Which cloud forest?
 

I'm debating changing our itinerary and thinking about going to Bosque de Paz and Villablanca (Los Angeles Cloud Forest) for two nights each instead of 3 nights at Monteverde. I've been reading that Monteverde is very crowded and was wondering if those areas would be less crowded but still be beautiful cloud forests. Has anyone been to these and can you tell me if they're as good as, or better, than Monteverde? We don't care which has better food, etc.--rather which has better birding/wildlife/flora.

Thanks!

IMHO Monteverde is the most overrated part of CR!
Los Angeles Cloud Forest is a better bet, less people more quetzals!

I was at Villa Blanca in August. Much of the land around the hotel is cattle/dairy farm. On a clear day you can even see Arenal. It is a lovely place. There is a nice cloud forest you can go hiking in but the whole place isn't a cloud forest. We also saw some very good birds. There was a pair of Emerald Toucanets right off the dining room. My husband and a friend saw a Jacamar. Unfortunately we had a lot of rain on one of our days and couldn't get out as much as we would have liked. You will not see a Quetzal up there. They do have a day trip where they will take you 45 mins away where some have been seen. We did not see any animals.

I imagine you are trying to keep things simple by finding places fairly close together but south in San Gerardo de Dota you can see some wonderful birds. We also saw monkeys.

For a good birding lodge if you are really into birds I would recommend Rancho Naturalista. Further south even more down around Puerto Jimenez is Bosque del Rio Tigre. Fantastic birds, flora and a good bit of wildlife. A very small rustic place but Abraham is a genius when it comes to finding birds and his natural teas made with wild ginger or lemon grass after dinner are excellent. He grew up there and knows the birds and plants.

Another option that would keep you fairly close to Arenal/Bosque de Paz/ etc would be to head over to the Sarapiqui area. Wonderful birds and animals over at La Selva or Tirimbina. Selva Verde is an option as well.

I think Lorrie already has plans for Selva Verde, right?

Savegre area (San Gerardo de Dota) as well as Los Angeles Cloud Forest would provide you with nice alternatives.

Humberto Brenes, a friend of ours at Hotel Villa Bonita, tells me that many Josefinos (city folks) enjoy the area of San Jose de Montana as well.

Haven't spent much time in LA Cloud Forest (just driving through numerous times), but we LOVE San Gerardo de Dota area--think you would too!

Thank you all for taking the time to help me out. This is one of the itineraries we're considering (April 22-May 6 or so):

Fly in at night--stay somewhere SJO.
Drive down to Carrara area (Punta Leona) for 2 or 3 nights (Villa Lapas just does not answer emails).
Drive back up to Bosque de Paz for two nights (they have one room left).
Drive over to VillaBlanca for two nights (it looks fairly close to Bosque de Paz) and take the Quetzal tour in the morning--it goes up 45 minutes to the top of a mountain area where they say they nest, the tour is only offered during certain months).
Go to Arenal for 3 nights (Hanging Bridges, Cano Negro, maybe canoe on the Rio Arenal).
Go to Selva Verde for 3 nights (LaSelva, Sarapiqui).
Go to Peace Lodge for 1 night.
SJO for one night--early flight out.

I was looking at Savegre Mountain Lodge but it looks like it would add a lot of driving on to our plans. And we'd love to go down to Osa (Bosque del Cabo) but we both really hate flying--and that's in big airplaines! As this is our first time, the way I've got it the driving should only be maybe 2-1/2 hours for the longest, hopefully? Does this sound like an okay plan, or is it too much driving? Should we plan on 2 or 3 nights at Punta Leona (want to see Scarlet Macaws)?

Thanks again!

It's a great itinerary. But do try to get yourselves down to the San Gerardo area one of these times! Savegre is just a great place to stay and there are LOTS of quetzales! Excellent guides there--- Melvin and Marino.

I don't like flying either. Never have, and I understand your feeling for smaller planes in particular. Sure is the best way to get to the Osa, though, and you'll just HAVE to do that sometime as well! Although we did enjoy our leisurely bus trip down there and back. We kind of did a little 9 day bus tour, backpacking. It was a great experience. Would recommend it to anyone who doesn't mind a little adventure! :)

One other thing. I've not stayed at Villa Lapas OR Punta Leona, but from everything I've heard, I'd bust my rear trying to get in touch with VL. Call them! Punta Leona just doesn't sound very appealing--at least that has been my impression. Perhaps others could shed more light.

I haven't stayed at Punta Leona, but I have been there for lunch, and I'd say that if you can you should skip it and go to Savegre Mountain Lodge---lovely people, beautiful surroundings, great food, gazillions of birds, very comfortable accomodations. It doesn't get any better than that.

How long does it take to drive (we're renting a car) from SJO to Savegre Mountain Lodge? If we went there first, we could possibly change our direction and go on to Selva Verde from there--does anyone know how long a drive that would be?

Sorry I didn't remember the Selva Verde part. I have been in a drug induced haze and flat on my back most of the last week due to a bad back. Trying to keep track of things has been a little shakey.

