patriots2020

Looking into either a tour or Ocean cruise to Italy and Greece probably not till April 2021. Just doing my research on which may be a better choice. Tours spend more time in each country which is good but only offer some meals. Cruises offer all meals but are time limited at each destination. Looked into Viking cruises good but expensive. Really would like to do both Italy and Greece maybe 12 days
Do not know to many tour companies liked Cosmos but do not know to many more reputable companies kind of new at the tour country thing. Been on many big company cruises and am looking for advice on the best way to do this trip and suggestions on who to go with as far as company. Would be for just my wife and I and a deal with air included would be nice but not necessary
thank you for any help and advice

kja

Why not visit independently? It's very easy to do so, and the food will generally be much better (and completely under your control).

Whatever you decide, please understand that you can not possibly "do" both countries in 12 days. You might visit a few (very few) highlights of each country in that time, and if you try to visit both in that amount of time, you will spend a disproportionately large amount of your time in transit, rather than on the ground actually seeing things. Your trip, your call.

janisj

In twelve days (if that includes travel time) you would have less than 10 days on the ground. Enough time for 2 major cities and a short stay in perhaps one other area. So two cities in Italy plus a couple of days o the AC or in Tuscany . . . or maybe Rome or Venice and Athens . . . or Athens and a couple of islands.

Sassafrass

Based on my own experiences with multiple cruises, several tours and lots of independent travel in Europe, I highly recommend that with less than two weeks, you choose one country and see it on your own, or choose countries that are close together so not much time is lost to travel between.

I would not recommend a tour at all. Busses - ugh.

I would recommend a cruise if. . . . . . You have more time, enough so you could start in a major city of interest and spend 3 or 4 days there exploring, cruise, then end in another city where you could spend another 3 or 4 days exploring and sightseeing.

Otherwise, I do not think you get any real sense of Europe and what it offers. Off a bus or a ship, during the day, you will likely see a lot of other tourists, shops and a museum or castle. When you stay in a place, you experience life in the evening when locals are out walking, or sit in a square or plaza late at night with fountains splashing, musicians playing and families out for the evening. That is when European cities and towns and villages are magical.

Are your 12 days time on the ground, or does that include travel time.

patriots2020

l understand that 12 days may not be enough to do 2 countries. However this may be the last time we get a chance to go.to Europe it would be sort of my pre retirement vacation my wife has a few more years to go. So with her still.working we really cannot take like a three week vacation. And after retirement funds may be on a fixed budget. So.that is why we are trying to get the most out of this vacation So it would be 12 days possibly 14 that gets us 10 to 12 on trhe ground. If I would need to pick Italy and somewhere closer I would consider Spain
Just Greece really interested us and we just wanted to best utilize the time and see the most whether that would be a Viking Ocean cruise or a tour. And if it would be a tour which companies would be recommended to us by experienced people on this forum
thanks for all the feedback

StCirq

Generally speaking, I don't think most people on this forum consider taking a bus tour or a cruise equals "getting the most out of a vacation" or "best utilizing the time." I think almost everyone would agree that if those are your goals you'd be better off arranging your own trip and not wasting time sitting on a bus or floating by the many treasures to behold on land. You would probably get more useful information using a forum or two where people appreciate the benefits of this sort of travel.

Heimdall

From my experiences on Greek Islands that have cruise ports, a cruise is the last thing I would want to do. Santorini, for example, a small but beautiful island, has been ruined by cruise ship visits. In summer there are as many as half a dozen cruise ships anchored in the caldera, some holding over 2,000 passengers. The caldera villages of Fira and Oia are overflowing with cruisers, and I am told there are lines of up to two hours for the cable car back to the cruise ship port. I understand Venice in Italy is another port suffering from cruise ship tourism.

