Jenny755

Hello fellow travelers,
We are a recently retired couple in our sixties traveling with another family member (also a Senior) and are ready to get back and see our Bucket list ! With the pandemic, retirement obviously was not what we expected but at this point, ready or not here we come!
Our goal is to spend 5-7 nights in Switzerland ( April 27th- May 3rd, 2022 ) and will be coming from Munich after a river cruise. We have visited Switzerland before ( Lucerne, Lauterbrunnen, Basel) and this time want to concentrate in visiting the Engadin region and specifically take the Bernina Express. We love hiking (short ones) and visiting charming small towns- we prefer to avoid cities but do love history and art. We want to avoid long train rides to get from one place to the other and are willing to break up the trip as long as we do not find ourselves with too many one night stops. I have a few questions about our general itinerary and logistical issues that I am sure your expert opinions will answer.

General Itinerary:
Munich to upper Engadin (Pontresina, Sils Maria, or other suggestions)- 3 nights
Question- the train ride from Munich to this area is about 7 hrs.- quite long- is there a good stop to break it up

Take the BE from Tirano (or Pontresina/St. Moritz) to Chur- 1 night in Chur or instead a 1 or 2 night stay in Guarda or surroundings ( sounds like a beautiful village). However, if we do the latter I'm concerned with transportation back to Chur to catch the train to Zurich or Geneva?
Since we will be traveling in early May I am also concerned that this South to North route ends late in the afternoon and it will be dark ( I saw only one itinerary and it is from 2:30-6:30p.m. Tirano-Chur) Does this matter since this end of the route near Chur may not be as scenic? or will we be missing part of the experience. We want to do this South-North option so we don't have to travel back since ultimately we need to end in Zurich (or Geneva). We do want to take the BE for this portion- are looking forward to the panoramic sightseeing.

Travel back to Zurich or even Geneva - 1 night
Fly out next day.
We want to be in the city from which we will be flying out so we can have our Covid tests and be ready to depart the next day
Geneva seems to be more scenic but longer to get there, there seems to be a faster train to Zurich so could be a better option. The city we fly out of does not matter - we are using miles

We can literally reverse the trip if someone has a better option but my research showed this to be the most efficient use of train travel... but we are open to suggestions from the experts.
Look forward to your comments
Jenny

dreamon

How do you plan to get to Tirano? One possibility would be Munich - Merano - Guarda - Tirano - Sils Maria (etc) - Zurich. If you're retired, I would try to extend your time in Switzerland so it's not so rushed (you're packing an awful lot into a short timeframe). Check bahn.de and sbb.ch for timetables. Do you want to take the train services with the panoramic windows or the regular train which follows the same route? They each have their own advantages, in my view.

Jenny755

Thanks dreamon for your response. We do want to take the train with the panoramic windows. I see your itinerary line up and like the idea that Merano is only 3:45 hrs from Munich. However, that route seems to have us going north to Guarda and then south to Tirano and then Sils only to return back up to Zurich?

Jenny755

Forgot to say that we plan to travel all by train

dreamon

Whichever way you go, travelling from Munich to Tirano is lengthy. And then heading from Tirano to Zurich is also a longish journey. How did you originally plan to get to Tirano?

I only included Guarda because you expressed interest in it. You could visit when heading north to Zurich but I'm not sure that's any more convenient, although I see that Guarda to Zurich is only 2.5hrs.

Actually, Munich to Guarda is about 5hrs. You could then travel to Sils Maria and that area. Then to Tirano. Then to Zurich on the Bernina Express. As you can see, there are multiple options and it's a question of just playing around with the timetables. You should check my times.

By the way, I assume bus is okay as well as train?

