jenn65

Hello- looking for some help planning a route in Italy. This is our 2nd trip and we don’t want to do Florence or Rome again. We really want to see Lake Como, Siena and the Chianti region of Tuscany. All this via train or private driver. Looking for help with how to put this together, where to fly in/out. And also suggestions for the stay in Chianti. Our trip will be around 14 to 16 days next spring including our travel. Thank you!

Jean

Exploring Lake Como is easy without a car. Connecting it with the rest of your itinerary is not so easy without a car.

From the Malpensa Airport (Milan), you can train to either Varenna-Esino (via Milan) or the town of Como (via Saronno) and taxi or ferry to your Lake Como hotel. You could also hire a driver to take you from Malpensa directly to your hotel.

Siena has a train station, so you can get there by train. But taking a train from Lake Como to Siena involves 5-6+ hours and multiple connections. If you're not staying in either Varenna or Como, the entire journey will take closer to 6-7 hours because you'd have to get to one of those towns as the first step. If you hired a driver to take you from Lake Como to the Milan train station, you would eliminate a couple of the train connections, but the overall journey will still be close to 5 hours. There is also Flix Bus service between Milan and Siena, but I have no experience with it or know anything about frequency, duration, etc. Or you could have the driver take you from Lake Como to your Chianti hotel. Still about 5 hours.

Siena is a bus service hub for the immediate area, but schedules are structured to serve mostly commuting/working locals and not particularly tourists. You can do a little sightseeing from Siena by bus, but you'd have to research what possible day trips you could make at the time of year of your trip. Because of Covid, I doubt the current schedules would be much help in planning. Chianti has no train station and spotty bus service. You'd have to research the cost of a private driver for multiple days. Many here have used Luca at Hills and Roads. I hope his company survives the pandemic.

Hills and Roads | Tours and Trasfers in Tuscany

There is bus service between Siena and both the Pisa and Florence airports, but the schedules may not work well with your flight(s).

BritishCaicos

Are you sure you want to stay in Chianti?

It's very green with steep hills and the views are obscured in many places. The area to the South is the Crete Senesi and Val D'Orcia with wheat fields, huge vistas and Cypress trees. The wine is also better in Montalcino.

neckervd

Como is 1 1/2 hrs by train from Milano Malpensa airport and 2 3/4 hrs by train from Zurich airport.
There are hydrofoils from Como to Menaggio, Bellagio or Varenna (about 1 hr ride).
The regional train ride from Siena to Rome Fiumicino airport lasts 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hrs, up to Pisa airport it's only 2 hrs

TDudette

Hi jenn65 and welcome.

Have you considered Umbria? Here's my report from our Puglia based trip: Perugia and Rome by train and bus

Another trip included Lake Como (Bellagio): Turin, Spoleto, Bologna and Bellagio TR

Hope these give you ideas and that you will report about your trip.

yorkshire

Is it okay if I ask you why no driving? Knowing if that is 100% ruled out will help. I know the lakes are not problem without a car, nor is Siena, but for rural Tuscany... you already know.
First, I would compare round trip Milan versus into Milan and out of Pisa or Florence (or vice versa). The distance is not so much that either would be overwhelmingly preferred, just see how the price and schedule difference works out first.

jenn65

Thank you for the replies. We are choosing not to drive simply to not have that stress on anyone in our party of 5. 5 people would need a large vehicle. We would be happy to use private drivers for routes that don’t have train stations. If we can locate a good spot to stay a couple of nights in Tuscany I’m sure we can find a tour or two for some wineries or hill towns.
I think my biggest issues are where to stay in the Tuscan countryside - and getting from Siena to Milan for our stay at Lake Como.

yorkshire

Okay, thanks! Makes sense--I have found that sometimes people just need reassurance, and others just don't drive (like me--but I have a driving partner), hence the question. No way around that long travel day of Milan - Siena. I'd look at Lago di Bolsena in Lazio instead, but if you have your dream locations set, then look at Trenitalia to get the schedule details and see how to make it minimally painful.
Enjoy the research, such fun. When I am looking for accommodations, I often just do random google searches. Travel blogs are a great resource, plus there are some pages devoted to small b&bs and agriturismi. Of course, I have gotten some stellar recommendations from Fodorites, so maybe that will pan out.

TDudette

DH and I almost always used some combo of trains, busses, and cabs. We did learn that if there was no train, there were local busses that were used by students and commuters more than tourists.

Our hotel in Perugia found Stefan who drove us in Umbria to Montepulciano, Montalcino from Perugia: Driver: http://stefanomogini.com/
Not sure if info is still current.

zebec

Necker's suggested hydrofoil idea would allow for a two-fer, ie double your group's pleasure: a transfer that is a highlight in itself, a la Venice.
I am done. the waters

neckervd

"my biggest issues are ...... getting from Siena to Milan for our stay at Lake Como"
Trains between Siena and Milan run every 30 - 60 minutes from 5am until 7pm. Change at Florence. Journey time 4 hrs..

kybourbon

I'm not sure what private buses have survived covid. I took a bus from Milan to Siena a few years ago (Baltour) and it seems the trip took about 4 hours. Baltour was connected with Sena buses,. Sena ran from Rome to Siena and were faster than the trains (I've also used that bus before). Baltour stopped outside Milan Cardorna train station and Piazza Gramsci in Siena. This was pre Flix. I don't believe Sena bus exists anymore. Not sure about Baltour. Flix currently seems to be operating 2 days a week between Siena/Milan so that could be a problem.

**I think my biggest issues are where to stay in the Tuscan countryside - and getting from Siena to Milan for our stay at Lake Como.**

The rapid bus (131R) between Siena Piazza Gramsci/Florence and then a fast train Florence/Milan would be the best/fastest option. Then on to Varenna or Como (depends where you are staying on the lake).

