fingerprinting
 

I heard brazilian customs will now be fingerprinting and photographing non-residents because the US is doing this? I was told unlike here where they use some electronic imaging system to fingerprint one finger in Brazil they are using ink for the whole hand and you stand holding a number like a mugshot. Has anyone experienced this?

topping

Quark, it just started and so far only in Sao Paulo so you won't be getting too many hits on this just yet, the people havn't come back from their trip yet. And when they do the program will probably be over by then, so be patient.

My partner and I entered Brazil on 12/26 at GRU (Sao Paulo) and we did not get fingerprinted; however on 12/31 we went to Argentina and when we flew back through GRU on 1/5 to catch our connecting flight back to Atlanta we did have our photograh and fingerprint taken.

As we were entering customs they told all Americans to go to a special line and we were given a sign with a number printed on it that we held below our face and our picture was taken and then we were fingerprinted using the ink. No big deal because there wasn't that many Americans on that flight from BA to Sao Paulo so not much of a delay. Not to worry as they were very nice about it and so were we :-)

Quark,

They just changed that to one finger only but ink is still used.

The city of Rio de Janeiro will file a lawsuit today demanding an end to Brazil's new practice of fingerprinting and photographing U.S. tourists, Mayor Cesar Maia announced Tuesday, and the State Department seconded his complaint.

Maia said the procedures, ordered by a federal judge who was angered by new U.S. screening of Brazilian visitors, discriminate against Americans by treating them differently from other foreign visitors. In addition, Maia contended that Brazil's federal government, not a judge, should be setting the country's immigration policies.

"It is the country that loses because of this immature anti-American policy," Maia said yesterday.

Rio filed suit after Brazilian Federal Police officials took as long as eight hours on Monday to process U.S. citizens who arrived on overnight flights to Brazil from New York and Miami. Some delays continued Tuesday.

That treatment drew a protest from the State Department to Brasilia and criticism from State Department spokesman Richard Boucher.

Boucher told reporters that Brazil's new entry procedures "single out U.S. citizens for exceptional treatment," were "quickly instituted [and] not well prepared" and are causing "significant delays" in admitting U.S. visitors.

That's a big problem for Rio, which in the post-Christmas season tries to welcome about 1,300 Americans a day to Brazilian summer south of the equator.

American and Canadian tourists numbered about 220,000 and spent an estimated $255 million in the city last year. The new screening threatens that business and hurts Rio's image as a modern, welcoming destination for tourists, said Paulo Bastos, the city's undersecretary for tourism.

"These people are not giving a positive message about our city. That's why the city is getting involved," Bastos said. ``This measure was hastily improvised. It prejudices our ability to attract new visitors."

Brazilian Federal Police spokesman Bruno Ramos justified the new procedures for U.S. visitors, saying Americans posed special risks for trafficking drugs and women and stealing wildlife from the Amazon. He declined to elaborate.

Published January 7th

USA decided that brazilian citizens are a possible threat to their internal security, so we are screened, fingerprinted, photographed etc upon arrival to the USA.
This is strongly perceived by most brazilians as largely insulting, which explains why most people here agree with subjecting american citizens to the same ritual upon arrival.
Now everybody can see (and feel) the situation is far from comfortable for both countries - which perception I hope will be the starting point towards making a good deal, for mutual benefit.

I will be flying into Sao Paulo next week from Newark. The Continental flight arrives at 10:45 am , then I fly on to Rio on Continental at 11:55 am. Will I go throught the fingerprinting in Sao Paulo or in Rio. If in Sao Paulo, does Continental hold up the Rio flight for the time it takes for all connecting passengers who need to be fingerprinted? Please let me know (airline does not seem to have answers) because I would have to cancel my trip if I could not make it on to Rio (continental only flys once a day from sp to rio. thank you , vince13

Thank you for your responses. DonDiego, I hope things get sorted out by jan 15th as this is when I leave for rio. Dilermando, I totally agree with you.

Vince, calm down, the Continental flight for the Newark passengers is just a plane change. You do not do customs in Sao Paulo. All they do is transfer your bags to the plane that came from Houston and stops in SP and then on to Rio. You will do customs in Rio and that is where you will be fingerprinted. Lets hope that soon they will stop this as they don't have the system that the US has being digital and everything. I can just imagine that all these pictures and fingerprints are costing them plenty of money and just sitting in a box with no system.

I'm brazilian, and as Quarck, I totally agree with Dilermando...