Jenny755

OK- I will continue looking at the time tables and see what makes more sense
I do have a question on transfers- some of the time changes are very short 5 minutes even? I'm concerned that just getting off the train with luggage and getting our bearings to the next platform that is not possible? How much time do you suggest should we allow for transferring from one platform to another?

kleeblatt

Platform transfer depends on the size of the train station. Smaller train stations only require 4-5 minute transfers. With a larger station such as Zürich, you may need 8-10 minutes

swandav2000

Hi Jenny755,

On the Deutsch Bahn site (www.bahn.com), you can adjust the time of each connection. Since trains can be 10 minutes late, and since I don't really enjoy racing through train stations and up & down stairs, I usually input a 20-minute minimum connection time. I've never done it, but I'm sure you can do the same thing at the Swiss rail site, www.sbb.ch. Longer is never a problem, as then I can enjoy some coffee, do some world-class people-watching.

I don't think you need to make tangled routings to get to Tirano to enjoy the Bernina Express. I've taken that ride 3x, and I've always done it as a day-trip, round-trip from a town in the Engadin (Zuoz once, St Moritz once). I usually go as far as Poschiavo, which is a gorgeous little town with Italian influences, which is about 2h. You may want to go as far as Lake Poschiavo, but I don't think you need to go as far as Tirano. I like taking the 2h trip, then strolling, photographing, eating, then returning.

Have fun as you plan!

s

kleeblatt

I agree. The ride to Poschiavo with an afternoon exploring the village and the ride back to Pontresina make for a splendid day.

Jenny755

Great to hear the options! Just to confirm,, if we start in Chur and only only go as far as Poschiavo Lake we will not be missing out on any major scenic sites- correct? Also, we do want to ride the panoramic train which I thought has limited stops?
Here is the general itinerary after spending hours on train time tables
Munich to Bern - 3nights
Bern-Chur- 1 night
Arrive Chur and overnight to take BE following day
Sils Maria or Pontresina- 3 - 4 nights (I will look at Zuoz as Kleblatt has done)
hike and explore
Sils - Zurich - overnight Zurich to catch flight back home

Thank you all
J

swandav2000

Hi again,

I've only taken the designated "Bernina Express" twice, I think, one way on 2 of my trips. The regular route goes over the same tracks, with the same stops. I think the only difference in the trains is the size of the windows, and that your fellow travellers on the designated tourist train will be more awe-struck and more excited and will take more photos. Otherwise, they are the same.

I don't think there is a large town at Poschiavo Lake. The town I was describing is just Poschiavo, about 1 or 2 shops before the lake. But you'd have enough time to see them both, probably.

The major scenic sight is Alp Grüm, the highest point on the route. It is stunning to see the landscape changing from forrested Alpine of the Engadin, to stark glacial at Alp Grüm, then amazingly lush and green during the descent into the Poschiavo valley.

Have fun!

s

kleeblatt

Celerina might also be a good option to use as a homebase in the Engadin. It's all beautiful.

Ingo

I usually agree with swandav (and kleeblatt), but in this special case I think it makes sense to go as far as Tirano. Firstly, if not you would miss the circular viadukt at Brusio. Secondly, you plan to travel in spring time when the difference between the St. Moritz region, Bernina pass, Poschiavo and Tirano is very remarkable concerning progress vegetation and weather. You will probably see a few remaining snow relics in the villages around St. Moritz, tons of snow at Bernina pass, the begin of spring in Poschiavo but the begin of summer in Tirano. And all that in one day!

I would not ride the Express trains, the regional trains are IMO fine enough. And you will meet locals in those trains, not only tourists, in addition to the flexibility that it gives you with the many stops (Poschiavo is a great town for one or two hours minimum.)

Another idea - what about staying in Tirano instead of the Upper Engadine around St. Moritz? Or Poschiavo? At this time of year (shoulder season between skiing and hiking) the Upper Engadine is not very attractive for a stay - muddy, rather brown-ish than green, maybe wet snow. An interesting, scenic journey would be via Innsbruck - Landeck - Scuol, dep. Munich 7:41 with five changes and arrival in Tirano 4:23 pm.

Jenny755

First, thank you for the information on changing the transfer times- that was priceless so we are not rushed and stressed!
We have decided that we do want the panoramic train and will ride it one way to Tirano- don't want to miss anything as you all have pointed out. We then can take the regular train back on the same day stopping at Poschiavo which sounds lovely and continue to our destination in the Engadine- at this point either Sils, Pontresina or ???
Now Ingo- you have thrown a curve in our plans - what do you mean the Engadine will not be pretty at this time (Oh No!) We prefer not to stay in Tirano- have been to Italy and want more of a Swiss atmosphere than Italian- does that make sense ? Also, Tirano just doesn't sound as charming and it puts me further south for our return trip to Zurich.
Thoughts...

Ingo

Pontresina or Samedan would be logical choices for staying overnight after the Bernina Express. Pontresina village is quite a bit uphill from the railway station, Samedan has hotels near the station - more convenient.

If you have seen a ski resort shortly after the skiing season ended and the snow was just gone - then you know what to expect. End of April is between seasons, as I wrote earlier. No green pastures, mountains (at least on northern slopes) still snow covered. Can have its charm when the sun shines, but don't bet on nice weather. I've been there around that time (around 20th April and also first weekend of May) and it was once rainy, foggy, ugly and the other time slightly nicer. I am reluctant anyway to plan that far ahead for scenic train rides on a fix day - you never know about the weather. You might be stuck in clouds, rain, and see nothing at all. Or have gorgeous weather with blue sky, white sparkling snow capped mountains ... you just don't know.

As for Swiss vs. Italian atmosphere - yes, makes sense. But architecture wise the villages in the Engadine are quite similar to Italian ones. Tirano is not that much different from Poschiavo, only that the latter has the Swiss cleanliness and efficiency.

neckervd

Some alternative suggestions:

Munich dp by train 9,41 - Landeck ar 12.31, change at Kufstein. Dining car Kufstein (dp 11.09) - Landeck
Landeck dp by bus 12.58 - Scuol (Engadin Valley) ar 14.27. Scuol is a charming Engadin village, close to Guarda. Trains from Scuol to Pontresian/St. Moritz (1 hr 20 min journey) every hr.
or
Munich dp by train 8.55 - Chur ar 12.48, change at St. Margrethen. Luggage into the lockers, lunch in he historic city center of Chur
Chur dp 14.34 by panoramic train Glacier Express to St. Moritz ar 16.37.

Bernina Express thing:
Pontresina dp 10.22 by panoramic Bernina Express train to Tirano ar 12.49. Lunch at Tirano. Tirano dp 14.30 by Bernina Express bus via Lake Como and Lake Lugano to Lugano ar 17.30. Enjoy Lugano and surroundings.
Lugano - Milan Malpensa airport Terminal 1: direct trains every hr, 1 1/2 hrs ride
Lugano - Zurich airport: trains every hr, change at Zurich main station, 2 hrs 10 min journey

Hambagahle

Putting things a little into perspective - end April/early May in the Engadin (as in most winter sports areas) most hotels/shops/restaurants will be closed. Poschiavo is not in the Engadin and it is 900m lower so not at all a winter sports place and everything will be open. And at that time of the year at that altitude - also in "bloom" - in fact lovely.

Ingo said it is worth going on to Tirano so you can travel over the Brosio viaduct and I totally agree. it is far more remarkable than the Landwasser (unless you are viewing that from the valley below!). Tirano itself though is "without redeeming social importance..:" in other words not even an interesting Italian small town aside from, in Spring, the rushing waters of the Adda river which are a lovely sight. The Swiss station in Tirano is on the main station square and there are several OK restaurants around the square as well as a decent gelateria. (I liked that a lot!)

All (or almost all) of the trains running on this route have panoramic windows and some commentary. The Bernina Express itself has a slightly better commentary (but nowhere near as good as the Glacier Express). And since the BE is normally coupled to a regular train you won't save any time by taking that either...Yet I think it is worthwhile taking it TO Tirano and then just catching the next train back (trains run every hour on this line).

Maybe stop off at Poschiavo and visit the town. It is really lovely and has lots of towers built by prosperous merchants in the late middle ages... And a short walk from the station. Just watch the timing for the onward train up to the Engadin!

for the end of your trip - if you fly from ZRH that makes a lot of sense. You will be roughly 3.5hours from the ZRH airport if you stay in Samedan. Geneva - the easiest way to get there would be on the Glacier Express from St Moritz or Samedan to Brig and then connect to Geneva but you are looking at an almost 9 hour train ride. Unless you plan to stop somewhere like Montreux (And Swandav can tell you lots about that!) then don't bother and just fly from ZRH:

IF you decide for the Bernina Express remember to book your seat well in advance. You can do this 90 days out. If coming from the north then perhaps getting a Saver Day Pass from the SBB might save some money. From Italy to the Engadin - probably not. SDP goes on sale 60 days out and price rises from then on in. A Half Fare care doesn't get you a lot of benefits in the Engadin - aside from on the trains and the buses. So maybe just the SDP and then point to point tickets for the rest.

Jenny755

Thanks Ingo for such a candid description, this is important and helps manage our expectations and thanks Hambagahle to further clarify it. We can't change our dates so I'm hopeful we will still be awe struck having nothing else except pictures to compare it to
The suggestions above ( Hambagahle, Neckervd, and Ingo) has re-directed us to consider the more southern side like Lugano and Bellinzona (which was also on our list at some point and several of you have suggested it). From a logistic standpoint we are looking to minimize the hassle of luggage and long train rides so with this in mind I now have the following- we will now be coming from Innsbruck which gives us more direct routes with less train changes:

Innsbruck-Bellinzona- 3 nts
Visit Bellinzona and surrounding Locarno

Bellinzona-Chur-1 nt
Take BE to Tirano and return on regular train to either Poschiavo (which sounds lovely as you have stated) or Sils Maria

Poschiavo or (Sils Maria )- 3 nts
Hike surrounding area

Sils Maria-Zurich 1 nt
Flight back home

I would love your thoughts but in particular have two questions:
Thinking of sending the luggage from Chur station to our hotel destination in Poschiavo or Sils Maria (whichever we pick) so that we are more mobile. I have read this service is reasonable and safe- any comments?
Due to the time of year I get the feeling that Poschiavo may be a better choice to explore and stay for 3 nights- if so any hotel recommendations?

Again, I can't thank you all enough for your input- every little comment and suggestion I have taken into consideration and has helped develop our stay in Switzerland !!!

Look forward to your comments

kleeblatt

I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood Neckervd's suggestion. Your itinerary down from Munich - Locarno - Chur doesn't make sense.

1) Use Rom2rio to see journey possibilities from destination to destination.
2) Go from Münich to Chur to Pontresina. It's about a 6-7 hour trip with only 3 changes. Of course, you can stay in Chur and explore the town for a night. It's quite interesting.
3) Stay in Pontresina for best train connections. Explore the area from there. Do a day trip to Tirano
4) Or to complete your trip, take the long Bernina Express as Neckervd carefully explained as above.

Do not stay in Bellinzona when you go to the Tessin. Locarno or Lugano is much better. My favourite is Locarno or Ascona but all three are interesting. The train ride from Lugano to Zürich is very easy and quick.

Jenny755

Ok- I'm confused and please help clarify what exactly doesn't make sense?
I have used sbb.ch train schedule and bahn.com for the above routing. I understand the proposed route of Munich to Chur, spend the night and then take BE all the way to Tirano ( we want to do this to experience at one go the whole scenic route) and then use regular trains back to Sils Maria or Poschiavo to spend 3 nights- all that works. The glitch for me was the continuation of the trip to Bellinzona (or Locarno as you suggested). I would have to take the train back down again to Tirano from whichever village we chose ( back tracking) , then a 3 hr. bus ride to Lugano ( lugging luggage and back tracking does not sound pleasant) The only way around this, I found, was to start in Bellinzona to Chur - there was a 2:19 train ride and no changes- and continue the trip from that point south.
I do like the easy train ride from Lugano area to Zurich and looked at that option as Neckervd suggested, but got stumped as described above. If we stay in Sils Maria there are easier connections to Zurich too- about 3.5 hrs. and few changes. If we choose Poschiavo that option does pose a longer a train ride back to Zurich.
If I can resolve how to get to the Tessin area in an easier way besides the bus that would be great.
Not sure if this helps explain my logic but am open to your suggestions.