In total contrast you can visit independently any number of islands that are quieter and more traditional, staying for maybe three nights each. The Greek ferry system is excellent, and you have control of your itinerary. That way you have time to get acquainted with the Greek way of life, having leisurely breakfasts in outdoor cafes, beach or sightseeing in the afternoon, and drinks & dinner at a different taverna every night.

isabel

Yes you definitely don't want to go to Venice or Santorini on a cruise or tour. They are horribly crowded mid day in season and the ONLY way to actually enjoy them is to go on your own so you can spend the night and see them early morning and in the evening. Santorini is magnificent, should be seen. But I felt sorry for those cruise ship passengers standing in a long boring line waiting to go back down to the ship while the sunset they supposedly came to see was happening just around the corner but they couldn't see it! I heard some of them talking about spending half the day between waiting to get off the ship and then back down to it. Both Santorini and Venice are places like no other and that's why so many people want to see them. But if you can only do them on a cruise or organized tour you would be just as well off to just stay home and watch videos. There are places in the world where cruises or organized tours can make some sense but Italy and Greece really are much better off independently.

With 12 days (14 is better) you can visit some of both Italy and Greece if they are the countries that interest you. Depending on the places you choose you would need to fly between Italy and Spain as well so it doesn't make more sense than flying between Italy and Greece.

Where in Greece interests you - islands or Athens are what draw most people. Where are you from. Assuming it's North America it's usually considerably cheaper and quicker to fly to Italy than Greece. It would be a rushed trip, but if you can do the 14 days I would do this. Fly to Venice and spend 3 nights. Train to somewhere else in Italy that interests you - the two biggies are Florence and Rome. 3 or 4 nights there (with maybe a day trip). Then fly to Santorini (not sure about Florence but I know you can fly there from Rome). Spend 3 nights. Fly to Athens for 3 nights and fly home from Athens. Rushed but it gets you some of the main highlights.

If you can live without Athens then fly to Venice - fly to Santorini - fly to Rome and back home from there. Extend each place by a night and do some day trips. Gives you a more leisurely pace plus your transatlantic flights will be less.

Sassafrass

You want to “best utilize the time and see the most.” I guarantee you that will not happen on any tour or any cruise. It simply is not possible. I have done Spain, France and Italy; Italy & Greek Islands; and Greece, Turkey, Israel on cruises. They were all 3 to 4 week trips. The cruise parts had almost no real sightseeing, it was mostly vacation/ship experience of ship food and ship entertainment with a few hours in ports to walk around a bit.
Isabel has given you a good plan for your time frame.
Spain is no better fit with Italy than Greece.
If funds will be limited after retirement, you might consider a more budget oriented trip now even. Viking is one of the more expensive cruise lines out there and would not give you any more sightseeing than others. It would be less luxurious, but you would experience more and could probably do a nice trip yourself for half of their cost.
if you are dead set on a cruise, look at Princess and Celebrity to start. Go to vacationstogo.com and plug in Europe or Greek Islands to see what is offered.

Sassafrass

Just had a quick look to see if any cruise combo might work for you. I liked the itineraries for this year more than for next year, but didn’t look long. Anyway, you could start with a couple of days in Rome, followed with a 7 night cruise with a stop in Naples or Salerno, 5 ports in Greece and Turkey, ending in Athens, where you could stay another day or so. IMHO, best ones listed were on Princess.

janisj

" And after retirement funds may be on a fixed budget. So.that is why we are trying to get the most out of this vacation "

That is a common misconception -- if you are on a budget then you really need to do the trip independently because you can economize and make choices for yourself. Neither tours or cruises are cheaper than doing it on your own. Now, of course you can splurge traveling on your own - but you can save a huge amount rent apartments or staying in hostels etc. Also -- the more you try to squeeze in the more expensive things get and the less you actually see since so much time and money is spent on transport.

Sassafrass

So true. We saw and did so much more on our last trips to Provence and to Spain on our own. Every single minute was spent really seeing and experiencing places, and we spent half of what tours would have cost. It was always the same for Italy.

StCirq

I'm in total agreement with this. We travel often and well and far and wide here in Europe for not much more than we spend staying home. Yes, we have the big advantage of living here, but apart from that we take ample advantage of the many, many senior and other discounts available on transport, museum and exhibition entrances, meals, accommodations, and other things. When I look at how much people pay for tours and cruises my eyes pop out of my head.

