schlegal1

I am posting anew since we changed things significantly (and b/c I want this to post under "Mexico&quot

Finalized my itinerary:
1. would love suggestions on hotels (budget = avg. $80/night--can splurge one place if can budget later) in any of the areas (esp. Mayaland Hotel, which we are considernig mostly for the access to Chichen Itza).

2. Is it ok to wait to book hotels when we get there (Mex. City, Morelia, Guad??)or do we need reservations?

3. Haven't seen much tourist info on Guadalajara, what is interesting (history, art, or outdoorsy) there?

Also, which looks better for Nov 16-20?? A or B??

A:
Nov. 16 - Fly into Cancun, drive to Valladolid
Nov. 17 - Explore near Valladolid, including Cenote Dzitnup and Ek Balam
Nov. 18 - Full day Chichen Itza
Nov. 19 - Coba and Tulum
Nov. 20 - TRAVEL Day - fly Cancun to Mexico City, Half day Mexico City
Nov. 21 - Teotihuacan
Nov. 22 - Explore Mex City
Nov. 23 - drive to Morelia early, explore Morelia
Nov. 24 - Explore Morelia or Patzuaco
Nov. 25 - El Rosario Butterfly Sanctuary (if not open, drive to Guadalajara for remainder of trip)
Nov. 26 - Sierra Chincua Butterfly sanctuary (if open to public), drive to Guadalajara
Nov. 27 - Explore Guadalajara
Nov. 28 - Fly home

B:
Nov. 16 - Fly DC to Cancun, drive to Mayaland Hotel, Chichen Itza, evening Chichen itza
Nov. 17 - Early AM, Chichen Itza; PM drive to Valladolid
Nov. 18 - Explore near Valladolid, including Cenote Dzitnup and Ek Balam
Nov. 19 - Coba and Tulum
Nov. 20 - TRAVEL Day - fly Cancun to Mexico City, Half day Mexico City

Stewbear

You make me tired just reading your first option. IMO far too much in too little time. My Minimums at any of these places as one who has been there. Mexico city 3 nights (including Pyramids), Morelia 1 night, Patuzcauro 2 nights, Guadalajara 3 nights. Butterflies I would skip. Not the attraction you may think. Car, horses & hike all necessary & you may not see anything. If you do it's like a huge cluster of butterflies sitting, not moving in the cold mountain air. Go to Monterey California to see them at the other end of their migration much easier. I'd do the Yucatan in the amount of time your having. You will only highlight on the schedule you propose. I've been going to Michoacan (Morelia, Patzcuaro, Uruapan etc.) for 5 years only now begining to scratch the surface. Guadalajara is a lovely city with tons to do. Stay in the Plaza area if you go. You will want at least a half day in Tlaquepaque/Tonala. A half day in Mexico City is like a half day in New York City.

schlegal1

Thanks, Stewbear,
Actually, we usually cram A LOT into our vacations and come home tired, so I am not worried about that.

We are trying to see the butterflies as we are huge nature lovers--love hiking, biking, anything outdoors so even a hike to nothing can be worthwhile to us. I understand your point but if the migration isn't there yes, we are flexible with our schedule.

The half day in Mexico city is only because it's a travel day, not because we are planning a daytrip or something for the other half. That's why there's another explore Mex. City day later on. We're not city people so really only interested in the highlights there anyway.

I am more concerned with cutting or rearranging in the Yucutan. That's why I have the two different options for there.

Also, we booked the airfare and added another day on the end, which we'll commit to Guadalajara.

Pausanias

Both options look good to me. Option B gives you some more off-peak time at CI.

We stayed at Mayaland ourselves for a night. Very pretty grounds. You may be a little disappointed at lunch -- bus tours arrive and there's some awful "entertainment" -- but by evening it quiets down. Make a reservation at one of their smaller restaurants for dinner. As I recall, it's pretty expensive.

Valladolid is only thirty minutes away, though, and you can save considerable money. This is a nice place: http://www.mesondelmarques.com/ which is well within your budget.

You might want to spend a little more in Mexico City. I've stayed twice at the Hotel Majestic and have been happy. http://www.majestic.com.mx/ Click on reservations for prices and pictures. Basic rate is about $115. It can be noisy because of all the activity on the Zocalo, but the proximity is part of the attraction. They have quieter rooms on the courtyard but then you can't see what happening.

