Yourstay.com now also Woogo.com
Jul 20th, 2005, 10:10 AM
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Yourstay.com now also Woogo.com
This screen name is an alias, I don't want my email address posted on this post.
I just saw a post on Usenet's rec.travel.europe giving this heads-up and thought I'd pass it on along with a website for those who hadn't heard of this company.
http://notyourstay.0catch.com
For the search engine: yourstay woogo london paris apartment rental
www.yourstay.com www.woogo.com
I just saw a post on Usenet's rec.travel.europe giving this heads-up and thought I'd pass it on along with a website for those who hadn't heard of this company.
http://notyourstay.0catch.com
For the search engine: yourstay woogo london paris apartment rental
www.yourstay.com www.woogo.com
Apr 28th, 2006, 05:30 PM
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Yes, It looks like bad stuff. Check www.ShameOnExpedia.com for what is going on with WooGo in New York City.
Will it ever end?
Will it ever end?
Apr 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM
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When I first searched Internet for our London vacation apartment, I saw some interesting-looking ones on WooGo. One of them had a virtual tour with details that didn't make spatial sense, like door placement. Thanks to this forum, I dumped them early on.
Apr 28th, 2006, 09:58 PM
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The websites mentioned are personal sites that appear to be generated by one individual- hard to say for sure. One of them links back to Fodors, and so it shows a certain amount of sophistication using the internet.
It is possible that this could be generated by an enraged tenant or tenant group being pressured to leave their building ("Woogo Lincoln Center Apartments"?) trying to fight the system that allows these building conversions in NYC and probably elsewhere. I'm not saying it is, but it is possible.
I say this because whoever is writing the complaint to Expedia shows a much broader and much more detailed awareness of NYC rent stabilization laws and apartment/hotel situations in NY than an ordinary traveler would have.
And this person mentions they are going to be on television on Monday, so they are plugging that event.
As to the accuracy of the information related to travelers, I would need to know more from a third source. There are many buildings in NYC where battles are waged between rent stabilized tenants and landlords/overlords, this might be part of one of those ongoing battles. Not taking sides here
(in which I would sympathize with tenants rights), just expressing that there appear to be other motives than those of a simple traveler.
Oh, I have such insomnia tonight!
It is possible that this could be generated by an enraged tenant or tenant group being pressured to leave their building ("Woogo Lincoln Center Apartments"?) trying to fight the system that allows these building conversions in NYC and probably elsewhere. I'm not saying it is, but it is possible.
I say this because whoever is writing the complaint to Expedia shows a much broader and much more detailed awareness of NYC rent stabilization laws and apartment/hotel situations in NY than an ordinary traveler would have.
And this person mentions they are going to be on television on Monday, so they are plugging that event.
As to the accuracy of the information related to travelers, I would need to know more from a third source. There are many buildings in NYC where battles are waged between rent stabilized tenants and landlords/overlords, this might be part of one of those ongoing battles. Not taking sides here
(in which I would sympathize with tenants rights), just expressing that there appear to be other motives than those of a simple traveler.
Oh, I have such insomnia tonight!
Apr 29th, 2006, 03:17 AM
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Bellastar, while I think you are right to use some caution about Internet stories, the motives of the person posting aren't that relevant. (This goes both ways - when a poster responding to one of these Woogoo threads was accused of working for Expedia because they defended the company's handling of the traveler/tenant/whoever's complaint. )
The thing is, even if a poster does have other motives, this in and of itself doesn't render such points as they raise invalid.
In particular, the Woogoo thing raises an interesting issue. Companies that are scam operations can, once shut down, resurface under a different name. This can be a real problem for consumers, since we rely on sharing information with other consumers to make good decisions. Perhaps too much so - perhaps the real index of a business' reliability ought to be the number of years it has been in operation, coupled with whether it appears in any guidebook, rather than the number of good (or bad) reviews one reads on the Internet.
