Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Multi-country Europe and Morocco trip guidance.. Thank you!

Multi-country Europe and Morocco trip guidance.. Thank you!

Old Jan 15th, 2018, 09:36 AM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Multi-country Europe and Morocco trip guidance.. Thank you!

Hello all and thank you very much in advance.... Looking for any guidance and thoughts about our itinerary.... and apologize about the length of the post in advance

Husband and I travelling, late 40s/30s, active, love outdoor activities/or just seeing landscapes, architecture, history (but selective with museums), hidden gems, adventures in general, live in Florida, and still at a time where we don't mind moving around a lot when we travel. I have been to Europe before, this is hubby's first time.We are going on a multi country trip in Europe and Morocco... we are on a budget, taking a leap on a "dream/stop waiting" kinda thing and could really use any thoughts on this big undertaking. I will be posting separate questions per country/city, but in this post I am trying to finalize the order of places and the overall picture. We have the flights from US to Europe and back as we stumbled onto great offers ( I think?) at the end of last year. Below are the current plans. We are definitely renting a car in Ireland, France and Germany.

4/18/18 Flight Fort Lauderdale - London
4//19/18 - 4/25/18 England
4/25/18 - 5/9/18 Ireland/Northern Ireland (In & Out of Dublin)
5/9/18 - 5/26/18 France (In through Paris, Out of Nice)
5/26/18 - 6/14/18 Italy (In through Venice, Out of Rome)
6/14/18 - 6/26/18 Greece (In through Santorini, Out of Athens)
6/26/18 - 7/4/18 Spain (In through Madrid, Out of Tarifa)
7/4/18 - 7/13/18 Morocco (In through Tangier ferry, Out of Marrakesh)
7/14/18 - 7/17/18 Barcelona
7/17/18 - 7/20/18 Prague
7/20/18 - 7/26/18 Germany (In through Dresden and driving through Bavaria)
7/26/18 - 7/31/18 Switzerland
7/31/18 - 8/6/18 Germany (Berlin and perhaps Cologne)
8/6/18 - 8/12/18 Lofoten Islands
8/13/18 Flight Bodo - Fort Lauderdale

I had initially thought about doing England, Ireland, France, Switzerland, Spain, Morocco, Italy, Greece, Prague, Germany and Lofoten islands (in that order), but this would put me in Italy and Greece in July, and upon reading I thought I should change that. We do realize that now we'll be in Morocco in July and we know it'll be pretty hot. I also thought it would be good to move Switzerland.. I had it initially after France, but moved it to be in between our Germany stop as we are definitely driving in Bavaria (still need to decide if having a car in Switzerland is a deal breaker as I see comments pro and con on the subject)

Trying to finalize transportation between countries.. so many options and I am trying to balance weather and when things are more expensive. I realize moving so much augments the expense, actually been saving miles for years for this as we keep waiting for the right time to escape on our adventure time-wise and money-wise, so have about enough to cover flights with budget airlines at least between countries. Also conscious that things don't always go as planned and we might have to change plans at the last minute... Do any of you have any thoughts about the order of places in the itinerary? Any tips? ANYTHING you can comment might help in catching one of the million things I am not seeing

Thank you in advance for your time and kindness!
travellover36 is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 10:38 AM
  #2  
BKD
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Morocco and Spain will be miserably hot. I would go there in the beginning. Actually, the trip makes my head spin. Why not pick a few countries and really get to know them? You're young. You'll go back. We did three weeks just in Morocco and we felt like we barely scratched the surface. My advice is to rethink. My apologies if that's not what you want to hear.
BKD is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 10:47 AM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We used train and bus when traveling in Morocco. But we landed in Marrakesh and flew out of Marrakesh. We took the train from Marrakesh to Meknčs, then the train from Meknčs to Fez. From Fez we took day trips by bus to Azrou and Sefrou. We returned to Marrakesh by taking a long distance bus that ran along the base of the Atlas mountains.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca...870770847/show
Michael is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 11:31 AM
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,139
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
This is definitely a trip where you'll want to move south to north to take advantage of the weather. Ireland & England are iffy weather-wise in April and, as BKD says, the southern-most places will be hot in summer. So start at the southern end and finish in the north. I think it'll make a big difference. I also agree with the suggestion that paring down the locations will make a nicer trip, less tiring which I've found on long trips can really impact one's enjoyment.

So, Morocco, then Spain, Italy, Greece, north to Germany, etc, then England/Ireland, end as you have it Norway.
MmePerdu is online now  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 11:40 AM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"we are on a budget"

Everyone's on a budget, even Russian petrogarchs or Bill Gates. The issue is what is yours. All the moving from place to place (11 countries or so, two reentries into previous stops) will eat up your budget. And daily expenses in England, France, Switzerland (especially) and Norway are going to be high. With all this hopping about, you're going to be spending more than you think.

