pitstopguy

I'm lloking for any ideas or suggestions on what to do for my trip.

I know that I want to go to Europe in the fall, around the end of November or early December. I really would like to see Paris, London, and Rome, but only have about 16 days to do this all. The only thing I know is that I would be flying out from Orange County, CA.

I'm thinking that I will go straight to Paris. The thing is, I don't want to be tied down to a schedule. I want to be able to leave and head for a different city once I'm done doing a "quick" view of the city. I don't really wish to take in the amosphere for a long period of time. I just want to do a getaway on my own.

Any idea where I should start off at? Leave from to go home? Should I use the rail system to get around. Is the Eurail pass ideal for me?I don't really have to see London, but it would be nice. Also, I'm on a budget, I only have $8000 for EVERYTHING. Please point me in a direction.

Thanks

faredolce

Even in November, you are going to need some hotel reservations or some sort of loose itinerary. It kind of sounds like you want the freedom of someone who is backpacking their way around and staying at hostels, but you have a good budget to work with, so it would be shame not to enjoy some amenities.

Since you are flying from Orange County, CA, your journey time is going to be long. And you have a wide swath to cut across Europe as well. Have you considered just London and Paris, or just Paris and Rome? Will you be traveling by train from city to city, or are you considering flying from one country to another?

My advice is to have a 50/50 experience in terms of freedom of choice. Pick your two or three "base" cities, make your accomodation arrangements, and then you can be loosey-goosey when it comes to day trips and explorations from those cities.

faredolce

Whoops. I hit "post" too soon. The last thing I was going to say was that you could always take your chances and play it all by ear, but arrive well-equipped with lists of accomodation alternatives. For me, where to sleep is the thing that determines any itinerary. I have several friends who have done the "no ties" type of traveling, but that always involved never knowing where they would sleep that night. I guess that could be exciting, or extremely unsettling...

Betsy

Re Eurail pass vs. point-to-point tickets: When you've figured out your itinerary, go to www.railsaver.com and enter the info, being sure to highlight "only if it saves money." If you're just traveling (in some order) to Paris, London, Rome, you probably will save money by buying tickets instead of a pass. Also, try to obtain an "open jaw" airline fare, arriving in one city and leaving from another, so you don't have to backtrack.

I'd prefer to do a combo of only two of the cities you've named, such as Paris and London or Paris and Rome, but I like to "smell the roses," while you may want to cover more ground. Remember that sixteen days becomes 14 when you subtract the days you'll be flying, and then subtract a day each to move between two or cities, and you're down to 12 or 13 actual trip days. However, if you decide to do all three cities, you could fly into London and out of Rome, for example on an open jaw itinerary.

Try to plan at least a loose itinerary, and then come back to the board for further suggestions.

rex

I submit that no way you want a rail pass, but the railsaver.com tip given abov is a sound way of re-affirming that to yourself. Check www.whichbudget.com for fights between PAR and ROM - - half the cost of train, and one tenth the time cost. Then train your heart away in Italy, if you insist on making each day's schedule one day in advance. Using ordinary point-to-point tickets at a fraction of the ost of any rail pass.

Fly into Paris, fly home from Italy. Go to London another time, when it doesn't get dark at 4:30 in the afternoon (though, of course, it won't be all that different in France or Italy).

Best wishes,

Rex

mjs

I think you can do London, Paris and Rome in 16 days to get a decent experience of three major European cities. Given your preferences and decent budget I might propose a trip which might go somehing like his: Fly LAX to London non stop and stay ~ 3 to 5 days. Can almost guarantee overcast/rainy weather. Fly via one of the inexpensive carriers to Rome. Weather might be nice in Rome and there is possibility of seeing the sun while you tour the city. When you are ready to leave Rome you can either do a overnight train to Paris or fly.
Return to LAX from Paris where the weather during your trip might be anything from cool and sunny to rainy. This itinerary breaks up the weather possibilities. Paris/Rome/London might also work well. Would not use a rail pass. Need to pick suitable hotels which allow you to change dates without penalty. Personally I would
make an itinerary that divides up your time to 4 to 5 days in each city as each of these cities IMHO requires at least that amount of time but if you want flexability you will pay with uncertainty as regards to trains, flights, hotels etc. I would rather spend my time enjoying each city rather than having to plan my next move but everyone does travel differently.

Nina66

Since your agenda appears to be wide open at this time, my advise would be to go to a large book store, Barnes and Noble etc.. and pull lots of books off of the shelf, have a cup of coffee, and read, read, read Fodors, Frommers, Rick Steves, Lonely Planet, Let's Go Europe, to name the major guides.