Now, the hard part seems to be finding out how long a business has been in operation. Anyone know? (It might well vary from country to country...)
The thing is, even if a poster does have other motives, this in and of itself doesn't render such points as they raise invalid.
In particular, the Woogoo thing raises an interesting issue. Companies that are scam operations can, once shut down, resurface under a different name. This can be a real problem for consumers, since we rely on sharing information with other consumers to make good decisions. Perhaps too much so - perhaps the real index of a business' reliability ought to be the number of years it has been in operation, coupled with whether it appears in any guidebook, rather than the number of good (or bad) reviews one reads on the Internet.
Now, the hard part seems to be finding out how long a business has been in operation. Anyone know? (It might well vary from country to country...)
Apr 29th, 2006, 03:47 AM
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I don't think the poster's basic points are invalid, I just think the other possibility (that the poster or group may be the one who created those protest websites, and may or may not be a traveler-I may be wrong, but my NY instinct tells me they are tenants with an axe to grind) can be factored in.
The practice of illegal short-term sublets has been common in NYC for a long time, whether by individuals or by more organized means. It's a by-product of the ultra-high cost of living. If the WooGoo thing is a real problem, it's good to know about it, but it's been going on far longer than they could have been in business under any name, I assure you.
If they are doing what the poster implies, then they should be banned from advertising on travel sites, and it's a good cause. But apartments used illegally as short term sublets in NY will continue long beyond this.
The practice of illegal short-term sublets has been common in NYC for a long time, whether by individuals or by more organized means. It's a by-product of the ultra-high cost of living. If the WooGoo thing is a real problem, it's good to know about it, but it's been going on far longer than they could have been in business under any name, I assure you.
If they are doing what the poster implies, then they should be banned from advertising on travel sites, and it's a good cause. But apartments used illegally as short term sublets in NY will continue long beyond this.
Apr 29th, 2006, 04:58 AM
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I'm the one who created the protest websites, starting with www.woogosucks.com (which simply began with my frustration for not being able to post a review through Expedia.) -- the details are unreal. I'm just a vacationeer who uncovered all this mess. My name is Kelly Britt
you can contact me at [email protected] if you wish.
There *is* a tenant/landlord battle going on, and it's fueled by WooGo, AND it rips tourists like you and me off, too, AND it ruins trust in travel agencies. (can I mention if messes with the community, too?)
Shortly after sending my 2nd ShameOnExpedia.com letter to Expedia Executives, Expedia has offered me additional travel vouchers as apology for our experience. While my full desires for resolution on these circumstances remain unquenched, I do appreciate the personal gesture. I am trying to arrange for Expedia to donate these vouchers to some of the tenants in that building (like, Ivy, an eldery lady now being illegally evicted who has lived there since 1969) -- these tenants have tried so hard to be heard, against seemingly insurmountable odds...
Give skeptisim a break and check the details.
you can contact me at [email protected] if you wish.
There *is* a tenant/landlord battle going on, and it's fueled by WooGo, AND it rips tourists like you and me off, too, AND it ruins trust in travel agencies. (can I mention if messes with the community, too?)
Shortly after sending my 2nd ShameOnExpedia.com letter to Expedia Executives, Expedia has offered me additional travel vouchers as apology for our experience. While my full desires for resolution on these circumstances remain unquenched, I do appreciate the personal gesture. I am trying to arrange for Expedia to donate these vouchers to some of the tenants in that building (like, Ivy, an eldery lady now being illegally evicted who has lived there since 1969) -- these tenants have tried so hard to be heard, against seemingly insurmountable odds...
Give skeptisim a break and check the details.
Apr 29th, 2006, 08:47 AM
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Ok, what's the address of the Building in New York??
I'll be happy to follow through and check these details about the tenants, on my free time. It sounds interesting, and must be, because you have so many posts going.
If all that you say has basis in fact, then I'm sure it won't be hard to find out.