Sassafrass

StCirq, Boy are you right about cost. The cost of the Lux cruises are mind blowing. Even mid-range cruises are really high. I would much rather spend the money on a trip to Europe, but DH loves cruises and I like being warm, so we do go to the Caribbean once a year, in winter, usually Jan or Feb. We do not do a lux ship or fancy stateroom, and we do not drink or gamble. Still, this year I am really cringing at the cost, probably just won’t do it again. On the European trips with a cruise, we had access to last minute, super cheap airfare, so we watched for some last minute, rock bottom cruise sale that did ports with archeological sites that I wanted to see. We don’t have the airfare anymore, so it does not make sense.

kja

You've been getting a wealth of input about how to maximize your travel dollars -- and I do hope you realize we are all trying to help you do that.

I'll add another angle: People differ tremendously in what they consider the best way to utilize limited time and money for travel. I would far rather visit a very few places in some depth rather than seeing just a bit of a lot of places -- not that there's anything wrong with that approach, either. It's just a matter of preference.

And one think I absolutely love to do is to walk around an old town or interesting area after dinner -- it can be so different than during the day, and not just because of the difference in lighting (though that's a huge part of it), but also because there are generally far fewer other people around in the evening. That's a luxury I have in large part because I don't travel via cruise or tour group.

Good luck with your decisions!

patriots2020

All of the information has been very helpful thank you all. I think if I was to choose right now I would take 14 days with a guided tour group that gives you free days on your own
I would fly into Italy spend most of my days there then overnight Ferry to the Greek isles and spend the rest of my time there
I comes down to which company has the best itinerary

Sassafrass

In that case, look at Rick Steves tours for the Italy part of your trip. He does some nice tours to interesting places with events included. Then fly to Greece for the rest of the trip. You can to Santorini from Naples, then fly to Athens.

isabel

If you are going to do a tour I agree that you should look at Rick Steves tours. And your idea of combing a tour with independent travel might be good for you. Those of us who have answered you know how easy and rewarding it is to travel independently to Greece and Italy, but for a first timer it can be daunting. Even though I've traveled independently to Europe for two decades, I recently decided to do a trip to Asia. Knowing very little about the area, and figuring I wouldn't even be able to read signs given the different alphabet used, I figured a tour was a good idea so I did as you did, posted a question asking for suggestions re tour companies. And I got responses similar to the ones you are getting (including the one from me!) saying I should do it independently. When I did some research and realized there weren't any tours that did exactly what I wanted, in the amount of time I wanted, I decided to do a tour for part of it and add on independent travel in the areas that looked 'easiest'. Now, a little further into my research, I've ditched the tour idea completely and am going to do it independently. But point is, sometimes a tour does serve a purpose for specific people. And Rick Steves has some Italy tours that might work for you. He has one 9 day tour on his website that you could do and then fly to Greece for the remaining 4-5 days. You might want to also check out the forum section of his website. They are mostly independent travelers there but a little more open to tour minded people. You have plenty of time to do more research before you need to think about booking anything. Maybe once you've done that (read a lot of trip reports) you'll decide you don't need a tour at all, but even if you do it will be a better experience from having done a lot of research.

Sassafrass

I have not personally done a Ricks Steve’s tour, but I have watched him for years and all the videos I have seen show his groups interacting with local people and evening activities. Do stick with small group tours and there are really good reasons. With big groups, the tour operator is often limited to certain hotels that can accommodate large groups and meals are often in the hotel, so you do not get a good local experience. Also, trying to follow a guide and listen in a big group is miserable. I speak from experience on all points.

Heimdall

An overnight ferry from Italy to Greece may sound appealing, but has some serious drawbacks. First you have to get to the Italian port where ferries to Greece depart, e.g. Brindisi, and that won’t be near the major Italian cities. Then, when you arrive in Greece, unless you want to stick to the Ionian islands, e.g. Corfu, will have to make your way overland to somewhere like Athens, then take a ferry or flight to islands in the Aegean Sea. All that takes time, and will end up costing more than a flight. In contrast, you can fly directly from the major Italian cities to Athens or Santorini and be there in 2-3 hours.