The main problem is that Brazil does not have the infrastructure to process the arriving Americans. If they want to fingerprint and photograph Americans, that is their right, but they should at least be able to do it in an efficient and timely manner. To make people wait eight hours because the Rio airport only had ONE fingerprinting machine and only ONE official that knew how to do it, is not reciprocal treatment. No one entering the US is being held up like that.

has anyone come back yet with a fingerprinting experience in brazil?

Check out the O GLobo website. The first day there was a picture of the Brazilian authorities using some sort of a Poloroid camera and old fashioned ink pads. They were printing all ten digits. Now they are just doing the thumbs. If you arrive on a flight where there are not too many Americans, or if there are not too many other flights with Americans backed up, it might not take as long. Today, they mentioned Americans coming off a cruise ship. They were asked to step aside and the process took 45 minutes to an hour. The Brazilian tourist association is worried that there will be major backups when all the Carnaval groups start coming in. One group of 200 Americans who were planning some big trip down to Brazil later in the year just cancelled their trip. They mentioned (1)the $100 fee for VISAS and (2)the long waits for photos and fingerprints. There is also another problem brewing. I think the US is going to start requiring foreign carriers coming to the US to have an armed marshall on the flight. The Brazilian paper said Brazil currently has no trained marshalls to do this requirement. So, it might be better to stick with a US carrier and to plan your trip at less-busy times of the year when the lines won't be so long. I had been planning to go back in March, but I may wait until all this settles down. I could handle 45 minutes, but not 8 hours. I may switch to CR this year for my fun in the sun. The only problem is that the dollar is still so strong to the real (3 to 1) that you can get some great deals. Boa sorte!

Thank you, Dondiega. I appreciate your assistance very much. I am relieved, and am again looking forward to my trip.
vince

I think most of americans can't imagine how difficult it is to get a VISA to the states and as u, we pay 100 us dollars to get it, and we don't get it back when it is recused. The eight hours mentioned before occured in the beggining of the process, now it is not like that anymore. Honestly, i feel surprised when i hear an american saying brazilians r been hostile with them, surely they no few about how it is hard to a south american visit usa, and ONLY usa.

I agree 100% with you Cadu. I'm Brazilian and work for an American company in Sao Paulo. We have people from the US coming and going all the time and nobody felt like a criminal. I don't want to start a war here but Americans are used to be treated as kings everywhere they go and things like that help them to look into their internal processes and see how painfull it is for the rest of the world. My personal opinion about the fingerprints and photos is that we shouldn't do that. We Brazilians will loose a lot. There's never been 8 hours in lines, only in the first day since the Brazilian customs people were caught by surprise and the US-Visit program has been researched for a year. Again, I'm not saying that the Brazilians are right by doing that and I hope our government will do something about it pretty soon.

Now I hear it adds only about 20 minutes to the customs process. Thats not too much even us Americans can handle that much inconvienence.

Also I read an article that close to 300 Americans canceled a group trip to Rio this year and as a result the Brazilians estimate that they will loose close to 1 million dollars from this group. The tourism people in Rio are worried that this action is going to cost them some money. This is too bad that the US problem with terrorists has to cost Rio money from tourism.

Skipped and Skimmed the thread so if I miss or repeat please forgive...

I actually had a talk with my girlfriends about this as SA is our big 2004 trip.
We don't care. It's what we call: The Small Stuff...

I am American and I would not ever cancel a trip to ANYWHERE because of a long line (try any Disney trip)photograph or fingerprint station.

I have traveled all over the world and believe me I have been subject to all kinds of legitimate and bogus delays...

How many times have you been "held hostage" by cab drivers who drive you all over except where you need to go?

We as travelers must respect and be patient with the policies, customs and procedures of other countries. That step is a part of world travel as I see it...and, besides... "we" started it first as usual...

I do say that some Americans are "spoiled".

A great example is: If I have to wait in a line, be it customs, for luggage, for a cab or to clear security before I board a plane then by golly I will not (stamp foot) go to CARNAVAL...Helloooooo????

For those who cancelled they will probably go to some other destination and act in a manner that earns us the "stereotype" of Ugly American.

I look forward to my travel experience as any time I can pull out a suitcase I am reminded just one more time how great life is!

My Best
Oaktown Traveler

Mr. Oaktown, I like your attitude and your possie is lucky to have you as a leader.

Thanks...I am a girl(GRIN).

Just gotta have balls and ovaries for the travel boards...SMILE.