I'm amazed that you are so completely well versed on the local tenant issues within the building, being that you claim to be "just a vacationer" and only visited for a short time.
Anyhow, what's the address?
I'll be happy to follow through and check these details about the tenants, on my free time. It sounds interesting, and must be, because you have so many posts going.
If all that you say has basis in fact, then I'm sure it won't be hard to find out.
I'm amazed that you are so completely well versed on the local tenant issues within the building, being that you claim to be "just a vacationer" and only visited for a short time.
Anyhow, what's the address?
Apr 29th, 2006, 08:51 AM
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Apr 29th, 2006, 09:33 AM
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Thanks, S -I've browsed through the threads and the websites already, I'm interested in following through on the side of this that potentially deals with the tenants, and the connection between the poster and their cause, which to me is the most serious one, since it involves illegal eviction thier homes.
Apr 29th, 2006, 03:50 PM
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Grettings bellastarr, and UKers.
My first website, www.woogosucks.com tells the story a little better. Basically, a tenant first contacted me after I put up that site and posted a reference to it in tripadvisor.com -- The tenants were in the forums as a last resort to try to warn potential travelers about this property. This tenant sent me a nice letter, including a link to the NYC code violations. On top of my already mortification, I was mortified. That's when I started trying to contact the news, and to notify expedia and eventually to the ShameOnExpedia.com site just to get their attention. In NYC, FOX news network has gone undercover and has a story about the displaced tenants being illegally forced out with my vacation woven in airing this Monday on WWOR news at 10PM EST .
I was the one who told FOX through their submit a story link for their Investigative team on their website. They called me the next day.
They couldn't find out anything on WooGo, that's when I found all the years of ongoing fraud as well, largely in London ... On May 11th, there is another news story airing in Atlanta. But those story were just on the vacation and tenants, before I connected the dots to YourStay, etc... so I continue to try to get new pick-up on this. Media attention and spread-the-word seem to be the fast ways to end this horror.
Please, do your part and let people know. Contact your local travel reporter or consumer advocate and help raise awareness, please!
My first website, www.woogosucks.com tells the story a little better. Basically, a tenant first contacted me after I put up that site and posted a reference to it in tripadvisor.com -- The tenants were in the forums as a last resort to try to warn potential travelers about this property. This tenant sent me a nice letter, including a link to the NYC code violations. On top of my already mortification, I was mortified. That's when I started trying to contact the news, and to notify expedia and eventually to the ShameOnExpedia.com site just to get their attention. In NYC, FOX news network has gone undercover and has a story about the displaced tenants being illegally forced out with my vacation woven in airing this Monday on WWOR news at 10PM EST .
I was the one who told FOX through their submit a story link for their Investigative team on their website. They called me the next day.
They couldn't find out anything on WooGo, that's when I found all the years of ongoing fraud as well, largely in London ... On May 11th, there is another news story airing in Atlanta. But those story were just on the vacation and tenants, before I connected the dots to YourStay, etc... so I continue to try to get new pick-up on this. Media attention and spread-the-word seem to be the fast ways to end this horror.
Please, do your part and let people know. Contact your local travel reporter or consumer advocate and help raise awareness, please!
Apr 29th, 2006, 03:54 PM
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p.s. I am so thankful for these forms and the questions. They will help substantiate and build the truth of this whole story. I'm certainly not the first to notice or try to bring attention to this scenario. Thanks!
Apr 30th, 2006, 04:18 AM
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idbkb,
yes, please forgive my skepticism, but my almost thirty years of living in NYC has given me a certain familiarity with the ways of my hometown, so let's see what develops about your identity as a "vacationer".
Though I am sure the cause is a good one.
You have plugged your TV newscast a number of times now, so you're not lacking in media savvy anyway. That "15 minutes of fame" can really get a hold on one! Good luck, let's see who you turn out to be. What's the address of the building?
yes, please forgive my skepticism, but my almost thirty years of living in NYC has given me a certain familiarity with the ways of my hometown, so let's see what develops about your identity as a "vacationer".
