Ceinwen

Have received great info before and hate to be a pest, but decisions re logistics are difficult. Here's the itenerary ; Zurich to Salo Italy, Sept 10; Salo to Bellagio, Sept 14; Bellagio to Saas Fee, Sept 17; Saas Fee to Guggisberg, Sept 24; bach to Zurich, Sept 28. Fiest decision: Zurich Brig Brescia, about 7 hrs, or, very scenic trip via Tirano or Mals. Would our 2'nd class Swisspass cover the Bernina Express? If very scenic route, which one? Next, the best way to get from Salo to Bellagio. Finally best way from Bellagio to Saas Fee (We're good from there.) Would it help to get an Italy Pass, or is that too costly. 2'nd class is Switzerland we've found gives a decent view of scenery, but don't know about Italy. Any help/advice is deeply appreciated.

PalenQ

No to any Italian pass -not nearly traveling enough on trains in Italy and no to a Swiss-Italy Pass - Swiss Pass yes and it covers the Bernina Pass Express in full except for the seat reservation/supplement of about $10- it is the most awesomely scenic train in Europe IME.

For lots on Swiss trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Bellagio to Saas Fee- you can go to Bellagio via the Bernina Express - get off at Varenna-Esino and take a boat to Bellagio. To get to Saas Fee take a train from Varenna-Esino to Milan and then direct trains to Brig and takea train to St Niklaas (I think that is the name of the station where you change to a postal bus to Saas Fee - also covered by your Swiss Pass.)

Ceinwen

Thanks for the info. Already have the Swisspass. Would I be correct in assuming that we would bus or boat from Salo on Lake Garda to Desensenzo (SP) and then train to Varena? Can't wait for this trip.

HappyTrvlr

Saló is lovely with it's waterfront promenade, pretty town. Didn't see any Americans during our stay. An Italian friend who lives on Lake Maggiore recommended Saló to us and we really enjoyed it. We had a car so don't know about using the train. You could always get a taxi to train.

Dukey1

If you really are planning to do the Zurich-Brig-Brescia segment using the Bernina Express then you really need to either take the Glacier Express from Brig to at least as far as Chur and OVERNIGHT there and then take the Bernina to Tirano OR

take the train directly to Chur from Zurich and change for the Bernina Express there.

Ceinwen

The two options under consideration are Zurich - Brescia via Brig and Milan, orvia Chur and Tirano, then bus to Salo. Is the journey via Brrnina Express that much more scenic so as to justify the extra time?

PalenQ

then you really need to either take the Glacier Express from Brig to at least as far as Chur>

You do NOT NEED nor IMO SHOULD YOU take the Glacier Express Brig to Chur as you can also take regular trains. GE trains are often full and charge a 35 buck or so surcharge over normal trains and the Brig-Chur scenery is not that awesome. And even with the one change usually required regular trains are usually FASTER than the Glacier-Express- sometimes about an hour faster! So forget about the hassle involved with the GE Brig to Chur.

You may want to take the GE Brig to St Moritz - stay there and in the morning take the Bernina Express- this takes about 1.5 hours longer than GE Brig to Chur but with the latter you have to go Chur to St Moritz in about 1.5 hours.

Chur is a detour off the direct Brig to St Moritz route - which cuts off at Reichenau to St Moritz- no reason to have to go to Chur from Brig as you can be in St Moritz in little more on regular trains than in Chur (just over an hour longer on some connections)- makes NO sense to go to Chur to get to the Bernina Express.

If coming from Zurich you must change trains in Chur because of track gauge differences but again no reason it seems not to go onto St Moritz. Chur is a pleasant town like most Swiss cities - I've stayed there and nothing special about it - go onto St Moritz for the overnight - or Pontresina which many like better - a more rural feeling - can take direct trains Brig to Pontresina as well and the Bernina Express train connects thru there to I believe.

neckervd

You got already all the details and timetables you need in the answers to your previous posts.
Zurich - Salo: train to Milan (change) - Brescia (change to bus) - Salo.
If you prefer the Bernina itinerary: train to Chur (change on the same platform) - Tirano (change to bus) - Edolo (change to train) - Brescia (change to bus) - Salo.
Salo - Bellagio: bus to Brescia - train to Milan (change) - Varenna - ferry to Bellagio. Alternative: train from Milano C to Como SG and bus to Bellagio.
Bellagio - Saas Fee: back to Milan (see above), then train to Brig or Visp and bus to Saas Fee.
Saas Fee - Guggisberg: bus to Visp - train to Berne (change) - Schwarzenburg - bus to Guggisberg.
Guggisberg - Zurich: bus to Schwarzenburg - train to Berne (change) - Zurich - ZRH.
The Swiss Travel Pass is valid within Switzerland (up to Mals, Tirano, Chiasso and Domodossola.

PalenQ

Note that regular regional trains run frequently on the Bernina Express route and no reservations needed with a pass just jump on - same scenery and big enough windows IME to appreciate the scenery.

Is the scenery that awesome to make a detour - hard to say - trains Brig to Zermatt are also very very scenic - I guess I would only do it if convenient - not if it takes a whole day or so extra.

Dukey1

Congratulations, Pal, for FINALLY telling people what the cost of a seat reservation REALLY is.

PalenQ

dukey I have NEVER said the the wrong info for seat reservations TMK - on either the Glacier Express or Bernina Express and have always stated about $12 for Bernina and $35 for Glacier - not sure where you are getting that false info from - for someone who is a constant source of rail misinformation that's a laugh. (Like your suggestion above to take the GE to Chur to get the Bernina Express.)

neckervd

In order to add to the confusion:
It's perfectly possible to go by GEX from Zermatt or Brig to Samedan and to continue via Bernina Pass to Tirano and even Milan.
This round trip for railway fans (I wouldn't even do it if I would be paid for) could look like this:

Milan dp 7.23 - Brig 9.16/10.18 - Glacier Express - Samedan 16.45/16.48 - Pontresina 16.55/17.04 - Bernina - Tirano 19.00/19.08 or 20.08 - Milan ar 21.40 or 22.40.

PalenQ

Why take expensive GEX and not regular trains Brig to Samedan?

Ceinwen

No confusion! Going Zurich-Brig-Milan-Brescia-Salo. Sorry if my querries were not real clear. Bernina Express takes too long and too many changes for us old farts.