Two week itinerary help - Belgium, Netherlands and Germany
May 6th, 2019, 12:11 PM
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Two week itinerary help - Belgium, Netherlands and Germany
Hi Everyone,
I'd really appreciate your help in firming up a two week itinerary. We are a family of four. I'll be travelling with my parents (aged 60's) and baby (6 months old). I'm in my late 30's and we are all interested in art, architecture and cultural sights and activities e.g. museums. Below is my brief itinerary.
We are set on seeing Belgium, Netherland and Germany and would really appreciate your assistance in determining the best cities to visit that are well connected by train as we will be travelling with a baby and want to minimize transit time. Please note that we'll be arriving in Frankfurt from Toronto and would like to end in Berlin.
• Frankfurt – 2 days
• Ghent – 2 days
• Bruges – 2 days
• Antwerp – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Amsterdam – 3 days
• Berlin – 2 days
Looking forward to your comments
I'd really appreciate your help in firming up a two week itinerary. We are a family of four. I'll be travelling with my parents (aged 60's) and baby (6 months old). I'm in my late 30's and we are all interested in art, architecture and cultural sights and activities e.g. museums. Below is my brief itinerary.
We are set on seeing Belgium, Netherland and Germany and would really appreciate your assistance in determining the best cities to visit that are well connected by train as we will be travelling with a baby and want to minimize transit time. Please note that we'll be arriving in Frankfurt from Toronto and would like to end in Berlin.
• Frankfurt – 2 days
• Ghent – 2 days
• Bruges – 2 days
• Antwerp – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Amsterdam – 3 days
• Berlin – 2 days
Looking forward to your comments
May 6th, 2019, 12:23 PM
#2
>>• Frankfurt – 2 days
• Ghent – 2 days
• Bruges – 2 days
• Antwerp – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Amsterdam – 3 days
• Berlin – 2 days <<
Need a bit of clarification. To get two days in a place you need to stay 3 nights - otherwise you are not accounting for any travel time. So you would need 23-ish days for this itinerary, but you say two weeks.
And even with your count you have 16 days plus travel to from Europe so 18 days all together which is a lot more than 2 weeks. So . . . How many days do you actually have in total?
Now . . . several of those cities are near each other so you only lose about half a day every time you move . . . but it is still a LOT of moving about and a LOT of hotel changes in 2 weeks.
• Ghent – 2 days
• Bruges – 2 days
• Antwerp – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Amsterdam – 3 days
• Berlin – 2 days <<
Need a bit of clarification. To get two days in a place you need to stay 3 nights - otherwise you are not accounting for any travel time. So you would need 23-ish days for this itinerary, but you say two weeks.
And even with your count you have 16 days plus travel to from Europe so 18 days all together which is a lot more than 2 weeks. So . . . How many days do you actually have in total?
Now . . . several of those cities are near each other so you only lose about half a day every time you move . . . but it is still a LOT of moving about and a LOT of hotel changes in 2 weeks.
May 6th, 2019, 12:31 PM
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With that many 2-night stays, even 3-night stays (which amount to 1-day and 2-day visits), you're not minimizing transit time or doing yourselves any favors with regard to pleasant travels.
I realize that a lot of those places are short train rides apart, but every time you up and move it entails repacking, getting to a station, getting oriented, taking the train, getting off, getting re-oriented, finding your accommodations, getting settled. UGH! It sounds awful. With a baby, doubly awful.
Have you ever taken a train in Europe? They are wonderful, but you have to be on your toes every minute to board, de-board, pack your luggage, retrieve your luggage, bound up and down the steps - all of that complicated by the baby. And possibly the grandparents, depending on their agility.
It does not strike me as a sensible plan, at all.
I realize that a lot of those places are short train rides apart, but every time you up and move it entails repacking, getting to a station, getting oriented, taking the train, getting off, getting re-oriented, finding your accommodations, getting settled. UGH! It sounds awful. With a baby, doubly awful.
Have you ever taken a train in Europe? They are wonderful, but you have to be on your toes every minute to board, de-board, pack your luggage, retrieve your luggage, bound up and down the steps - all of that complicated by the baby. And possibly the grandparents, depending on their agility.
It does not strike me as a sensible plan, at all.
May 6th, 2019, 12:51 PM
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Frankfurt -a large modern city -great for shopping and has some acclaimed museums but from Frankfurt Airport you can get direct trains to the popular Rhine Gorge area and spend 2 days in some dreamy Rhineside town like Bingen, Rudesheim, St Goar, etc. say taking the K-D.com boat down the Rhine.
Frankfurt or Rhine town to Gent
Fastest leaves Frankfurt about 10:30 and takes just under 4 hours with no changing until Brussels for Gent. Several other connections seemingly take an hour or so often - get special discounted fares on bahn.de.com - This website is for sale! - bahn Resources and Information. - easy to book thru ticket Frankfurt-Gent.
Cologne - a huge city but right next to the train station is one of the world's largest cathedrals - throw baggage in station left-luggage - and tour the cathedral - there is a noted modern and contemporary art mseum (Ludwig Museum smack dab next to cathedral) --
https://www.museum-ludwig.de/en.html
and also right next to the cathedral, an acclaimed Romano Germanic Museum - with many artifacts of Roman times.
https://www.google.com/search?q=koln+romanischs+museum&tbm=isch&source=un iv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW-
YaD4IfiAhUCI6wKHSlgC3sQsAR6BAgHEAE&biw=1280&bih=62 5
So, a short time off the train in Cologne gives you three neat places plus a huge pedestrian shopping street also near the cathedral. On www.bahn.de/en you can book tickets with say a 3-hour break in Cologne, on the ticket to Gent.
And yes, as said so well above, traveling at a fast pace with young kid can be challenging - I would stay in Gent and day trip to Bruges or v.v. cutting one day off one of them and adding in to say Amsterdam - a city with so so many need things to see and do and could do day trips sans luggage from Amsterdam too or add it to Berlin to make 4 nights there. Fly home from Berlin.
I'd take a day away from Rotterdam and put it in Berlin - as of now you will need much of a day to train or fly and then relocate hotels. Berlin demands 3 days or I would not go. Major sights, unlike many cities, are scattered about this huge in area city. Trains go direct but take 6 h 20 min.
.
All cities are well connected by rail. With a couple of long trips the German-Benelux Railpass may be of interest to you - hop virtually any train anytime in Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany. For lots on European trains - check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com. book long-distance trains online as early as possible for discounted fares. Local trains like those in Belgium just buy at stations.
As they say in Germany on station walls - 'Have a Gute Fahrt!'
Frankfurt or Rhine town to Gent
Fastest leaves Frankfurt about 10:30 and takes just under 4 hours with no changing until Brussels for Gent. Several other connections seemingly take an hour or so often - get special discounted fares on bahn.de.com - This website is for sale! - bahn Resources and Information. - easy to book thru ticket Frankfurt-Gent.
Cologne - a huge city but right next to the train station is one of the world's largest cathedrals - throw baggage in station left-luggage - and tour the cathedral - there is a noted modern and contemporary art mseum (Ludwig Museum smack dab next to cathedral) --
https://www.museum-ludwig.de/en.html
and also right next to the cathedral, an acclaimed Romano Germanic Museum - with many artifacts of Roman times.
https://www.google.com/search?q=koln+romanischs+museum&tbm=isch&source=un iv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW-
YaD4IfiAhUCI6wKHSlgC3sQsAR6BAgHEAE&biw=1280&bih=62 5
So, a short time off the train in Cologne gives you three neat places plus a huge pedestrian shopping street also near the cathedral. On www.bahn.de/en you can book tickets with say a 3-hour break in Cologne, on the ticket to Gent.
And yes, as said so well above, traveling at a fast pace with young kid can be challenging - I would stay in Gent and day trip to Bruges or v.v. cutting one day off one of them and adding in to say Amsterdam - a city with so so many need things to see and do and could do day trips sans luggage from Amsterdam too or add it to Berlin to make 4 nights there. Fly home from Berlin.
I'd take a day away from Rotterdam and put it in Berlin - as of now you will need much of a day to train or fly and then relocate hotels. Berlin demands 3 days or I would not go. Major sights, unlike many cities, are scattered about this huge in area city. Trains go direct but take 6 h 20 min.
.
All cities are well connected by rail. With a couple of long trips the German-Benelux Railpass may be of interest to you - hop virtually any train anytime in Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany. For lots on European trains - check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com. book long-distance trains online as early as possible for discounted fares. Local trains like those in Belgium just buy at stations.
As they say in Germany on station walls - 'Have a Gute Fahrt!'
Last edited by PalenQ; May 6th, 2019 at 01:00 PM.
May 6th, 2019, 01:06 PM
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If talking to me, I was dwelling on answering the OP's question but did say:
"And yes, as said so well above, traveling at a fast pace with young kid can be challenging - I would stay in Gent and day trip to Bruges or v.v. cutting one day off one of them".
AS SAID SO WELL ABOVE - not necessary for repeating what was said but that has been said and OP only knows whether that will be a challenge or not. So often in these cases several people say the same thing, calling it not possible, sometimes in brutal ways.
"And yes, as said so well above, traveling at a fast pace with young kid can be challenging - I would stay in Gent and day trip to Bruges or v.v. cutting one day off one of them".
AS SAID SO WELL ABOVE - not necessary for repeating what was said but that has been said and OP only knows whether that will be a challenge or not. So often in these cases several people say the same thing, calling it not possible, sometimes in brutal ways.