A good restaurant nearby is the Cafe de Tacuba.

Stewbear

Agree about the Majestic a great old if a bit funky hotel with a great staff. Defiantly get a outside room High Up to have a view with little noise.One secret. Book Through Best Western asking for their "BEST RATE" in those words.You will save a bit. I paid only 68 US last trip for a outside room.

schlegal1

Pausanias--Glad to see your endorsement for mason del marques. Saw it on tripadvisor and it looked pretty decent.
As for Mex City--thanks for the budget advice since I was wondering if we would need to spend a bit more for a decent place. I have a feeling those $40-$50 places might not be the safest (though I am intrigued by Hotel Catedral $45, which looks alright on tripadvisor)

Stewbear - Thanks for that info and for seconding the Majestic--I will def. look into it. So glad you put it on my radar, as it wasn't before! And $68 sounds right in our price range.

marilynl

I have not been to the Yucatan, so I can't help you there, but I wanted to pass on a few general observations. For a traveler who is self-described as "not a city person" it seems contradictory to be scheduling so much time in Mexico's two largest cities. Mexico City is incredible, you could easily spend more time there, especially given the number of ruins either in the city or close by. The reason you may not be seeing much about tourism in Guadalajara is that not too many tourists go there. It is a big city, and I think much less interesting than Mexico City. Tlaquepaque/Tonala is the part that interests most tourists who DO go there. There are some charming colonial cities--Guanajuato, for one--between Mexico City and Guadalajara, if you are flying back from there, and you could take first-class buses rather than driving yourself if you prefer.

I personally think you get a better selection if you book hotels in advance. I have stayed in each of the tourist areas of Mexico city--Zocalo, Zona Rosa/Reforma, and Polanco--and they each have their advantages. My current favorite is Polanco: easy access to Chapultepac Park and all its museums, by far the most restaurants to select from. The Zocalo is great, but I prefer to visit that area during the day, and actually stay somewhere that offers more to do in the evening, fancier hotel rooms. Zona Rosa/Reforma is a little shabby around the edges these days, but still has good hotels, shops and restaurants, but you will be badgered more by would-be guides, etc., on the street.

As the other poster says, you ought to be able to do much better than $115 per night for the Majestic if you decide on the Zocalo area. You might also consider Priceline for Mexico City, bidding only 4-star. I have several times gotten the JW Marriott for $70-$80, which is a real bargain for such a beautiful hotel.

mikemo

In Patzcuaro, we recommend Hot Mansion Iturbe and Rest Cha CHa Cha (perhaps the very best in all of Michoacan).
M (SMdA, Gto.)

Pausanias

No doubt you can do better that $115 at the Majestic. That's just their "rack rate." On my two stays (once with friends, once with family) we splurged on corner suites with two bedrooms and a sitting room for only a little more.

glover

We're nature lovers and half of us thought the trip worthwhile. I loved it, my husband felt a little let down.
The sun came out now and again when we were there, so there was intermittent activity. BUT having said that it IS a long trip, and isn't November awfully early for them to be at the sanctuary in force? And you may not need to go to both sanctuaries in any case. We went to Chincua. This was 2005 - supposedly a year with low populations at the sanctuary - but still thought it was fantastic - waaayayyyyyyy more butterflies than I'd ever seen in one place. It was the second half of February.

SusanInToronto

We saw the butterflies a few years ago and it was an amazing experience. I think it would have been March (or maybe late February) when we were there. It was interesting - we actually saw snow on the ground outside the butterfly sanctuary. It was cool and crisp, but then we started to hike, it got warm fairly quickly. I was so glad we saw it - I've never seen so many butterflies in my whole life.