Happy Travels,
Oaktown Traveler

While the current situation is unfortunate, one good outcome may be for more Americans to gain a far better understanding of the impact of certain policies the damage that is caused by them. Ultimately, the way to a safer world is to have all peace-seeking nations working together with common purpose and resolve.

A federal judge ordered a halt to the fingerprinting all U.S. visitors to Rio de Janeiro, a requirement that was imposed in response to similar anti-terror steps in the United States, a court official said Monday.

The measures nationwide have delayed U.S. travelers in airports for up to nine hours since Jan. 1. A federal judge in the state of Mato Grosso ordered them after the United States this month began fingerprinting travelers arriving from a number of countries, including Brazil.

Judge Catao Alves of the First Regional Federal Court issued an injunction Friday night after the city of Rio de Janeiro appealed the initial ruling.

The injunction only applies to Rio de Janeiro because it was the city that filed the appeal.

However, U.S. tourists arriving to the city continued to be fingerprinted and photographed Monday morning because officials had not received official word of the judge's decision, federal police said.

The saga continues....
Americans flying into Rio on Tuesday were greeted with roses and T-shirts, the city's way of courting travelers unhappy about being fingerprinted and photographed in Brazil's tit-for-tat response to new US immigration rules.
The goodwill offensive features smiling young women working for a city that relies on tourists for much of its revenue and has a reputation for an easygoing beach scene and exotic nightlife rather than customs officials wielding ink pads.
Americans arriving on flights from NY and Miami received red roses and "Rio love You" t-shirts after standing in long,slow-moving lines to get fingerprinted.
City officials have tried and so far failed to suspend the measure for Rio. The Brazilian government said it would stay in place at least for 30 days while the rules are being reviewed.
The giveaways will initially be distributed on Tuesday and Wednesday, but Rio authorities may extend the act while fingerprinting continues.

Oaktown Traveler, u r completely right. I hope u come to rio in ur big SA trip...
News: today Sao Paulo and Rio's airports will use some kind of electronic imaging system to fingerprint americans, no more ink i think...

Look straight in the camera, smile, and just relax!
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americ...eut/index.html
Hope this guy gets off the hook!

I hope the pilot gets fired. Somebody that immature shouldn't be flying a plane. Giving the finger to authorities is such an adolescent gesture. (He's over 50!) Do I want somebody like him in charge of a plane? No way.
Not to mention that he's exacerbated an already tense situation. There's probably less of a chance now that the fingerprinting requirement will be lifted. Way to go -- not.

The offender AA pilot Dale Robbin Hersh, 53, was fined by a federal judge (approx. US$ 10,000 to be given to charity). He was allways well-treated by Brazilian officials. I hope this episode taught him (and his supporting crew) how to behave properly. Many brazilians are asking themselves if a foreigner giving the finger to USA authorities would be treated so lightly.

Have y'all seen the photo on TV today showing the American Airlines pilot using "an obscene" gesture in his photo that resulted in yesterday's report he was arrested, and today heard fined $13,000.

Listen, I think this fingerprinting thing is absolutely ridiculous and juvenile. I am British, but now am a naturalized US citizen, and I am outraged. I wouldn't mind, but why are only those carrying US passports fingerprinted and photographed when entering Brazil??? When I travel to Rio in July I will be taking my mother, who holds a British passport. I will be fingerprinted and photographed, but she will not. This is very unfair.

I understand that Brazilians don't like being fingerprinted when they come to the US, but if Brazil tightened its security this law would not be applied to its citizens. Brazil still uses the old passports that can't be scanned by computer, and they are very easy to forge. If Brazil wants to join the list of countries that the US doesn't impose fingerprinting on, then it needs to procede into the 21st century and get with the program.

This is not a diatribe against the Brazilian people, only its antiquated national security system.

Cheers, John G.

John, although you probably make a valid point about the lack of security of Brazilian passports, the fingerprinting requirement in the United States are for people who require visas to enter. It's because Brazilians need a visa (even tourist) to enter the US that they require to be fingerprinted and photographed on entry. Citizens from Visa-waiver countries are not required to go through this process.
I initially welcomed the new security measures. On second thought however it does all seem a little arbitrary, considering that quite a few muslim extremists hold UK passports (Shoe bomber as an example) and therefore would circumvent the added security.