When we were at Villa Lapas a couple of years ago the rooms were not all that great but the grounds made up for it even though they were a little run down at the time. The putt putt was unusable and most of the jacuzzi jets weren't working. Didn't matter to us but just mentioning it in case anyone else is interested. Like you, we are more interested in the nature aspects of the place. You could just visit and do a bird tour there. While at VL we saw a pygmy owl sitting in a hole in a tree right by our room, a faciated Tiger Heron, Pale billed woodpecker, kinkajous in a tree at night. Carara is a unique area and well worth the time. We saw manakins doing their lek dance. We saw peccaries, a huge wild looking black and white rat snake, monkeys, plus many many other birds. Hubby is the keeper of the "list" and with so many years of travel down there and so many birds seen, I can only remember a few highlights of each place so excuse my short list.

Twice in the last three years we have gone to Dominical via Quepos and have been driving by the Tarcoles river around 3-4pm. We have seen scarlets on both trips. Further towards Quepos is a small lagoon off to the right where you can see roseat spoonbills and many other similar birds.

Sounds like you have a great trip planned. The Sarapiqui area is one of my favorites. It is never terribly crowded. Do plan on mud and rain. Sometimes we don't get it but often we do. Tirimbina in that area is a place that you won't run into a lot of people. We haven't been into their rainforest area yet but were just awed by the birds just around the Centro Neotropico lodge. My father in law was on the board of directors of the OTS back in the 60's and we are members now so we always visit there when in the area. Saw my first Puff Bird and Great Green macaw while there. FYI, guides are great, food is awful at La Selva. We usually travel to that area with a tico friend who has friends there and we get to bird in some out of the way places. Keep your eyes open along the roads, we frequently see bat falcons in that area.

Our friend is also a private travel agent and can help with reservations and transportation if you need it. He is the one who booked us into VL. Someone on another board recommended him to us several years ago and we have been using him ever since.

San Gerardo de Dota is about a 2 1/2-3 hr drive from San Jose. It would be a long ride to Selva Verde from there. I am going to give you an idea of another loop you could make.

Keep in mind that timing can only be estimated because the weather along the road from San Jose can get bad and truck traffic can really slow things down as you go up to 10,000ft. I have been through there with really clear weather and also with horribly foggy conditions. The Costa Ricans will pass on curves so be careful!!!!

As you turn down off the highway to go to San Gerardo de Dota it is like driving down into a little Shangri La. So beautiful. This is apple growing country. We met a couple who bought a huge piece of property on the road down and have planted hundreds of fruit trees. It is a beautiful property. If it weren't so cold there I would think about it myself. We saw some beautiful trogons on the horseback/hike to the waterfalls from the Savegre Lodge. Silky flycatchers right on the electrical wires by the lodge. Quetzals flying all around us when the trees are in fruit at a private finca nearby.

Tolomuco Lodge isn't far from San Gerardo de Dota and would give you a place to stay while looking around the San Isidro area. It is right off the main highway. Just south of SI about 40 mins or so is a huge preserve. Just a few minutes outside of SI is the Los Cusingos reserve where Alexander Skutch lived. We just bought some property up the street from there and we are looking forward to getting to know the birds that he loved so much in that area. Los Nubes cloud reserve is also in that area and is what we will be looking at from our property. Don't know if you can get a guide at Los Cusingos yet. The world cup was going on when my husband was there so he and our friend were told they could just go in. You would have to contact the Tropical Science Center for permission to go in to Los Cusingos.

Not far south of San Isidro is a huge Reserve that doesn't get much activity. My husband finally went there this July with our friend and thought it had wonderful birds. Our friend owns a second home down there and we stay there frequently which is how we ended up buying down there. We always knew we would end up in the Talamancas just didn't know it would be so far south. All that much closer to the Osa so I am happy :-). It is also near a lot of Native Costa Ricans so I am looking forward to learning more about them.

To continue the loop, Dominical is only about an hour from San Isidro and from there you can go south to the Bellena Marine Park or head up to Quepos or even on to the Carara area. We enjoyed Pacific Edge in Dominical. We saw some good birds and monkeys while there. Unfortunately, there is a lot of building going on in that area.

People often wonder what we could still be finding after 15 years of traveling in CR but there are still so many little nooks and crannys that we just keep going back for more. It is also a great place to visit Panama and Nicaragua from.

After writing all of the above, I would still think about your second (?) choice of places where you will be going to Los Angeles, Bosque de Paz, Selva Verde and Carara. It has a great combination of cloud forest, rain forest, and coastal rainforest. It will certainly give you a look at the amazing diversity that Costa Rica has.

I am one of those strange people who still love Monteverde but it is better to visit during quieter times.

Thank you for taking the time to write so much and help me out--I really appreciate it. I just looked at a map and didn't realize that the drive from Savegre Mtn Lodge to Selva Verde would be so long--for some reason I thought it would be closer! I think we're going to have to save Savegre area (and then on to Southern CR) for our next trip--I want to do it all right now!

So we have two options:

Apr 22 fly in late
Apr 23, 24 Villa Lapas (maybe 1 more night)
Apr 25, 26 Bosque de Paz
Apr 27, 28 VillaBlanca
Apr 29, 30, May 1 Lost Iguana Arenal
May 2, 3, 4 Selva Verde
May 5 Somewhere SJO
May 6 fly home

or do Monteverde (for 3 nights) instead of Bosque de Paz & VillaBlanca (2 nights each).

I'm also still debating staying at Peace Lodge--it's so expensive and I'm not sure we'll like all the people.

I wish I could make up my mind--I really need to make my reservations and get my plane tix!