TrvlMaven

I agree that November may be too early for the butterflies. Monterey, CA (actually Pacific Grove) does have butterflies, but they are not the same ones that arrive in Mexico.
Agree with prev poster about Mansion Iturbe in Patzcuaro and that you'll need at least two days.
We stay outside Guadalajara in Tlaquepaque for the small town feel. Try La Villa del Ensueno or Quinta Don Jose (both B&Bs). I book through mexonline.com

Stewbear

Sorry maven but the butterflies that pass through Monterey do migrate on to Mexico. Or The US Forestry department is lying which of course the feds would Never Do! LOl

TrvlMaven

RE: Different butterflies in CA and Mexico. National Geographic info vs. US Forest Service. It's important to remember most USFS employees receive their training on the job--lots of great stories (not unlike many guides at the ruins in Mexico!)

schlegal1

Thanks for all the new info! (Sorry to be MIA--I don't have internet access at home so no Fodors on the weekends! I am reviewing all the new info now--it's much appreciated!

schlegal1

Yes, November is a bit early for butterflies that's why we're trying to get there as late as possible. Have heard some positive experiences from people who went around (U.S.) Thanksgiving time--not as many butterflies as peak but far fewer tourists. But we'll still try it because it's something we would def. enjoy. If it's a bust we'll do something else. I promise. And I will tell you it was a bust and eat crow!

Marilynl- Thanks for all that good info. I know that we have a lot of "city time" scheduled. With mexico city (and BTW all my co-workers have been telling me--"Don't get kidnapped" good heavens, you'd think it's an hourly occurrance) we figured it's enough time to get a taste of the highlights--like a weekend trip to NYC.

With Guadalajara--I would love alternative suggestions for places close by that might be a draw. we are flying out of there so figured that we'd spend some time there before leaving but would love to consider alternatives. Shopping is not a vacation acitivty for us so Tlaquepaque/Tonala may be out.

Stewbear

As far as Guadalajara the Plaza area could keep you busy with Museums,The Teatro Delgollado, The Plaza Mariachis, Cathedral, & other central attractions. If you are lucky enough to be there on Sunday it is festival day with all kinds of activities on the plazas. On the outskirts of town is a spectacular Park, Barranca de Oblatos (10 miles Northeast of the City) with a magnificent Waterfall & Canyons. Near by is the original Spanish settlement. The Zoos also in the area & is a nice if not spectacular one. I have spent up to a week in Guadalajara on several occasions never getting bored.

worldexplorer

We're going to the Yucatan in December, so I won't comment on that section, but we went to Morelia, Patzcuaro and Rosario in February, so here are some tips. You are supposed to be able to see the butterflies in November, although they may be higher up on the mountain. It was a highlight of our trip, so I advise making the time. Be prepared, it is a very long trip from Morelia. We left at 8 a.m., didn't return until about 7p.m. and actually didn't have a whole lot of time in the sanctuary. I am not sure that you're allowing youself enough time to explore Morelia and Patzcuaro. When driving from MEX to Morelia, you should plan at least 5 hours. If you left MEX at 8 a.m., you wouldn't arrive until at least 1p.m..One afternoon there won't be enough and you would really need a full day in Patzcuaro. I'd say 1 day in the city of Patzcuaro and 1/2 day at the lake, but could be squeezed into 1 day. Make sure you have at least a full day in both Morelia and Patzcuaro. It would really be ashame to do all this travelling and not really get more than a few hours in each city. In Patzcuaro, I highly recommend Meson de San Antonio. The website is www.mesondesanantonio.com. Lovely hacienda type hotel near cathedral. Brand new rooms/bathrooms that retain colonial charm, cable TV, wireless internet, gardens to lounge in, very reasonable rates. I will be posting review and pictures on tripadvisor. Taking a trip to the villages around the lake will also be worthwhile. In Morelia, I'd recommend Best Western Hotel Casino- Colonial hotel with modern amenities right on the main plaza, great restaurant. I'd consider skipping Guadalajara. It is a modern city with little historical charm. Mexico city has a great historic section, but there is the safety and pollution factor. There is a good chance you could fly into Morelia from Cancun or Merida and you would cut out 5 hours driving. If your into ruins, you could substitute Uxmal for Teotihuacan, which seem equally as impressive. Just an idea, spend a bit more time in the Yucatan, Cancun-Coba- Tulum-Valladolid-Chichen-Merida-Morelia-Patzcuaro-Mexico City.

schlegal1

I really appreciate all the different viewpoints!

Worldexplorer--I hadn't yet REALLY considered driving times as a factor, thanks for the heads up. I need to research those because I am used to 120 miles being a 2 hour drive and the experience won't be the same in Mexico!