Zurich and St. Moritz
 

We're planning a trip to Switzerland in January. Ideally, we would like to stay a few nights in a city and then 4-5 nights in a mountain resort. We were thinking Zurich and St.Moritz respectfully. Is this a good itinary? Any other suggestions?<BR>Thank you!<BR>

Anna, That would not be my choice. I would pick Luzern as your city and then train to Interlaken but stay at Wengen or Grindelwald as your resort. You may be late for best places to stay at the resorts---that is high season.

Anna: Just should know that the Engadin where St. Moritz is located has usually much better weather than the Bernese Oberland. But it's also colder, especially in January/February.<BR>Right now, it's snowing in Zurich. Everything is white and it's very cold. I'd pick Pontresina or Celerina, if you want to go to the Engadin. St. Moritz is too much of a town for my personal taste.<BR>And yes, Bob is correct about the bookings. It's hard to find something anywhere. People tend to stay close rather than taking planes right now.

Anna, That would not be my choice. I would pick Luzern as your city and then train to Interlaken but stay at Wengen or Grindelwald as your resort. You may be late for best places to stay at the resorts---that is high season.

Hi Ursula,<BR><BR>How hard is it snowing? How much snow do they expect and will it stay cold? I'd love to see some snow in Luzern next week--perfect for the holiday season.<BR><BR>BTilke

Looks like you have a choice between the advice of someone who has always LIVED in Switzerland (Ursula) and has also traveled it well, and a foreigner who visits (Bob).

BTilke. I am not sure the snow is gonna stay long. Although the forecast says it's gonna be really cold the next days.<BR>It's white all over here in Zurich and Lucerne not being far must be the very same. What day you arrive? The bad thing is, it's very slippery on the sidewalks. I am glad I made it home safely. Traffic has slowed down as always, when we have snow. <BR>I would say chances are given you will see some snow. Maybe not right in town, but definitely on the hills surrounding Lucerne. With sunshine, it's absolutely gorgeous. Please let us know how you liked it, esp. the Grand Hotel National. Also, I think Lucerne has nice Christmas decorations in the shops and in the streets. It's very christmassy here, yes, but some 8 degrees under zero. Sorry, no idea what's that in Fahrenheit. Please bring warm coat, scarve, gloves, hat and above all, good shoes, etc. I bet temperatures in Brussels are not high either.

Hello all,<BR>yes, it has been very cold here around Luzern. I just wanted to add that even if there are low clouds in Luzern the top of Pilatus (or Titlis, Jungfraujoch, etc) may very well be crystal clear (as it has been this past week). The views are gorgeous with the lowlands filled in with fog and all the mountain tops peeking out from it shrouded in snow. In fact on Sunday my spouse and I hiked up Pilatus and were treated with some beautiful sunny weather. an additional note, Just be aware that the cog railway is now closed but the cable car from Kriens is open all year round. Other wonderful places for winter walking around Luzern are Klewenalp, Niederickenbach, and Truebsee (Engelberg), and Wirzwili. <BR><BR>Ursula, do you plan on being in Flims around Christmas? We'll be there from Dec. 22-26.

I want to thank Ursula, Bob and others for replying to my message. I still have some doubts, though, about where to go. How far Luzern is from Zurich? Is it a more beautiful town than Zurich? I heard it's very "touristy". But then I'm a tourist :) Also, I thought St. Moritz is one of the best skiing places in Switzerland but people don't mention it much on this board. We were planning on staying in Badrutt's Palace. Is it worth the money?<BR>Thank you,<BR>Anna

Anna--<BR>Well, everyone has an opinion. Here's mine for what it's worth: The Engadine is a great skiing area, but rather than St. Moritz you should stay in Silvaplana, only a couple of KM away from St. Moritz and much more of a "small village" feeling. Hotels are just as good, and costs are generally lower. If you arrive in Zurich in the morning as most flights do, you should consider going as far as Chur for the first overnight, then on to Silvaplana the second day. Chur is a lovely old (very old) city that has a lot of charm and is often overlooked by tourists. Zurich is nice, but frankly there are more appealing cities in my opinion. Whatever you decide, I know you'll have fun. It's hard not to have good skiing in January.

Chris good morning!<BR><BR>What a mess this morning. Last night, some 100 car crashes in and around Zurich. <BR>It's icy everwhere and soo cold. Everything slowed down.<BR>But now, the sun comes out and it is like in a ski resort here, if we were not at work....<BR><BR>No, I won't in Flims then :) So sorry. But I used to go there (Hotel Adula or Sunstar).<BR>Love the place. What hotel will you stay at?<BR>Enjoy your holiday up there! I bet it's gorgeous now and with that cold, the snow is gonna stay and will be of good quality.<BR><BR>I am heading for Basel and then for Paris on the 26th!

Anna: here is one more vote against St. Moritz; my adivse is to do as the learnt people said: go to Berner Oberland. I wonder why nobody mentioned Muerren, though (same B.O. region). This would be my pick. e-mail me to the address above if you are interested in more details.<BR>Ursula: I can't believe it started snowing already (even though you mention Zurich only). I feel sympathy for those unfortunate car drivers, but I MUST HAVE that snow; going to the B.O. end of January! Can you take care of that, Ursula, bitte sehr...

Eli! I will do my best. :)<BR><BR>The fact that it snowed in Zurich, Berne, Lucerne, etc. means it even must have snowed much more in the mountains. I am sure you won't have any problem in the B.O.<BR>PS: I wonder why nobody mentions the Gstaad area! Yeah, Muerren is nice, sure, but not enough possibilities for a good skier, just my opinion. <BR>But still, for a good skier, the Engadin is great, some real challenging tracks.<BR>Enjoy your holiday then!

The Engiadine is always a good choice. I am not a fan of St. Moritz itself, but the nice villages around (Pontresina and Celerina or even Sils) are fantastic. The weather is more reliable and skiing is just great.<BR><BR>I would not go to the Palace, because I don't think it is worth the money. A four star hotel in Pontresina (maybe Saratz) or Sils (Post, Margna) is a better choice in my opinion.<BR><BR>And Zurich is a good choice, too.

I stayed at the Saratz in Pontresina this past summer--what a pleasant place to spend to some time, and a lovely little village as well. I agree--DO NOT stay in St Moritz--stay in a surrounding village.

Ingo and Donna:<BR>I do hear a lot of good things as well about the Saratz in Pontresina. It seems to be a nice place indeed.<BR>www.saratz.ch

Ursula--only problem for me was the Saratz website was only in German--did not translate well on babelfish.

Sorry, Donna. A lot of hotels in Switzerland have an English translation just like the tourists boards as well. Can you manage with the Saratz? At least, you can have a look at the pictures. Most places work on English version, but it takes time.

Hello everyone. What about June? Of Sils, Pontresina, and Celerina, which might be the loveliest for a non-snowy visit? Or what about Guarda and Ardez?

jw: my reply concerning the Engadin is coming very soon. I am working on it. One advice in advance: go there in the second half of June or first days of Oct.<BR><BR>In the upper Engadin Sils is highly recommended as a lovely, quiet place between the lakes of Sils and Silvaplana with wonderful walking and hiking opportunities. Pontresina might be the best place for excursions by train (Bernina Express!) and bus, walking and hiking, too. It is more lively than Sils, but less than St. Moritz.

Hello Ursula, Chris, Ingo! At the post titled "suggestions for a place to stay", there's a gentleman looking for a mountain village with old-world feel in the winter. Perhaps you three could check it out and help him pick a place. J.

Especially to jw, s, ursula, and Stephan, who started the new topic “Suggestions on where to stay”<BR><BR>I promised to publish why I love the Engadin valley, the lower valley in particular. It is difficult to tell in just a few sentences and I had problems to find special words in English, so I am afraid the webmaster will delete my post. <BR><BR>Probably it is the unique combination of nature and culture. The upper valley (St. Moritz etc.) has a U-shape, the lower valley has a V-shape. Both parts have a completely different mountain scenery. I think almost everybody knows the views of the wide open upper Engadin valley with its embedded lakes, forests, mountains and glaciers above. The bottom of the lower valley is narrow (except the area around Scuol-Tarasp) and the most villages are placed 200 – 400 m above on the sunny side. And what kind of villages! To get an idea of them you must know something about the original “Engadiner Haus” (Engadin houses).<BR><BR>Nothing else would be more suitable for this huge mountain scenery: white cubes, roof covered by granite plats, large carving worked wooden portals, wrough-iron balustrades and barred windows. Almost every house has an alcove. The walls are decorated by “sgraffitti” – ornaments scratched into the surface – looks like paintings. Inside the houses are decorated by wood (larch, mountain pine [Arve in German]) which gives a fantastic scent. Some of those houses are still farmer’s houses, especially in Ardez, others are now used as hotels, restaurants, in still others you can rent apartments.<BR><BR>The villages have a number of small squares with a fountain in the middle, surrounded by those characteristic houses. You must feel the intimate, peaceful atmosphere while sitting on a bank (which is an essential part of the Engadin house) next to the portal, listening to the dabbling fountain, talking with the friendly, open-hearted, normally rumantsch (4th national language in Switzerland) speaking people.<BR><BR>part 2 following

part 2The largest village of the lower Engadin valley is Scuol. As I wrote in a former post Scuol is my favourite place for skiing in January. It offers a good skiing area with 80 km of well groomed runs from 1250 to 2783 m altitude. Villages touched by skiing are Scuol, Ftan and Sent. During the last couple of years Scuol turned a little more into tourism, but is not crowded yet. Two reasons why I choose Scuol as staying place: some of the fountains on the small squares offer two kinds of water: normal water and real mineral water from the natural mineral springs around Scuol! These springs and their mineral water are the reason for the second special thing: the modern spa (in- and outdoor pools, Jacuzzis, saunas etc.), opened in 1993, where you can swim in this mineral water! After skiing or hiking/walking we always enjoy the fantastic dishes in the restaurants. The Engadin cuisine is strongly influenced by the Italy. But, I don’t know if it is known to you, the Engadin is famous for its confectioners. F. e. in the 17th (?) century 95% of the confectioner’s shops in Venice were owned to Swiss from canton of Grisons, Engadiners in particular!<BR><BR>There are still lots of things I forgot to tell, cross-country skiing, walking and hiking opportunities (in winter, too! And more than 1000 km of trails in summer) … the fantastic wild flowers (due to its dry climate)… the castle of Tarasp … and visiting the Engadin always means to pay a visit to neighbour valleys: Munstertal valley with the Benedictine convent (UNESCO world heritage of mankind), Valposchiavo valley with its lake (maybe a good place for you, jw, to stay) and the unique railway journey St. Moritz – Tirano (Bernina-Express), the Bregaglia valley with the village Soglio and the largest chestnut tree forest in Europe …And it is really enjoying to explore all this, because the public transport system is perfect. The Rhaetian railway runs along the valley and buses go to the smallest village, too. There is a pass for the lower Engadin valley and Munstertal valley including train and bus for 7 days for a charge of only about 60 Sfr.!<BR><BR>There are still so much things to tell – if you have any special questions, post on Fodors or send me an email.<BR><BR>Regards Ingo<BR><BR><BR>

Wow, Ingo, thank you very much! I'll never get my exams graded at this rate. I'm reading your two posts with my Hallwag Swiss map on my lap. Val di Poschiavo is way down there, isn't it? Miralago -- What a lovely name and yes, there is a lake! J.

Jw:<BR>In case you have some time left, see following address: http://www.valposchiavo.ch/immagini_ted/index.htm<BR><BR>The site is only in German or Italian, but you can have a look at wonderful pictures taken in the whole Val Poschiavo!<BR><BR>By the way, there is a fantastic small hotel in Miralago! Le Prese and Poschiavo itself have cosy, traditional hotels, too and are more lively places with Italian atmosphere. A few years ago the valley (Poschiavo in particular) was flooded after heavy rain. The received lots of money from the government in Bern and collections all over Switzerland, so they could renovate the houses, churches, villages perfectly. Now it looks better than before!<BR><BR>Happy New Year!<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>

For Ingo:<BR><BR>Wow, what a comprehensive & wonderful posting you've given us on the Engadin!! I really appreciate the time you've taken and the effort you've put into these great suggestions. BUT I really really really DON'T appreciate your adding to my never-dwindling list of spots to see in Switzerland! I'm even more convinced than ever that I'll have to reside there at least six months of the year to satiate myself on Switzerland!<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>s

Chere Anna, It appears that we've taken over your posting -- I hope you will be able to sample some of Ingo's suggestions in January. Please let us know how it turns out.<BR><BR>Ingo and s, you people brighten a grey, damp, freezing day in what we laughingly call the south. I've already bookmarked the valposchiavo site and, needless to say, copied your two-part Engadin commentary to my microsoft file. s, your reply made me laugh -- What do they call the person who supports and encourages another's addiction? Ingo, we love you. (By the way, s, did you see Ingo's suggestions re wildflowers at another posting? In 24 hours I've added three lakes to my list -- Poschiavo, Oschinensee, and Blausee.) Say, are you not supposed to be in Salzburg?<BR><BR>

jw & Ingo,<BR><BR>No, I leave for Salzburg tomorrow, and I'm sure I'll fall in love with Austria too!<BR><BR>jw, most Fodorites try to meet in the near future, but I think we should plan to meet in 10 or 15 years when we're temp or permanent residents in Switzerland. How's *that* for enabling??<BR><BR>Yes, our "increase of appetite," or the addiction, "grows by what it feeds on."<BR><BR>s

s, you will love Salzburg! One of the best schnitzels I ever had in my life was in a little restaurant on one of the narrow streets of the old city -- it was named Zigeuner Schnitzel (gypsy?), with onions and peppers piled on top. Sooooo good! If you fit in a side trip or two, don't forget Halstatt; it's our kind of place. J.