May 6th, 2019, 01:19 PM
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Pal, how about you quit using the word "dreamy." Sooooo vapid.
Your suggestions for this poor guy are even worse than what he had planned for himself.
Why don't you aim for an earlier bedtime? It would do you a world of good and spare us your nonsense.
Your suggestions for this poor guy are even worse than what he had planned for himself.
Why don't you aim for an earlier bedtime? It would do you a world of good and spare us your nonsense.
May 6th, 2019, 01:25 PM
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OK - guilty of reading OP then forgetting about baby - so that's why I suggested changes - plus to base one place in Bruges or Gent and maybe drop Berlin. So, no more hijacking of thread. The advice I gave thinking they were all adults I think was very good. Ca y'est.
May 6th, 2019, 02:46 PM
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I think creating bases is a sensible plan - all the Belgium destinations can be see from one hub (probably Ghent, Brussels or Antwerp), as you have a lot of packing and unpacking and a hub will reduce that right down. However, the town of Ghent is a distance from the railway station, so factor in that you will be getting on and off a tram if you stay in the town centre. There are hotels near the station. Or even better - strip away most destinations and just go for one base. You could possibly do Rotterdam from Antwerp if you picked that as a base, and Ghent and Bruges would be easy from there.
Your two days in Frankfurt will be eaten up by jetlag on the first day so think about what you might want to do there. Frankfurt is OK for a couple of days. If you end up taking the train to Belgium from Frankfurt depending on the train you have to choose your trains carefully as you may have to change in Cologne (for the Thalys you will have to change but possibly not for the ICE train.) I would try to avoid this with the considerable luggage you will have.
Also - travelling with an infant is cumbersome. I did it mostly with a car because it's simply much easier, but admittedly not until my daughter was over 1. Think about backpacks to keep your hands free. You may have a pram (stroller) and maybe a daypack or nappy bag as well as your suitcases or bags, and possibly even your child's luggage as well as yours. On the plane see if you can pre-book the bassinet at the bulkhead for the baby. Also think about changing nappies when out and about and regular rest breaks for the baby. You can do it - it's not as though locals don't have children, but remember you don't know the shops with the change tables (yet). Possibly such a young one will just nap in the pram but you might find you want more regular rest yourself. An apartment or aparthotel (somewhere with a washing machine and a microwave) is a bonus.
Amsterdam to Berlin is a long leg - if you don't drop that leg, consider flying it.
Lavandula
Your two days in Frankfurt will be eaten up by jetlag on the first day so think about what you might want to do there. Frankfurt is OK for a couple of days. If you end up taking the train to Belgium from Frankfurt depending on the train you have to choose your trains carefully as you may have to change in Cologne (for the Thalys you will have to change but possibly not for the ICE train.) I would try to avoid this with the considerable luggage you will have.
Also - travelling with an infant is cumbersome. I did it mostly with a car because it's simply much easier, but admittedly not until my daughter was over 1. Think about backpacks to keep your hands free. You may have a pram (stroller) and maybe a daypack or nappy bag as well as your suitcases or bags, and possibly even your child's luggage as well as yours. On the plane see if you can pre-book the bassinet at the bulkhead for the baby. Also think about changing nappies when out and about and regular rest breaks for the baby. You can do it - it's not as though locals don't have children, but remember you don't know the shops with the change tables (yet). Possibly such a young one will just nap in the pram but you might find you want more regular rest yourself. An apartment or aparthotel (somewhere with a washing machine and a microwave) is a bonus.
Amsterdam to Berlin is a long leg - if you don't drop that leg, consider flying it.
Lavandula
May 6th, 2019, 05:20 PM
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OK, trying to understand what your trip is all about. You have allowed an equal number of days to most every place. All places are not equal. What specifically are you wanting to do or see most in each place? In other words, why did you choose those particular places? What is their unique appeal to you? Have you traveled in Europe before and these are filling in the holes?
As someone else pointed out, you must have 3 nights to have 2 days in a place. Otherwise you have only partial days, and you should never count travel time as time is a place.
I love train travel in Europe, but with a baby, might consider a car for part of the time. Would have to firm up itinerary first, or if a car is out of the question, then really focus on a better itinerary. If sticking with trains, pick hubs and do more day trips.
Must you fly into Frankfurt? Some special interest? If not, do not try to save money by wasting a lot of time in a place in which you have no interest.
More information will enable you to get better specific ideas/suggestions.
As someone else pointed out, you must have 3 nights to have 2 days in a place. Otherwise you have only partial days, and you should never count travel time as time is a place.
I love train travel in Europe, but with a baby, might consider a car for part of the time. Would have to firm up itinerary first, or if a car is out of the question, then really focus on a better itinerary. If sticking with trains, pick hubs and do more day trips.