Though I am sure the cause is a good one.
You have plugged your TV newscast a number of times now, so you're not lacking in media savvy anyway. That "15 minutes of fame" can really get a hold on one! Good luck, let's see who you turn out to be. What's the address of the building?
Apr 30th, 2006, 05:59 AM
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The problem is, ibdkb, is that in trying to address the issues affecting tourists and tenants as if they were congruent you are muddying the waters somewhat, which is never a good idea when one is trying to win an argument, let alone a case. For example, it presumably wouldn't alter the tenants' situation one iota if the apartments being rented to tourists were in pristine condition and big enough to accomodate the number of people claimed. That isn't why the tenants are upset - they are upset that the apartments are being rented out to tourists AT ALL, in whatsoever condition. Yet these are the things you as a vacationer contracted for, and thus constitute your claims regarding breach of contract by Woogoo.
Similarly, it is a matter of some interest in YOUR case as a VACATIONER that Woogoo might be related in some way to a similarly shoddy rental agency outfit in London. It points to the possibility that the party behind Woogoo has a history of breaching contracts - with TOURISTS. Whereas this history doesn't necessarily affect the tenants' case, unless London has similar tenancy laws that the London version of Woogoo similarly breached - which seems unlikely. I understand the desire to find support in a fight, but you also need to keep your points clear.
By the way, I'd be cautious about claiming that there was mold in the apartment with respect to some of your photos on your website. You are certainly within your rights to object to unsightly spots on the floor, but unless you can prove that you took samples and a microbiologist or whoever certified the substance as being mold (as opposed to simply paint drops, say), you might be exposing yourself somewhat here to charges that you are publishing unverified claims. Try to accept this point for what it is - better you should hear it from someone like me, than from your opponent.
Similarly, it is a matter of some interest in YOUR case as a VACATIONER that Woogoo might be related in some way to a similarly shoddy rental agency outfit in London. It points to the possibility that the party behind Woogoo has a history of breaching contracts - with TOURISTS. Whereas this history doesn't necessarily affect the tenants' case, unless London has similar tenancy laws that the London version of Woogoo similarly breached - which seems unlikely. I understand the desire to find support in a fight, but you also need to keep your points clear.
By the way, I'd be cautious about claiming that there was mold in the apartment with respect to some of your photos on your website. You are certainly within your rights to object to unsightly spots on the floor, but unless you can prove that you took samples and a microbiologist or whoever certified the substance as being mold (as opposed to simply paint drops, say), you might be exposing yourself somewhat here to charges that you are publishing unverified claims. Try to accept this point for what it is - better you should hear it from someone like me, than from your opponent.
Apr 30th, 2006, 06:25 AM
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Sue_xx_yy,
You have described perfectly the point that caused me to question ibdkb, much better than I could.
Because the tenants of the building are actually on the other side of the issue than someone in the building as a vacationer, and I think you are correct in pointing out how this could be used in any legal battle.
Illegal rentals on a nightly basis has happened in some of the NYC buildings I've lived in over the years, and the people who come in and out as "tourists" or "visitors" are necessarily the people that tenants would see as effective advocates for a cause such as illegal evictions. It's definitely apple and oranges, which is why I had trouble understanding the OP's bringing building tenants into the argument.
You have described perfectly the point that caused me to question ibdkb, much better than I could.
Because the tenants of the building are actually on the other side of the issue than someone in the building as a vacationer, and I think you are correct in pointing out how this could be used in any legal battle.
Illegal rentals on a nightly basis has happened in some of the NYC buildings I've lived in over the years, and the people who come in and out as "tourists" or "visitors" are necessarily the people that tenants would see as effective advocates for a cause such as illegal evictions. It's definitely apple and oranges, which is why I had trouble understanding the OP's bringing building tenants into the argument.
