PatrickC

Hi everyone,

We are a traveling party of 2 adults and 2 kids. I have a draft itinerary for my trip to Europe during late November and would like your views on it.

I am planning to fly to Rome and then make my way to London through Venice, Vienna, Prague, Munich, Amsterdam, and Paris.

My plans are as follows:-

(Fly into Rome)
Day 1: Arrive in Rome
Day 2: Rome
Day 3: Rome (3 nights)
Day 4: Train to Venice in the morning to arrive in the afternoon in Venice.
Day 5: Venice (on the 2nd night, overnight train to Vienna to arrive by morning in Vienna)( 1 night in Venice)
Day 6: Vienna
Day 7: Vienna (2 nights in Vienna)
Day 8: Train in morning to Prague to arrive by afternoon
Day 9: Prague
Day 10rague (3 nights in Prague)
Day 11: Train in morning to Munich to arrive by afternoon
Day 12: Munich (on the 2nd night, overnight train to Amsterdam)
Day 13–Amsterdam.
Day 14-Amsterdam.
Day 15-Amsterdam.
Day 16- Train in morning to Paris to arrive by afternoon Vienna –
Day 17-Paris
Day 18-Paris
Day 19- Train in morning to London to arrive by afternoon
London-5 nights
(Fly out from London)

We are not much into museums but do not mind visiting one or two in each city. I am aware that it is best to spend more night in each city as advised by most members but we cant seem to spare more time unless it is absolutely necessary.

Any thoughts?

TQ in advance.

Regards

Patrick

artsnletters

I know you see bus tours with itineraries like this, 2 or 3 nights here or there, meaning 1 or 2 days. However, it's a frantic pace, and one that is very difficult to duplicate on your own, especially with kids (though you don't say what age). My advice is to cut your destinations in about half and spend a little time at the places you do go, so you'll have memories beyond jogging past the most famous sights.

janisj

How old are your kids? Are you sure you can all sleep on overnight trains?

This itinerary isn't terrible (trust me, we see MANY worse ones) - but it is fairly fast paced and is cramming an awful lot over a huge area in a relatively short time.

IMO this would be fast/frantic but doable w/ say a couple of teenagers. W/ kids under maybe 12 -- it would be much more difficult..

nytraveler

IMHO this is a wonderful tour of the train stations of europe. You really don;t have the time to see even the major sights anywhere - and you will no sooner arrive and find your hotel than the next day you will have to repack and head out.

And in November you have not allowed for a couple of things:

It will be dark much earlier than in the summer
Many sights will be open shorter hours than in the summer (in Italy some sights are open only from 9 am to 1 pm, then close for the day)
You are going to get weather that will be chilly - and can be very cold in some places - with rain likely and snow possible in some places

You will have NO time to actually get a feel for any of these place - no time to sit in a cafe or pub and watch this very different world go buy.

The bus tours with this type of itinerary have all arrangements made well in advance and are led by someone familiar with all of the cities. And they work on all early (7 am?) starts - are you willing to do that - to catch trains that leave at 7 or 7:30 am?

PatrickC

Hi

My daughter is 14 and my son is 10.I do agree that it is quick pace and may need to make further improvement on it possibly by extending the nights.

StCirq

It's insane - a research trip of European trains stations. With kids, OMG, I can't even imagine how horrible!

PatrickC

Hi

Which part of the itinerary should i improve on?

artsnletters

I'd pass on Prague and Amsterdam this time around only because they are farthest away from everywhere else. Five cities in 19 days sounds about right - it's still a fairly brisk pace. With the days saved, add time everywhere else, especially Rome and Paris, which offer so much. Although, in the end, you're the one who knows best which of these destinations are the most important to you, and which you could let wait until the next trip.

ellenem

Explain your interests and why you chose these particular places to visit. We can't tel you what to adjust or cut without knowing which places are most important to you and what you like to do.

PatrickC

I dont mind bypassing Amsterdam but I cant bypass Prague as the main purpose of the trip is to be in Prague.Any other suggestion? I could add more days to the cities.

PatrickC

I am interested in Vienna and Prague because of the xmas markets. Rome and Prague-Religious reason
Amsterdam-curiosity-never been there.
Paris-main tourist attraction
Munich-on the way.
Venice-the canals

janisj

>>I am interested in Vienna and Prague because, etc etc etc . . . <<

You are interested in half of Europe - so am I but I wouldn't try to cram everything into 17.5 days. (I say 17.5 because your arrival day will likely be a jet lagged fog for at least some of your family and on day 19 you leave in the AM there is no 'Paris time'). And you spend a good % of those 17.5 days packing, checking out, taking trains, checking in, unpacking.