See which ones meet your budget and hopes for this trip. You may start out wanting to see Paris, London and Rome and then decide to stay in one country touring around, or possibly only two, maybe all three. Know what is available and then make your choice.

I personally like to know where I will be spending the night, but on occasion, we have gotten off of the train and booked at the tourist office at the station. Most of the hotels have been very nice.

If you decide not to attempt all three cites, although that is more than possible, you will be _forced_ to return to Europe again ;-).

If your name Pitstop means what it says, and if you are interested in vintage European cars, or American muscle cars (Le Mans Museum) there are lots of car museums in Europe. We've seen quite a few all over France.

IMHO, the main thing is researching what is available and doing what catches your eye. $8,000 is a very healthy budget for two+ weeks.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your trip.

ira

Hi P,

>I want to be able to leave and head for a different city once I'm done doing a "quick" view of the city.<

Day 1 Fly to London
Day 2 See London
Day 3 Fly LGW to Rome CIA
Day 4 See Rome
Day 5 See Rome
Day 6 Train to Florence
Day 7 Train to Venice
Day 8 Fly to Amsterdam
Day 9 Amsterdam
Day 10 Train to Brussels
Day 11 Train to Bruges
Day 12 Train to Paris
Day 13 See Paris
Day 14 Train to Chartres and return
Day 15 See Paris
Day 16 Fly home

See www.whichbudget.com for flights

See http://plannerint.b-rail.be/bin/quer...n?L=profi&
for train schedules

Look forward to your trip report.

Betsy

Topping for pitstopguy, a new poster who may not know how to access his posts. There's so much good info here, so hope he sees this!

Eloise

I think Ira is pulling your leg; one day to both get to and see Florence or Venice is totally insane.

Anyway, you only mentioned Paris, London and Rome. You can get a good idea of the three cities in 16 days.

I would fly open jaw, starting with London, then Paris, and returning from Rome; you'd be going south as it gets colder.

If you don't want to be tied down, only reserve for your first night in London. I can't imagine that you would be unable to find hotel rooms (although it may take time...) in late November or early December. It does become more dicey, though, over the Christmas period.

And if you don't want to be tied down, you also cannot fly with the budget airlines that have to be booked ahead of time to get good rates. Go to
www.railsaver.com, put in your itinerary and click on "Only if it saves me money" to see if a rail pass would be more economical than point-to-point tickets.

Art_Vandelay

pitstopguy has obviously gone for a long pit stop, but, for the sake of it, I would just tell faredolce that he is a bit paranoid. If one can speak of a relatively low season in big European cities, it is the period our intrepid traveler has chosen. So, yes, he can play by ear, enquire at his arrival at the airport/station, or better, use the European version of Priceline (priceline.co.uk) to get super last minute deals (or lastminute.fr/it/co.uk)

pitstopguy

I'm back. Getting used to navigating the site when posting. Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm narrowing down my ideas for the trip. I've decided that I will either be traveling at the end of November for about 10 days or will go the beginning/middle of December for 15 days. I really don't think I will heading out to London on this trip. I'm pretty set on arriving to Paris and departing from Rome, but I still don't know how long I want to stay in the city.

I know that flying to Rome from Pars would be quiker, but would it be easier to purchase tickets for a train rather than heading out to an airport? Last minute plane travel usually doesn't yield great savings price-wise. Also, besides Fodors, I was wondering if there are any good websites that have listings of things to do in cities? I think I would like to maybe see a museum or two, especially one that deals with automobiles. As for hotels, I'll probably reserve a place for two nights in Paris and go from there. Would I be safe in doing this? I'll have access to the internet and can reserve online.

I just got done checking the typical weather out in Paris for November/December; it's COLD. Any heads up you guys can point out for traveling at this time of year in Paris? I'm not used to weather below 70*.

Thanks

faredolce

Sorry if I seemed paranoid, pitstopguy. I thought you were only considering those three cities. I just like to know where I am sleeping... Either way, it sounds like you are going to have a great time!

I haven't been in Paris, but I have been in northern areas of Italy, as well as Rome in late November, and it has ranged from mild to nippy. Bring lots of layers! I hate traveling with a heavy winter coat, so I always bring long underwear to layer under things.

And I am a girl, Art. Maybe a paranoid one, but a girl for sure.

Christina

I've never used one of those general Eurailpasses that cover a lot of countries, but I think they can be convenient if you really like to move around a lot. You would have to figure out your itinerary and possible countries some, it gets complicated.