Make sure your math is right, you're thisclose to too much Schengen. You have about 117 days total and I'm thinking about 87 days in Schengen zone, which means you have little to no wiggle room on adding sites on the continent or subtracting from Morocco/UK/Ireland.

You'll be lucky if it's only "pretty hot" in Morocco. More likely to be Phoenix/Death Valley level. And Tangier is an industrial port city, you're going to either want to leave soon after arriving or consider going wherever you go in Spain and flying to someplace in Morocco.
BigRuss is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 01:58 PM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello all and thank you.

Thank you for the suggestion about the amount of places.. will go back and see about trimming.

Big Russ... yeah you are right about everybody having a budget, and certainly moving around so much does add up... I am trying to see if I can make it work with what I have for transportation and taking advantage of the low budget airline tickets.
I do have an excel sheet with the days, you are correct on your calculations, so I know I definitely can't add any days on the Schengen area... depending on transportation I might even add a day to Morocco to compensate since I already have the flights from/to US.

Weather wise it would be a better idea to start South and move up , but we already have flights FLL-London, Bodo-FLL, and Dublin-Paris... maybe poor planning at the beginning, but saw great deals on Norwegian Air and just decided to go for it once and for all. So... Since July is problematic on both of my itinerary options.. which one would you say is less worse? Spain and Morocco or Italy and Greece in July? My thinking was that we would have more go go go days in Italy and Athens as far as "touristy" things to do...? We'll definitely hit more museums in Italy than in Spain, and my husband kite boards, so we are having down time in Tarifa and Essaouira for him to try to do that. I was thinking about the ferry Tarifa-Tangier just for arrival and heading to Chefchaouen right away.

Another thing was that I started looking at different flights to see what trajectories would come up less expensive, and I actually found cheaper Greece flights in June... for example, Rome/Santorini 70E and Athens/Madrid 92E. All the other flights to/from Greece that I saw were 130E and over to various of our destinations around June/July. I split Spain because the lowest ticket I found out of Morocco was Marrakesh-Barcelona for 50E..... I hope my perception of the prices is not incorrect...

Sorry about the length... I might tend to "talk" too much... but maybe it's better with more info? Spain and Morocco or Italy and Greece in July?

Thank you so so much!
travellover3 is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 02:15 PM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,139
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
Regarding flights already booked, sometimes for those of us on budgets it remains worthwhile to "eat" a mistake and correct, if it means an altogether better itinerary. In your case the only problem I see is the Dublin-Paris flight, probably not terribly expensive and not worth sticking with a less than optimum plan. On arrival in London, continue on to Morocco, I've done it myself, plenty of flights. You'll then be on track for better weather for the entire trip.
MmePerdu is online now  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 02:34 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,609
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Agree completely with MmePerdu, start in the south. Fly on to Morocco from London.

Cannot easily tell from your post how long you are staying and how you are transiting. Suggest reposting as:

Arrive London 4/18 xxx hours. X nights.
Wherever to Dublin arrive... etc.
thursdaysd is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 03:34 PM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 550
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another vote for Mme Perdu suggestion of flying from London to Morocco. Forget about the Dublin to Paris flight.
ToujoursVoyager is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 07:03 PM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well.... guys... lots to think about then. Ok, so back to the board... In the spirit of not making my posts too long I did not mention that I have accommodation in Paris for those days at some acquaintance's place... I'll find out if the schedule is workable on that as it does represent savings. The other thing is that my husband kite boards, so we have some down time in Tarifa, Barcelona, and Essouira so that he can do that... I am not sure about the wind earlier in the year.

I do have a question right now....I moved things around on my sheet quickly and changing the order as suggested to England, Ireland, Morocco, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, etc, puts me in Greece (Athens, Santorini, Paros) in July... I am assuming you guys think this month is better for Greece weather wise, but what about prices in general?

Thank you very much!
travellover3 is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2018, 10:02 PM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,813
Received 26 Likes on 5 Posts
I have to agree about the whole trip making one's head spin. You're moving about cultures and continents and currencies at a pretty good clip, and will have to pack for a variety of temperatures and climates. However, it is your holiday and you know your travel style.

Just to reinforce the south to north itinerary, we were in Marrakesh in late May last year. Our arrival temperature was 40ēC; our "coolest" day of the holiday reached only 37ēC. Dry heat or not, it was rough. We have also been to Corfu, Greece in late May, and temperatures averaged around 30ēC. Last October we took a city break to Athens; the average cost of lunch for the three of us, with two starters and typically a half-carafe of local wine, ran between €30 and €50 at mid-range restaurants.