At the Americas conference on Jan 13 (before the AA pilot obscene gesture episode), Brazilian President da Silva asked US President Bush to suspend the fingerprinting requirements for Brazil.
According to a NYT article on Jan 14:
On the face of it, Mr. da Silva's efforts to press the US to exempt Brazil from the registration program seem doomed, even if Mr. Bush were to show sympathy. Aside from establishing a precedent that other nations would presumably ask for, too, Brazil meets almost none of the standards set by the State Department for inclusion in the group of 27 exempted countries.
For a nation to qualily, the refusal rate on requests for nonimmigrant visas to the US must be below 3 percent; Brazil's rate is "up in the double digits, nowhere in that ballpark at all,"an American consular official said Tuesday. In addition, Brazil does not issue passports that can be scanned by machine, another American requirement.
The American regulations also require nations to "demonstrate that adequate safeguards against fraudulent use of their passports are in place." Skilled forgers here produce both Brazilian and American documents, and American officials said Brazil was second only to Mexico in so-called expedited removals because of false documentation or misrepresentation at US ports of entrys. ( from NYT Jan 14, 2004, p. A9, "Brazil Seeks to Bypass Fingerprinting" by Larry Rohter)

Also, I read on the O Globo site today that Colin Powell is expected to visit Brazil about other matters next month. Obviously, this will be discussed. But, from what I was able to translate, the Brazilian authorities will expect a mutually advantageous decision. They also said that they have 11 digital machines at Rio and SP airports, and the lines should be no more than 30 minutes. However, no one knows about time frame during heavy Carnival peak travel dates.

Simply outrageous.

First, a Brazilian federal judge calls Americans "nazis" for implementing safeguards against terrorism, and requires Americans - and only Americans - to be subject to delays of many hours to be fingerprinted as some kind of misguided retaliation for an imagined slight.

Then, when an American pilot subtly protests this insulting and draconian policy (if anyone saw the photo of the pilot, it's clear that his gesture was ambiguous and whimsical, not obscene) he is harshly persecuted with a massive fine relative to whatever offence was perceived.

Clearly, the Brazilian authorities are out of control. This anti-American bigotry has simply gotten out of hand.

Americans are not Nazis. It is simply wrong to single Americans out for this kind of persecution and abuse.

It is clear that Americans are not welcome in Brazil. We have received that message loud and clear.

Outrageous. I could use this word to express what any latin tourist feel when he tries to visit USA.
JaquesQ, where did u read about a brazilian judge saying americans r nazis???
I don't know if u have in mind that we fingerprint only americans, because we r fingerprinted by u, and ONLY BY U.
I still feel surprised when any american say we r being hostile. U r not feeling 10% of what we do when we go there.
That was not obscene? Oh, come on, gimme a break... I imagine how it would be if it were a brazilian in an american airport...
Americans r always welcome here, who comes, feel it.
Thank godness i have spanish nationality and there is no need for me to be fingerprinted there but for my girlfriend it is necessary.
Terrorists in Brazil? that must be a joke...

JauquesQ:

Come on...Americans ARE NOT being persecuted nor abused.

Please, out of respect for many who are being, have been and will be persecuted and absused, do not spout these false charges.

Furthermore: PROVE IT!

Anti-American Bigotry? For sure you are kidding? America puts the "B" in bigotry...check our proven history on this...sorry, check your newspaper and current practices going on today in Anytown, USA.

Having said that. I love where I live warts and all...I just can not take all of what America does on a daily basis on my shoulders before I travel and enjoy this life that God gives me.

No one is forbidding Americans to travel to Brazil.

Not welcome just does not fly. If we Americans were not welcome as you alledge more than just you would know it.

Sorry, I and many others simply did not get that "loud and clear" memo about that.

If you talk to any ONE of the thousands of Americans who are anxiously awaiting their time to travel there you would find no support for your view.

If you are really this angry about the situation then write to your elected officials and theirs.

Happy Travels,
Oaktown Traveler

I see this is an old thread but half of my family just flew back from MC through the states and they were fingerprinting everyone who stayed overnight in the US, Canadians also. There were major delays and their local flight was missed. We will avoid amy flights that stop in the US now direct flights are just so much nicer. Don't think it will hurt the US just wanting a less stressful travel experience as I get older.

I just returned yesterday from an amazing trip to Rio de Janiero. (thank you domdiego for the earlier advice) The fingerprinting was done electronically (only each index finger) and the photo was taken digitally. It only took about three extra minutes from the regular process. The officials conducting the procedure were very efficient and friendly. Once I was in the city, I did not hear a single reference to the whole fingerprinting issue. Vince