck driving on a road the size of a pencil with nearly no paving.

twk

Use Google Maps to see what routing they suggest, then check it against your map to make sure that it looks logical. I then like to look at the street view on Google Maps for sections of the drive just to get an idea of road quality and what the scenery looks like. For example, last year, I was making a trip from Port-en-Bessin on the Calvados coast to Mont Saint Michel, via Carentan. I wanted to get some views of MSM from the opposite side of the bay, and Google Maps (and street view) allowed me to determine what I needed to use as way points in order to get to the scenic points. It also allowed me to determine that some stretches of road very close to the coast would provide no view at all thanks to houses, walls, and other obstructions.



When you are doing your planning with Micheline maps, you may want to check out the areas that they have highlighted in green on Google Maps street view in order to see if such scenic drives are worth a detour.
​​​​​​​
I also used my Garmin GPS as my primary direction guidance (I do overkill by also having a GPS app on my phone through Apple Car Play, when available) because I could pre-plan my routes before going over for the trip. This way, I could see what routing the GPS would suggest, check it against paper maps and Google Maps on my computer, and enter intermediate way points in order to avoid tiny roads, uninteresting towns, and the like.

shelemm

Just to let the OP know, In all my travels in France (and elsewhere) have never had to drive on a curvy mountainous road where you might drive off a cliff ... at night. I believe the OP can easily avoid that situation.

kerouac

Oh, I've been on those. They definitely get your heart pumping. And when you have a passenger on the cliff side, they make it even worse.

1994

Thank you ! You have no idea how many times I am told there are no scary roads in rural France.