So double your time, or cut a couple of destinations

Sassafrass

Do you have no interest in Florence? It is a gorgeous city with a small, walkable center and would fit so well in between Rome and Venice. It would be easy to substitute Florence for Vienna. Did you know the kids can climb to the top of the Duomo?

Another tiny city your kids might enjoy would be Bruges, which you could place between Amsterdam and Paris. It could substitute for Prague. Bruges would be lovely if you happened to get snow. If it happened to be a warmer winter, you could rent bikes and tour the windmills. Too cold? Take a carriage ride along the canals. The little center is beautifully lit at night and has wonderful little candy shops.

I know Bruges is not Prague and Florence is not Vienna, but they are interesting cities of great beauty - just offering places worthy of visits while shortening travel times between, so you maximize sightseeing time and minimize travel time.

Until Christmas lights go up, November can look kind of bleak, and as nytraveler said, it will get dark early, just plan for inside evening events like concerts & theater in London or carriage rides in other cities, perhaps even ice skating if The Netherlands has an early, cold winter. All of it can be fun. Just plan for options.

Sassafrass

Sorry, just saw your response that Prague is of major interest - very difficult trip.

Brooke_Herron

Florence is absolutely a must if you are already doing Rome and Venice and in fact I'd far prefer it over Venice if I had a choice of only one. Venice is gorgeous but also incredibly crowded every month of the year and expensive and hard to find non touristy restaurants, etc. Of course a worthwhile stop but with kids Florence is more open and has many options: can take a picnic to the Palazzo Pitti & Giardini Boboli( Pitti Palace& Boboli gardens) & stroll around the beautiful grounds with views of the whole city, go and see David ( short enough kids won't get bored but magnificent enough for you to come awAy inspired) , hit the weekend street markets , hit a theater production, etc etc

janisj

>>can take a picnic to the Palazzo Pitti & Giardini Boboli<<

Not that easy in late November.

PatrickC

Didnt think of Florence at all. I suppose it is because Venice is well known compare to Florence. Might think about it and adjust the trip. Thanks.

artsnletters

I don't think you need to add anywhere else. You still need to cut back what you have, or add another week, just to see what's already on your plate. Florence is indeed tempting, but so are dozens of other places you won't have time for. Berlin! Krakow! Switzerland! Santorini! Istanbul! Stick with what you have and just plan on coming back to see "the rest." It's the only way to be happy with the trip you can have this time.

PatrickC

You are right, artsnletters, I would add another week to the trip and seek views on it. I was contemplating either Berlin or Munich but settled for Munich. Any suggestions?

AlysonRR

I went to Europe as a child - my brother and I were about the same age as your children. We took it slow/fast. The slow is that in our 6 weeks we mostly spent time in England and Germany. The fast is that we were in a campervan and we moved almost every day, traveling through ten countries and seeing a bit of their attractions but with no real connection other than the quality of the campground and the difference in the groceries Mom used to make our meals. I came away feeling that I somewhat understood England and Germany, and to a lesser extent, Austria, but none of the other countries particularly.

That said, some of our favorite family moments were during the traveling:
-- made-up games in the campervan
-- listening to dad swear while driving on the left in a right-steer van and then on the autobahn in a campervan [LOL]
-- groaning as mom pointed out yet another group of cows/sheep/goats
-- riding on trains and buses (we live in a rural area)

And the daily living:
-- going to shops for food and seeing and eating different kinds of groceries
-- eating in pubs/cafes/bierstubes
-- sometimes trying to figure out what to eat and drink (we all remember the day dad and my brother drank from the "Kein Trinkenwasser" fountain at Neuschawnstein, thankfully with no repercussions)
-- different toilets and toilet paper
-- cool playground styles
-- meeting Europeans at the campgrounds
-- going to local stuff (a fete in England, Celtic games in Scotland, concerts in Austria, cathedral service in London, swimming and volksmarch in Germany)

I will admit to noticing the scenery (though not many livestock made an impact after the first 10 fields) and the residential architecture (ditto: once we had seen one town in a region, the rest were 'been there, done that') as well as major architecture (we only saw about five more castles and cathedrals than I would have wanted to see, so probably a good balance ;-) ).

Anyway, my advice would be to spend the most time in the countries, and on the sights, you would most like your children to remember. Regardless, it is a trip they will remember all their lives (it was ~40 years ago for me!) and will inform any other trip they make to Europe later in life. Have fun!