I hope this is helpful. Good Luck!
fourfortravel is offline  
Old Jan 16th, 2018, 05:09 AM
  #12  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,609
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You still have England and Ireland at the beginning. The advice was to start in Morocco.
thursdaysd is offline  
Old Jan 16th, 2018, 11:47 AM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Trains are great just about everywhere except Ireland which begs a car rental. for a fix on European trains and planning a train trip check these IMO super informative sources: www.bahn.de/en - best site I've seen to quickly get train schedules all over Europe; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; BETS-European Rail Experts.

Booking trains early can yield huge discounts but those are generally train-specific and can't be changed nor refunded so booking in stone -fine for most. But if taking lots of trains all over Europe strongly look into Eurail Global Flexipasses - info at sites above.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Jan 16th, 2018, 12:01 PM
  #14  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,139
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
It's impossible to tell whether you aren't understanding the advice or whether your mind is made up, despite evidence that the current plan is not good. I think the panel is pretty much agreed that it would serve you to:
1. Arrive in London and fly directly to the southernmost destination, Morocco.
2. Visit the southern Mediterranean places that will be hot in summer (Spain, Greece, Italy).
3. Move north, France, Central Europe.
4. England & Ireland, then Norway.
MmePerdu is online now  
Old Jan 17th, 2018, 06:39 PM
  #15  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello,
Maybe a mixture of misunderstanding and me not giving all the information apparently... definitely not being stubborn. I thought I had mentioned that I had the flight from London to Dublin as well, and since it was only mentioned to let the one from Dublin - Paris go, moving South right after landing just didn't click I guess... you guys did write it but my brain did not process it correctly.. so silly! Of course doing it that way makes sense with what you all were trying to tell me. I worked on switching the dates and it does look like this new order makes the weather we'll experience flow quite nicely.

I appreciate so much your help... it helps so much to see things from other perspectives. I did not mention - to not lengthen my posts soo much - that my husband kite boards and so the wind also plays a factor here... I'm learning to post things correctly too with all the relevant info
I will finish the new itinerary and see if we can make the nice temperature work with at least some of the windy places we were going to hit.
MmePerdu.. thank you again for taking the time to clarify more than once.. really appreciate it.

I have the feeling I need to get the plane tickets between countries asap as I am afraid prices will go up, so I'll work on that in the next couple of days and move onto finalize itineraries per destination. Will post separately, so thank you in advance if I encounter your advise in other posts

Thank you!
travellover3 is offline  
Old Jan 17th, 2018, 07:16 PM
  #16  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are listing days in 2 places. I realize that is the day you depart one place and arrive in the next, so it is not really a day in either. It is a mistake to list things that way as it makes it seem as if you have more time in places than you do. You will lose an average of a half day each time you move. Better to list those days as travel days or put them with the destination days.
You are departing Florida in the 18th. Are you Arriving London the same day? That is unlikely. You are probably arriving on the 19th. Do not count that as a sightseeing day. Allow for jet lag. Also, perhaps better for you to count nights. Subtract 1 from the total number of nights in a place to get full days there. I understand that you will be rearranging this itinerary.

April 18, depart Florida
April 19, arrive London, 6 nights (5 whole Days)
April 25, Travel to Ireland via Dublin, 14 nights (13 whole Days) You will also use a lot of travel time within Ireland.
May 9, Travel to France via Paris, 17 nights (16 whole Days) will use more as travel days getting from place to place.
May 26, Travel to Italy via Venice, etc.
Sassafrass is online now  
Old Jan 17th, 2018, 07:16 PM
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,139
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
Regarding kite boarding & wind, I know Essaouira, one of my all time favorite places, have spent time there several times and hope to go back. Much more fun than Tarifa, I think, where I spent a few days once. I'd recommend more time in Essaouira instead.
MmePerdu is online now  
Old Jan 17th, 2018, 08:08 PM
  #18  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Be sure to learn about the Schengen agreement. England is not part of it, so it is a good place to start.

As noted above, if you are on a budget, every change of town, will cost you money. And although you are going away for a long time, you will lose time the days you change towns and packing and unpacking, flights, trains, checking in and out does get old.

Also as noted Spain and Morocco are brutal that time of year. You might want to fly into Morocco from FLL, go to Spain and and finish up in the UK. That way you are a little ahead of the weather and the Schengen Agreement.
IMDonehere is offline  
Old Jan 18th, 2018, 08:19 AM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ireland is not in Schengen either. Every other country in western Europe is including now Switzerland except Ireland and U.K.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Jan 18th, 2018, 10:53 AM
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes packing up and relocating and unpacking takes a long time - more for some than others. I also suggest cutting down bases and perhaps doing day trips from bases - that's what I do and traveling on trains on day trips sans luggage is great - just hop off train and start going.

Like Paris - day trip to say Normandy's D-Day beaches is an easy day trip by train - ditto Reims and Chartres two great cathedral cities - Reims also for Champagne House tours.

Less can be more in life in many ways!
PalenQ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -