amy_zena

Italy is really cracking down on immigration, and it is affecting tourists as well. You may want to follow the advice in this article...or run the risk of a possibly spoiled vacation...

ATTENTION FOREIGN STUDENTS AND TURISTS: THIS SUMMER YOU ARE AT RISK OF SACTIONS AND ARREST
Especially during the summer cities like Florence, Rome and Venice become full of foreign tourists and students who travel without a visa. If you come from countries such as the United States, Canada, Australia, Brasil, and Argentina, you do not need a visa for short stays (less than 90 days). Many of you don't know that your vacation can easily become a nightmare.
This summer, foreign students and tourists will risk deportation and fines up to 10.000 Euros for the crime of illegal immigration, recently introduced by the Italian Government. If you do not carry your passport with you, you could be held up to 24 hours without the right to a lawyer, prosecuted and jailed.

If you are a foreign tourist or student, you MUST do the following:

1. If you arrive in Italy from another Schengen country and your passport is thus not stamped by Italian custom authorities, you must go to the local police headquarter (questura) and declare your presence within 8 working days (Sundays excluded) since your arrival. Without this declaration, your status becomes that of an illegal alien. As such you will be subjected to a fine up to 10.000 Euros and deportation. If a police officer or other public official asks for such documents and you don't have it on you, you will also risk a one-year jail term and an additional fine of 2.000 Euros. Therefore, if you intend to stay in Italy more than 8 working days, you should always plan to spend at least one morning at the local police headquarter. Otherwise, it is advisable to limit your visit to no longer than 8 working days.

2. You should always carry with you your passport and the receipt of the declaration of presence. If the police or other public official (for example, ticket collector on trains and buses, ER doctor, etc.) asks for such documents and you don't have them on you, you may be held up to 24 hours for identification without the right to legal representation. You may also be prosecuted and convicted to a one-year jail term. If you are an illegal alien because you have not declared your presence to the local police headquarter within 8 working days, your incarceration may be longer because of your illegal status, an aggravating circumstance introduced last year by the Italian Government.

http://www.aduc.it/dyn/immigrazione/arti.php?id=260217

adrienne

<< you arrive in Italy from another Schengen country and your passport is thus not stamped by Italian custom authorities, you must go to the local police headquarter (questura) and declare your presence within 8 working days (Sundays excluded) since your arrival. >>

I thought hotels registered their guests passports with the police so this did not have to be done by the passport holder.

I wonder if the Italian police are ramped up for the onslaught of tourists who will be lining up to register, especially in large cities.

Alec

This has been the rule for some few years but doesn't affect the majority of tourists, as hotels and other accommodation providers do this automatically for them. Only those staying in private accommodation, like those rented directly from owners or with friends, will have to do it in person at the questura.
As for the need to carry passport at all times, you are most unlikely to be asked to produce your passport in the street by the police or other officials if you obviously look like tourists. Many just carry a photocpy of relevat pages and leave the original in the hotel safe.

amy_zena

"As for the need to carry passport at all times, you are most unlikely to be asked to produce your passport in the street by the police or other officials if you obviously look like tourists."

Yes this was the case in the past. However, now they seem to be stopping anyone who looks foreign, including tourists. They used to only check documents of the foreign street market vendors, but not anymore. I don't leave my house anymore without my Italian identity card and permit of stay.

"This has been the rule for some few years but doesn't affect the majority of tourists, as hotels and other accommodation providers do this automatically for them."

When I have stayed in hotels, they just give me my passport back. They don't give me special stamp or receipt or document stating that they have registered me at the local questura.

zeppole

I still believe that the hassles of losing a passport in Italy outweigh the threats of what happens if you can't produce your actual passport if asked for it. Carrying a photocopy strikes me as the wiser course.

amy_zena

The hotel does not file the Declaration of Presence (dichiarazione di presenza), tourists must do this themselves. (If you get a stamp at an Italian airport, then you don't need to do this.) The hotel is required to report a list of guests within 48 hours, which is what they do when they ask for documents. But they do not file the Declaration of Presence.

The following is from the U.S. State Department. You can follow the law or not, it's your choice. Usually when I visit a foreign country, I like to follow the local laws. But that's just me.

"Americans staying or traveling within Italy for less than three (3) months are considered non-residents. This includes persons on vacation, those taking professional trips, students registered at an authorized school, or persons performing research or independent study.

As of May 2007, under Italian law (http://www.camera.it/parlam/leggi/07068l.htm), all non-residents are required to complete a dichiarazione di presenza (declaration of presence). Tourists arriving from a non-Schengen-country (e.g. the United States) should obtain a stamp in their passport at the airport on the day of arrival. This stamp is considered the equivalent of the declaration of presence. Tourists arriving from a Schengen-country (e.g. France) must request the declaration of presence form from a local police office (commissariato di zona), police headquarters (questura) or their place of stay (e.g hotel, hostel, campgrounds) and submit the form to the police or to their place of stay within eight business days of arrival. It is important that applicants keep a copy of the receipt issued by the Italian authorities. Failure to complete a declaration of presence is punishable by expulsion from Italy. Additional information may be obtained (in Italian only) from the Portale Immigrazione at http://www.portaleimmigrazione.it and the Polizia di Stato at http://www.poliziadistato.it/pds/ps/.../soggiorno.htm.

Americans staying in Italy for more than three (3) months are considered residents and must obtain a permesso di soggiorno (permit of stay). This includes Americans who will work or transact business and persons who want to simply live in Italy. An application "kit" for the permesso di soggiorno may be requested from one of 14,000 national post offices (Poste Italiane). The kit must then be returned to one of 5,332 designated Post Office acceptance locations. It is important that applicants keep a copy of the receipt issued by the post office. Additional information may be obtained from an Italian immigration website online at http://www.portaleimmigrazione.it/. Within 20 days of receiving the permit to stay in Italy, Americans must go to the local Vital Statistics Bureau (Anagrafe of the Comune) to apply for residency. It generally takes one to two months to receive the certificate of residence (Certificato di Residenza)."

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1146.html

amy_zena

I found this statement on the Polizia di Stato website. Now it seems that tourists staying at a hotel may not need to go to the Questura.

"For foreigners staying in a hotel, evidence of their presence is the registration form submitted to the hotel management and signed by the foreign guests on arrival. The hotel will provide a copy of this form to the foreign guest who can show it to police officers, if requested."

http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/10618

J62

Thanks for the retraction. Good to know the info you posted originally is overblown hype.

Alec

I also have great doubt over the validity of the rule to obtain declaration of presence for EU citizens (both Schengen and non-Schengen) - they run counter to EU requirement that there should be no obstacle to, or extra requirement over and above that of native citizens, about the freedom of movement and labour. Having to register and obtain a receipt within such a short space of time (8 business days), which must be carried on person at all times, will surely contravene EU law (which takes precedence over Italian law) and should be declared invalid.
Italy is free to enact rules governing non-EU, non-EEA and Swiss citizens, such as Americans, Australians etc. Even the requirement to obtain residence permit over a stay of 3 months is now being dropped in other EU countries (e.g. France, Spain), though you can get it if you want to. Your EU passport is deemed to be proof of your legal status in any EU member state, and surely Italy cannot impose unilateral requirement in contravention of EU law.

Alec

The OP should have made it clear that the rule about declaration of presence and residence permit only applies to non-EU, non-EEA and non-Swiss citizens. And as the vast majority of them stay in commercial accommodation like hotels, hostels, camp sites etc who submit details to the authorities, there is nothing for individual traveller to do. Even getting a receipt from their hotel seems superfluous - all they need to do is to say which hotel they are staying at, and the authorities, if they want to, can check directly with them.
Personal application for declaration of presence is only needed for those staying in privately-arranged accommodation or staying with friends and relatives.
Hardly a bombshell!

amy_zena

Alec, I was under the impression that this applies to non-eu citizens.

J62, This "overblown hype" has been published by several government agencies (both American and Italian).

The only reason I am posting this is because things have changed a bit recently here in Italy. They are randomly stopping people and asking for documents. It happened to me recently, and I'm a blond American. (I've been here 6 years, and I had never been randomly asked for documents by the police on the street, until a few weeks ago.) As terrible (racist) as it sounds, these random checks used to be targeted only at street vendors from Africa, Romania, Albania, etc, and not towards American or European tourists.

Only trying to help avoid possibly spoiling some Americans' holidays in Italy this summer by taking some simple steps that are prescribed by Italian law.

amy_zena

Before someone points out that Romania and Albania are in Europe...I'm editing it to "western european tourists"

Jeez, this is the only forum that doesn't have an "edit" option...che palle.

Also, Alec...I would think if you are an EU citizen, you would already know that you can come and go as you please in Italy...you would only have to apply for residenza.

I didn't write either of the articles I posted...I only posted them for info and to share what I have personally experienced and witnessed recently in Italy regarding immigration and authorities checking documents. Read the articles and take what you want from them. If you have a problem with either of the articles, contact the U.S. State Department, ADUC, and the Polizia di Stato and inform them of your complaints.

Buona giornata.

logos999

So far, regulations were that EU nationals had to be registered with the police 24h after their arrival, if they stayed at a commercial place like a hotel or campground. This was usually done by the hotel.
The reason for that regulation was to fight tax fraud.
If you did not stay at such a place, you have 3 months before you need to register.
Has anything changed?

jetsetj

With this title,
I thought it was going to be about staying out of this persons ways at gelato stands...

J62

This "overblown hype" has been published by several government agencies (both American and Italian).

Ok. You have a point. For the 0.0001% of tourists who are not staying in a hotel or other commercial estabilishment that takes care of the registration this is a valid issue.

For the remaining 99.9999% of travelers this warning is alarmist and irrelevant.

And I'd suggest that a lot of what gets published by gov't agencies (American, Italian, or other) is dribble anyway.

julia1

'Overblown hype' seems like an accurate description of this alarmist post. If you look and act and dress like an illegal immigrant/refugee, particularly from North Africa, you're going to have problems.

I just returned from 2 weeks in the south of Italy, Lazio and Campania. Naples, Sorrento, Rome, Civita Castellana, Viterbo, Bagnaia, Vignanello, Capri, Ischia, Amalfi, Ravello, Anzio, Nettuno, etc, etc, etc. Places both on and off the tourist trail.

I had 21 Americans with me, doing things singly or in twos and threes, on their own as well as following me around as a group looking at gardens and interesting places. Not one single instance of being stopped by the authorities, no questioning, no requests for passports or identification, no hassles.

amy_zena

Whoa. Let's get some facts straight.

1) I was asked by the polizia about 2 weeks ago for identification and what my status is here in Italy (tourist or resident or student, etc.) I was then asked to show documents proving that this was my legal status here in Italy. On this occasion, I did not "look and act and dress like an illegal immigrant/refugee, particularly from North Africa."

2) Italian law requires extracomunitari to complete a dichiarazione di presenza (declaration of presence). (See May 2007 law description above.)

3) The hotels do not complete a dichiarazione di presenza for their guests. I'm not sure what you mean by the hotel "takes care of the registration." Hotel registration? Of course it completes hotel registration. But it does not complete the declaration of presence with the questura.

4) The Polizia di Stato has stated that in lieu of completing a dichiarazione di presenza, they will accept a copy of the registration form submitted to the hotel management and signed by the foreign guests as evidence of presence.

These are the facts. These are the laws. Follow them or don't follow them.

logos999

> But it does not complete the declaration of presence with the questura.
So what has changed? Given point 3. and 4. nothing has changed for the guest, or has it?

amy_zena

Nothing has changed provided that all extracomunitari students and tourists complete a dichiarazione di presenza or those staying at a hotel carry a copy of their hotel registration with them in case they are stopped by authorities and asked for this document.

If tourists are already taking these steps, then no laws are being broken and there is no problem. However it didn't sound like this was the case from the previous posts.

This topic is currently often discussed among expats living here in Italy. Immigration (and lega nord) is also a "hot topic" in the news here in Italy at the moment. I guess I could see where it wouldn't concern Americans coming over for a 2 week vacation and then going right back to the States. I just thought I'd post the info in case it was useful for those planning on travelling to Italy (which apparently it has not been). It's not like I am posting opinions about Italy in this thread, I am posting current Italian laws about entry requirements that affect tourists. Che palle.

nytraveler

This is all nonsense - just like those "sactions". Hotels, B&Bs, hostels, etc always register their guests with the police. They've been doing it since the year dot and this has not changed. There is no need for you to go to any police station. If you are a tourist with no visa required and are staying in an apartment you, technially, should register with the police. But, unless you are staying for more than 8 days in one place this law isn't an issue.

The purpose is to find/deport illegal immigrants - not harass tourists or legitimate students with appropriate visas. So, as long as you're not overstaying a visa - nothing to worry about.