**Siena and the Chianti region of Tuscany. All this via train or private driver.**

There isn't much train service in Tuscany. It's better served by bus. There isn't much bus service in Chianti (you won't find bus service on Sunday and regional trains will be reduced) although you can reach a few towns from Florence.



As others suggested, southern Tuscany to me is more scenic (sweeping views) than much of Chianti. The val d'Orica and Crete Senesi is the Tuscany you tend to see in postcards. There are a lot of day tours out of Siena if you stay there. If you want to stay rural, perhaps Pienza area where you could hire a driver to Montalcino, Montepulciano or other small hill towns and Siena.

nicolettanutrito2526

I recently stayed at La Certosa di Maggiano, a nice hotel with a pool in the outskirts of Siena. It was a former convent. They will be able to set up a winery tour and transport for you. If you plan then to go to Lake Como I would not go further south in Tuscany than Siena. From Siena, you can take day trips to Val d' Orcia and Pienza.
Have fun!

Falcio

If you take the train #2817 departing from Varenna-Esino at 8:35 AM, you arrive at Siena after 5 hours and 2 easy level transfers. There is a similar option from Siena to Varenna-Esino, but I'd stay on the Lake after the arrival and one night close to Milan's Cadorna station before the departure. It's safer and would let you see a nice area in a new, less touristy, city.

Do not trust those boasting that "it takes XY hours" or "there isn't much train service in Tuscany". Check by yourself, most times these "experts" have taken around 10 trains in their lives. For instance, this is the list of all Tuscan cities served by Trenitalia: https://www.trenitalia.com/it/treni_...intoscana.html

Of course towns are served by more trains than tiny villages, so sometimes you'll have to take trains and/or buses

Jean

The issue is not that many Tuscan towns don't have ANY train service, but the hub and spoke system of routes can make train travel time-consuming depending on the itinerary. Plus, in most small towns, the train station is not IN the town or the nearest station might not be in the town you're staying in, so there is travel time getting to and from stations at both ends of the journey. Even in Siena, the taxi ride from the train station to a city center hotel can take 20-30 minutes.

I've taken 100s of trains in Italy. But even if I had been on only 10 trains, for me a journey of 5+ hours from Varenna to Siena is time-consuming. And that's just the train ride. You can disagree about it being "time-consuming," but the train ride still takes 5+ hours. And I would love to say the trains in Italy always run on time, but they don't.

HappyTrvlr

We have stayed in the Chianti region four times. Look at Castellina and Panzano,also Radda for your visit. We have always rented a car and don't know how you could do this area justice without a car. We spent a minimum of a week there on each trip. We have stayed in hotels and rented villas.

kybourbon

***Do not trust those boasting that "it takes XY hours" or "there isn't much train service in Tuscany". Check by yourself, most times these "experts" have taken around 10 trains in their lives. For instance, this is the list of all Tuscan cities served by Trenitalia: https://www.trenitalia.com/it/treni_...intoscana.html***

Better yet, before you believe someone accusing others of lying, look at their poster history and compare to the person's making accusations. FTR - You can search my posts for Italy trains/transport and you will turn up hundred if not thousands over a span of 18 years on this board. I've been posting here longer than that (mostly in the Italy forum), but you can't search easily for posts before registration was made a requirement in 2003. Fodor's travel boards started in 1996 and I've been posting here since 1998.

Further, the Trenitalia link about Tuscan cities lists all of Tuscany, but if you actually look, you will see very few listed for Siena Province (denoted with an SI after the station) which is the area we are discussing.

I've stayed in Siena multiple times and used all kinds of transport coming and going through there from various other locations. As Jean pointed out, often the train stations are a distance from the town where distance buses will drop at the historic center such as the case in Siena for buses that drop at Piazza Gramsci. Traveling by train to Siena, I watched a couple getting off at Montepulicano Stazione thinking they were getting off at Montepulciano where they had hotel reservations. This was pre Lyft/Uber which meant they were getting off in a tiny town at least 6 miles away with no station services or taxis around. Additionally, I've stopped another couple from getting off at Torrita di Siena thinking they were at Siena.

In Siena, the train station is a distance from the historic center so you have to get other transport on arrival some of which hasn't been obvious in the past. To catch a local bus to the historic center, you've had to cross the road, enter an underground parking structure for the mall and go down a couple of levels (hopefully you bought a ticket at a store first). Some buses might leave right outside the station without doing that (such as ones I've taken to Montalcino). Oddly, some bus tickets could be bought in tabbachi while others only at dedicated bus ticket offices (which can close for a couple of hours at lunch). Luckily, more tickets are becoming available online, but can sometimes have additional restrictions. For quite a few buses departing Piazza Gramsci, you can purchase tickets at the small news/tabacchi type stores on the piazza. For other bus tickets, you have to go underground (Piazza Gramsci is really a big parking lot, not a cute piazza) where there is a ticket office and luggage storage. It's all these little details it helps to figure out before you go to avoid frustration once there.

I've taken the long series of escalators from Siena FS up to the old town be going in the mall across the street to access. While you think that might be somewhat convenient, it might not come out anywhere close to your hotel and Piazza Gramsci is often the better option. Especially if any of the multiple escalators ends up being out of order and you have to drag your luggage up a long flight of stairs.

** We have always rented a car and don't know how you could do this area justice without a car. **

I've picked up a Hertz rental in Siena before. They have an office about a block walk from the Siena FS. It's a corporate location which I try to choose over a franchise in Italy. Like many other services in more rural areas (bus/train), their days/hours are limited with no Sunday hours, 1/2 day Sat and closed for 3+ hours at lunch. You really have to plan around these types of things when traveling.