Must you fly into Frankfurt? Some special interest? If not, do not try to save money by wasting a lot of time in a place in which you have no interest.
More information will enable you to get better specific ideas/suggestions.
May 7th, 2019, 09:04 AM
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Yes, it can be done, but with a very young baby, I respectfully question the sense of using Rotterdam as a base for those places. Rotterdam to Bruges is about a two hour trip each way, so four hours of the day eaten up with travel. People here can certainly give the OP some good advice. The itinerary as planned is not good at all. However, until the OP returns with more info, no point offering details that won't work.
May 7th, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Yes, it can be done, but with a very young baby, I respectfully question the sense of using Rotterdam as a base for those places. Rotterdam to Bruges is about a two hour trip each way, so four hours of the day eaten up with travel. People here can certainly give the OP some good advice. The itinerary as planned is not good at all. However, until the OP returns with more info, no point offering details that won't work.
Rotterdam - Amsterdam 40 minutes
Brugge is the outlier, as it always is. If Antwerp is to be the base, then Amsterdam is the outlier. If I were to split it up, I'd choose Gent as a base for Belgium and then move on to Amsterdam directly.
Train travel with a baby is easy, but I'd advise to buy first class tickets for stretches of over an hour.
May 8th, 2019, 01:30 PM
#17
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for your comments. And to answer some of your questions, the main reason we chose those three countries is that between my parents and I, none of us has travelled to all of them collectively. In planning this family trip we want to visit cities that either none of us have gone to and/or all of us have visited before, absolutely loved and want to go again. The latter of which is Amsterdam. The three of us have never been to Belgium, Rotterdam, and Frankfurt. My parents have been to Berlin and absolutely loved it whereas I haven't been. Plus the three countries are rich in culture, architecture and history - our main interests while travelling and are located close to each other. So in reviewing all of your comments I have come up with the following revised itinerary.. comments are welcome
• Fly into Berlin – 4 days
• Amsterdam – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Antwerp – 4 days (with side trips to Bruges, Ghent and Brussels)
• Fly out of Frankfurt – 1 day
Thanks for your comments. And to answer some of your questions, the main reason we chose those three countries is that between my parents and I, none of us has travelled to all of them collectively. In planning this family trip we want to visit cities that either none of us have gone to and/or all of us have visited before, absolutely loved and want to go again. The latter of which is Amsterdam. The three of us have never been to Belgium, Rotterdam, and Frankfurt. My parents have been to Berlin and absolutely loved it whereas I haven't been. Plus the three countries are rich in culture, architecture and history - our main interests while travelling and are located close to each other. So in reviewing all of your comments I have come up with the following revised itinerary.. comments are welcome
• Fly into Berlin – 4 days
• Amsterdam – 2 days
• Rotterdam – 3 days
• Antwerp – 4 days (with side trips to Bruges, Ghent and Brussels)
• Fly out of Frankfurt – 1 day
May 8th, 2019, 01:38 PM
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How you getting to Amsterdam? Even flying takes half a day and trains longer - but you'all have been there before. Why not skip Amsterdam and go right to Rotterdam which is now less than an hour from Amsterdam - meaning a day trip there sans luggage may be better than your scheduled 1.5 days there.
Maybe clip a day off Rotterdam and give to Frankfurt so you can fully appreciate it.
Maybe clip a day off Rotterdam and give to Frankfurt so you can fully appreciate it.
May 8th, 2019, 01:47 PM
#19
You need to think in terms of nights . . .
In other words - will you have 5 nights in Berlin, 3 nights in Amsterdam, 4 nights in Rotterdam, 5 nights in Antwerp and 1 night in Frankfurt - 19 nights in total including your overnight flight? That is what you'll need to net the number of days in each destination.
If not - then you will have less time in every city than you think.
In other words - will you have 5 nights in Berlin, 3 nights in Amsterdam, 4 nights in Rotterdam, 5 nights in Antwerp and 1 night in Frankfurt - 19 nights in total including your overnight flight? That is what you'll need to net the number of days in each destination.
If not - then you will have less time in every city than you think.
May 8th, 2019, 04:12 PM
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Hi there - so I've added more detail and made revisions to note nights.. please see below.. thanks!
Depart Toronto on Sept 10, arrive in Berlin on 11th
• Fly into Berlin – 4 nights
(Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam)
• Amsterdam – 2 nights
• Rotterdam – 3 nights
• Antwerp – 3 nights (with side trips to Ghent and Brussels)
• Frankfurt – 1 night
Leave Frankfurt on Sept 24th
Depart Toronto on Sept 10, arrive in Berlin on 11th
• Fly into Berlin – 4 nights
(Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam)
• Amsterdam – 2 nights
• Rotterdam – 3 nights
• Antwerp – 3 nights (with side trips to Ghent and Brussels)
• Frankfurt – 1 night
Leave Frankfurt on Sept 24th
