branderson925

So this may seem a little scattered but I was curious how the general feel of this trip seems to others.

Who: We are a couple 23-25 yr old who love active traveling. We are very much into walking/biking tours, arts, museums, food and wine (I'm a sommelier!), history, nature and meeting people. We are looking for a trip that will keep us busy with a couple of days mixed into just chill and regroup as we acknowledge are necessary

What: 16 days starting in Paris ending in Copenhagen (These are the best discount flight options to and from Boston via WowAirlines)

When: April 26 - May 12

How: Mostly via hostels, the occasional couchsurfing adventure, and perhaps one splurge night in a cheaper city for a hotel. We are looking to stay around under 100/day for food, fun and hostel accomodations (so yes cheap as we can while still getting a good glimpse)

Why: Because we LOVE Europe and have never left the country together. We each studied in Europe while in college (Her: St. Petersburg Myself: Florence) We both really loved Prague and Eastern European places quite a bit and she's never seen Paris

The layout:
April 26: Leave Boston for Paris
April 27-28-29: Paris
April 30-May 1: Loire Valley (Hopefully renting a car one of the days for a vineyard or two)
May 2: Return to Paris in the am to fly to Bratislava
May 2-3: Bratislava
May 4: Train to Krakow
May 4-5-6: Krakow (Overnight train to Budapest?)
May 7-8-9: Budapest
May 10-12 Copenhagen
May 12 Night flight back to Boston

I know the Bratislava - Krakow - Budpaest is a bit of backtracking. The thing is I can only find Budapest as a legitimate and cheap way to get back to Copenhagen for our flight home (and to discover a bit of Copenhagen) I know Bratislava is very close to Budapest relatively speaking but I'm sort of confused as to what move to make. I think overnight trains back and forth to and from Krakow may be weird. But we are young and don't mind a few rough nights. We are definitely looking for advice and recommendations. We greatly appreciate it and are SUPER excited to be taking this adventure. Thanks in advance for your help and to everyone who has ever posted trip reports, itineraries or helped previously. You are what makes this place so special!

PalenQ

Well about the trains you are taking - overnight trains are not for everyone - especially if you are a light sleeper - that said at your age that is rarely a problem - when I was your age I took tons of night trains and loved it - for lots of info about trains in central Europe and Europe in general check these IME superb sites: www.seat61.com (good info on discounted tickets); www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

If not doing that night train it is a long long slog to do it by train during the day.

Get a copy of Let's Go Europe - invaluable coverage of hostels and budget hotels- but many hostels do not have private rooms and have sex-segregated dorms - check out Youth Hotels - a mix between hostels and hotels where you can get private rooms and also meet lots of folks your age from all over the world.

PalenQ

Unless you do easy day trip from Krakow to Auschwitz (ain't for everyone!) or the Wieliczka Salt Mines just south of Krakow and a UNESCO World Heritage Site - that many days in Krakow itself would be too much for many - a fairly small city with a compact old town center - lovely town but...

branderson925

Thanks PalenQ. We were considering both Auschwitz and Salt Mines. We were unsure of the proximity as far as planning from Krakow. We wanted to do Warsaw and Krakow but do not have enough time so the extra day went to Krakow. Also considering moving it to Budapest or Paris as well. So many decisions!

Oh and we were considering youth hostels as we're a co-ed couple and wanna stay together when possible.

nytraveler

If you mean less than 100 ($ I assume) for both of you per day I think that is just way short. You will not get a private room in a hostel for that - are you OK sharing a dorm room with a bunch of strangers?

And even then I think your budget is really tight if it has to cover trains between cities, transit in cities, entrance to sights and meals (even if they are street food and picnics). Just ran a quick check and it looks like hostels in Paris are about $40 per bed (person and locker) per night.

So perhaps you will have to do couchsurfing the whole way.

But I still fear you will find yourselves broke before the end of the trip.

branderson925

Hi nytraveler, no 100/person. Perhaps I should have specified, sorry.

"We are looking to stay around under 100/day for food, fun and hostel accomodations"

This is NOT referring to train rides just meals, food and museums/attractions (we don't plan on doing super pricey activities)

brizzieLizzie

What about flying from Paris to Krakow ? ( Easyjet does a direct flight) Then overnight train to Budapest. Visit Bratislava as a day-trip from Budapest

This gives you only one long train trip and avoid backtracking

kja

In light of your stated interests, this trip seems extremely rushed to me. Are you sure that you will be able to see / experience the things that are even your highest priorities with this plan? if you haven't already done so, I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location, check their opening/closing times on the internet, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together.

Please don't calculate your overall trip costs by looking at transportation costs only -- remember that your overnight and meal costs will vary depending on where you are, not to mention your costs for museums, etc. And remember that flying usually means taking MUCH more time to get to / from the airport than getting to / from a train or bus station, etc.

Bottom line: you would be well advised to plot things out on a calendar before committing to any specific plan. JMO.

"We were considering both Auschwitz and Salt Mines. We were unsure of the proximity as far as planning from Krakow. We wanted to do Warsaw and Krakow but do not have enough time so the extra day went to Krakow.'

I honestly do not believe you can reasonably visit Auschwitz and the Salt Mines in the same day. Have you searched this board for comments? Visiting Auschwitz / Birkenau can be an amazingly powerful experience, but it generally must be done with a tour, and really can't be just crammed in with something else -- even if you find it emotionally possible to do ANYTHING else that day (and many of us find that we need a very quiet evening after seeing these powerful sites).

My best advice: do some more research. I'm sorry to say so, but your plan and your stated interests do not, IMO, mesh well. I think you would do well to consider seeing fewer places in at least a tad more depth than your current plan allows. JMO.

Good luck!

bilboburgler

Of the sites you mention all are interesting but Bratislava is way down the list of places compared to the rest so I would drop it.

I would spread the time out over the other sites.

Loire wine, I have a Diploma from the WSET, is around 1000km long, given the amazing recovery actions in say the Palette wine AC of Muscadet, the chance to visit Bourgeuil, Saumur, Vouvray, Quincy, Sancerre etc etc I struggle to see how you can cut the time so tight. You could use trains and buses supported by renting bikes rather than cars for example (the bike path along the Loire is pretty good) but maybe a car is best.

I assume Budapest will include a visit to Eger for the true Bulls blood and you have thought about a train trip to Tokaij? Don't forget to go to a Spa.

branderson925

Hi brizzielizzie, thanks for your response. A flight from Paris to Krakow via easyjet would make sense but the dates we would be looking at May 1-5 are minimum 92 EU. The cost from Paris to Bratislava is around 20 EU for the same date range


Hi kja, thanks for your response. I was not calculating trip costs based on transportation costs only. I don't really see how you could interpret that based on what I've written in my posts. Sorry to be blunt. I said 100/day for meals/hostels/fun. Flights/trains/buses is coming from a separate savings budget. I thought I was clear that the estimated "on the ground" budget was just food, accomodations and a bit of entertainment.

When I said we were considering Auschwitz and the Salt Mines, that was implied that we were interested in both destinations separately. Perhaps I should have been extremely clear and said we were interested in doing ONE but not BOTH on this trip. Just as a day trip since Krakow in 2 days would appear reasonable.
Can you please better explain this:
"My best advice: do some more research. I'm sorry to say so, but your plan and your stated interests do not, IMO, mesh well."
How do they not "mesh well" just a little confused as to how I should restructure.

Hi bilbo, thanks for your response. Bratislava just popped up as a cheap means to get from Paris to region we were interested in (Budapest/Poland) It would be a place we would enjoy spending a day or two but it was more than practical jump off aspect. I am looking more at dropping it to invest in Budapest and/or Krakow.

As far as the Loire, bilbo, I don't think seeing a vineyard or two would take more than the two days I have alloted. I didn't say I want to see Nantes, Muscadet, Chinon, Samur, etc. We want to see a couple of chateau such as Chambord and Amboise followed by a day in Vouvray.

Thanks for the reminder about Eger. We were considering Tokaji as well! Might be nice if we make a day trip out of it from Budapest (seeing as we'd have a day to add via the Bratislava plan)

branderson925

The UPDATED layout:
April 26: Leave Boston for Paris
April 27-28-29: Paris
April 30-May 1-May 2: Loire Valley (Hopefully renting a car one of the days for a vineyard or two)
May 3: AM Flight from Paris to Krakow
May 3-4-5-: Krakow (Day trip to Auschwitz OR Salt Mines)
May 5 Night Train to Budapest
May 6-7-8-9 Budapest (With day trip to Tokaj or Eger)
May 10-12 Copenhagen (Yes we know this is just one full day in Copenhagen which we would be cool with. We're on the waitlist at Noma for May 11 and this would be plenty since it would be our last day of the trip essentially)
May 12 Night flight back to Boston

kja

Sorry for the misunderstanding on costs -- yes, you were clear.

My statement that your interests and plan don't seem to mesh well is based on my impression that (a) you would need FAR more time in these locations than you are giving them to meet your stated interests in "walking/biking tours, arts, museums, food and wine ..., history, nature and meeting people" and (b) you also said, "We are looking for a trip that will keep us busy with a couple of days mixed into just chill and regroup" because I see no room for down time. Again, maybe you really can meet your interests -- but I think it would be to your advantage to plot it out on a calendar and see if that really is possible.

lynda_berlin

I also think it is very packed. For example, last year we spent 3 full days in Krakow (with no day-trips) and found lots to do, incl artists' houses (museums),art museums as well as the historical sites. Since your stated interests are similar and you want to include a day-trip you will have a very full 2 and a half days!

If you want to keep costs down, the best thing would be the spend more time in Poland, which is a very cheap country, especially when compared to spending time in Paris and Copenhagen, which are among the most expensive cities in Europe. Last summer we paid about 200zloty(around 50€) a night for a double room in 3-star hotels in Poland (admittedly over 60€ in Krakow but it was August).
You do eat very well in Poland too. But I realise there aren't so many vineyards in Poland (although there are some).


3rd May is a public holiday in Poland (Constitution Day),so you may find not everywhere is open the day you arrive.

bilboburgler

Tokaij is a good visit (we spent 2 days there) worth trying the dry fermint (ferment?) with fish down by the river (there is a line of fish restaurants). tiny town a bit like Chablis

Vouvray, there is a big fizz maker at the end of town who does a good spiel (so organised etc), Chenin keeps very well, most of mine are >20 years old now but I go back every year or so to buy just a little fresh stuff.

Savenierre is available locally and Baumard for a fantastic sweet range that blows Vouvray out of the water.

PalenQ

When driving to wineries along the Loire if you see a Champignons sign out front of the troglodyte houses along the Loire's south bank it means you can stop by and buy fresh mushrooms and see the caves where they are grown.

The Bourgeuil area has the largest vineyards in the Loire -miles and miles of them and several wineries to visit.

bilboburgler

P is right Bourgeuil is great as is the sub ac of st nicolas but Americans tend to prefer Chinon (good for them someone has to drink the sub-par stuff )

PalenQ

Bourgeuil is plenty popular in France -my local Carrefour stocks a lot of it - kind of a local Loire wine for this area (Orleans) perhaps. I love Chinon too!

PalenQ

Vouvray the small town makes a neat stop for folks looking for wineries to tour as there are several clustered here - with caves hewn into the cliffs that border the towns - you can tour the caves.

A few decades ago when the French Railways decided to bore a tunnel under Vouvray for its high-speed line local vintners complained that the shaking would shake up their Vouvray so special steps were taken to prevent that - you can see the TGVs blow along coming out of the tunnel near Vouvray.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vouv...Q3jBUEQsAQIHgt

bilboburgler

My preferred Vouvray is George Brunet (now Nicholas Brunet) but this place is small and you really need to buy wine if you go there, the cellar is regularly enlarged and a pick sits by the door to the cave to be ready at hand when they need to dig more out. You can see the vine roots coming through the ceiling in places...

If you are not really going to buy then it is better to pay for a visit at a larger place as they have the facilities and staff laid on for that to be part of the business. If you decide to eat there are two places that are worth looking at, at the turning off the main road, over looking the river is the simpler but better restaurant, however, if you like fine dining turn into town and it is on the right of the "main" square (this is a small town so it is not big) before you pass down to the chemists is the posher restaurant.

The good thing about the first place is that if you order a Vouvray to drink with your meal the producer may be in the place with you

PalenQ

Prost!