However, your budget is really large, it seems to me. I never spend anywhere near that amount for two weeks travel in Europe. Even if you spend about $1500 for air and train (which is probably high -- I'm thinking maybe air around $700 in that time period, and I know the Europass (Eural Selectpass) for unlimited 10 days train in three contiguous countries is about $500). You could do France plus Italy and Spain, for example. That sounds pleasant at that time of year, although I know Italy and Spain are opposite directions. London is a problem on those passes, I think, England usually isn't included.

IN any case, even if you spent that much on air plus train, you'd have around $400-500 a day for everything else. That is huge. I'd cut back on that budget and save the money for another trip.

Nina66

La Defense (outskirts of Paris) had some fabulous cars a few years back - are they still there?

Also as I mentioned above, Le Mans, has a great collection of American muscle cars.

Probably the best one that we have ever been to, the Schlump Museum aka: French National Auto Museum in Mullhouse, France near the Swiss border. Every type of Bugati imagineable, in a wonderful setting. Great history to the museum itself. Well worth a one day detour or pitstop.

Near Lyon, the Henri Malfors (sp) Auto Museum, has a wonderful and varied collection of cars, bicycles and motorcycles, all set in a beautiful chateau overlooking a river.

Does anyone know if the Renault Showroom on the Champ-Elysees still has vintage cars displayed?

And there's Italy, but that a whole other trip - Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Mazaratti (sp), and Lamborghini, factories and museums, all around Milan, Modena, and Turin.

My spelling is terrible, but my memories are glorious.

Nina

ira

Hi pit,

10-15 days is excellent for visiting Paris and Rome or Paris and London.

The cheap air fare from Paris to rome is on www.ryanair.com and is not convenient since you have to leave from Beauvais and arrive at Ciampino.

You might want to consider 5 days in Paris, fly www.myair.com from Paris Orly to Venice Marco Polo - 3 days, train to Florence - 3 days, train to Rome, fly home from Rome.

Train schedules are at www.trenitalia.com

>..typical weather out in Paris for November/December; it's COLD.<

Welcome to the real world.

BTilke

If you want to see cars, then you should definitely build a day trip to Brussels into your Paris plans (only 1.5 hours away). Brussels has the AutoWorld museum, home to over 400 vintage cars.
www.autoworld.be
While you are in Brussels, also go try some of the beer for which Belgium is famous. If you wanted to make it a really long day trip, catch one of the earlier trains to Brussels (leaving Gare du Nord about 8 am), head up to Autoworld, do that for two hours, take the metro a few stops down to Gare Centrale, catch a 1 hour train to Brugge, spend the afternoon in Brugge, then go back to Brussels, getting off at the Gare du Midi for your evening Thalys back to Paris. You'd be back in time for dinner and you'd have seen one of the best auto collections in Europe as well as one of the continent's most beautiful medieval cities.

Cicerone

Please bear in mind when planning a day of sightseeing that in the cities you are planning to visit, in late November and early December the day light hours are short, you will have days in London and Paris esp when the sun won’t rise until 8:30 and will be setting by 3:30 pm. The lack of daylight hours may really cut into your outdoor sightseeing time. While you would be safe, it’s not a lot of fun to wander around a place like the Forum or the gardens of Versailles in semi-darkness. You have to plan your days carefully and do outdoor activities in the middle of the day.

It does of course give you more hours to enjoy things like the Christmas light displays at Harrods, etc, but many people are surprised at how very short the days are as they don’t realize how far north most of Europe is compared to places like the US.

Art_Vandelay

faredolce, please apologize for my macho bias! (I should know it, I would guess that 90 % of posters here are female).

pitstop, a good way of mixing cars and going to Italy would be to fly EasyJet from Paris Orly to Turin, where the Lingotto, the legendary Fiat factory from the 20s with the race track on the roof, has been converted into a super design convention center with a museum of the automobile. From there on you could train to Rome. Turin is a beautiful, aristocratic city, that will host the winter Olympics three months after you visit it, if you do (Feb 06). Otherwise, EasyJet also fly from Orly to Pisa, which is closer to Rome, and allows you to visit Tuscany.

I agree with Cicerone, daylight (or rather the scarcity of it) can be an issue at this time of the year in Northern Europe. Not as serious as he mentions though: early December, it's dark between 16h30 and 17h00 in Paris (the hours you are mentioning are London's). Of course, the further South you go, the more light you get. In Rome you should gain one hour's daylight over Paris.