Yourstay.com now also Woogo.com
 

This screen name is an alias, I don't want my email address posted on this post.
I just saw a post on Usenet's rec.travel.europe giving this heads-up and thought I'd pass it on along with a website for those who hadn't heard of this company.
http://notyourstay.0catch.com
For the search engine: yourstay woogo london paris apartment rental
www.yourstay.com www.woogo.com

Yes, It looks like bad stuff. Check www.ShameOnExpedia.com for what is going on with WooGo in New York City.

Will it ever end?

When I first searched Internet for our London vacation apartment, I saw some interesting-looking ones on WooGo. One of them had a virtual tour with details that didn't make spatial sense, like door placement. Thanks to this forum, I dumped them early on.

The websites mentioned are personal sites that appear to be generated by one individual- hard to say for sure. One of them links back to Fodors, and so it shows a certain amount of sophistication using the internet.

It is possible that this could be generated by an enraged tenant or tenant group being pressured to leave their building ("Woogo Lincoln Center Apartments"?) trying to fight the system that allows these building conversions in NYC and probably elsewhere. I'm not saying it is, but it is possible.
I say this because whoever is writing the complaint to Expedia shows a much broader and much more detailed awareness of NYC rent stabilization laws and apartment/hotel situations in NY than an ordinary traveler would have.

And this person mentions they are going to be on television on Monday, so they are plugging that event.

As to the accuracy of the information related to travelers, I would need to know more from a third source. There are many buildings in NYC where battles are waged between rent stabilized tenants and landlords/overlords, this might be part of one of those ongoing battles. Not taking sides here
(in which I would sympathize with tenants rights), just expressing that there appear to be other motives than those of a simple traveler.

Oh, I have such insomnia tonight!

Bellastar, while I think you are right to use some caution about Internet stories, the motives of the person posting aren't that relevant. (This goes both ways - when a poster responding to one of these Woogoo threads was accused of working for Expedia because they defended the company's handling of the traveler/tenant/whoever's complaint. )
The thing is, even if a poster does have other motives, this in and of itself doesn't render such points as they raise invalid.

In particular, the Woogoo thing raises an interesting issue. Companies that are scam operations can, once shut down, resurface under a different name. This can be a real problem for consumers, since we rely on sharing information with other consumers to make good decisions. Perhaps too much so - perhaps the real index of a business' reliability ought to be the number of years it has been in operation, coupled with whether it appears in any guidebook, rather than the number of good (or bad) reviews one reads on the Internet.

Now, the hard part seems to be finding out how long a business has been in operation. Anyone know? (It might well vary from country to country...)

I don't think the poster's basic points are invalid, I just think the other possibility (that the poster or group may be the one who created those protest websites, and may or may not be a traveler-I may be wrong, but my NY instinct tells me they are tenants with an axe to grind) can be factored in.

The practice of illegal short-term sublets has been common in NYC for a long time, whether by individuals or by more organized means. It's a by-product of the ultra-high cost of living. If the WooGoo thing is a real problem, it's good to know about it, but it's been going on far longer than they could have been in business under any name, I assure you.

If they are doing what the poster implies, then they should be banned from advertising on travel sites, and it's a good cause. But apartments used illegally as short term sublets in NY will continue long beyond this.

I'm the one who created the protest websites, starting with www.woogosucks.com (which simply began with my frustration for not being able to post a review through Expedia.) -- the details are unreal. I'm just a vacationeer who uncovered all this mess. My name is Kelly Britt
you can contact me at [email protected] if you wish.

There *is* a tenant/landlord battle going on, and it's fueled by WooGo, AND it rips tourists like you and me off, too, AND it ruins trust in travel agencies. (can I mention if messes with the community, too?)

Shortly after sending my 2nd ShameOnExpedia.com letter to Expedia Executives, Expedia has offered me additional travel vouchers as apology for our experience. While my full desires for resolution on these circumstances remain unquenched, I do appreciate the personal gesture. I am trying to arrange for Expedia to donate these vouchers to some of the tenants in that building (like, Ivy, an eldery lady now being illegally evicted who has lived there since 1969) -- these tenants have tried so hard to be heard, against seemingly insurmountable odds...

Give skeptisim a break and check the details.

Ok, what's the address of the Building in New York??
I'll be happy to follow through and check these details about the tenants, on my free time. It sounds interesting, and must be, because you have so many posts going.

If all that you say has basis in fact, then I'm sure it won't be hard to find out.

I'm amazed that you are so completely well versed on the local tenant issues within the building, being that you claim to be "just a vacationer" and only visited for a short time.

Anyhow, what's the address?

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34790210

You can start here bellastar :)

Thanks, S -I've browsed through the threads and the websites already, I'm interested in following through on the side of this that potentially deals with the tenants, and the connection between the poster and their cause, which to me is the most serious one, since it involves illegal eviction thier homes.

:)

Yourstay sounded familiar to me from a while back on this forum. If you do a search with yourstay + london, the old posts from the summer of '04 come up....

Grettings bellastarr, and UKers.

My first website, www.woogosucks.com tells the story a little better. Basically, a tenant first contacted me after I put up that site and posted a reference to it in tripadvisor.com -- The tenants were in the forums as a last resort to try to warn potential travelers about this property. This tenant sent me a nice letter, including a link to the NYC code violations. On top of my already mortification, I was mortified. That's when I started trying to contact the news, and to notify expedia and eventually to the ShameOnExpedia.com site just to get their attention. In NYC, FOX news network has gone undercover and has a story about the displaced tenants being illegally forced out with my vacation woven in airing this Monday on WWOR news at 10PM EST .

I was the one who told FOX through their submit a story link for their Investigative team on their website. They called me the next day.

They couldn't find out anything on WooGo, that's when I found all the years of ongoing fraud as well, largely in London ... On May 11th, there is another news story airing in Atlanta. But those story were just on the vacation and tenants, before I connected the dots to YourStay, etc... so I continue to try to get new pick-up on this. Media attention and spread-the-word seem to be the fast ways to end this horror.

Please, do your part and let people know. Contact your local travel reporter or consumer advocate and help raise awareness, please!

p.s. I am so thankful for these forms and the questions. They will help substantiate and build the truth of this whole story. I'm certainly not the first to notice or try to bring attention to this scenario. Thanks!

idbkb,

yes, please forgive my skepticism, but my almost thirty years of living in NYC has given me a certain familiarity with the ways of my hometown, so let's see what develops about your identity as a "vacationer".

Though I am sure the cause is a good one.

You have plugged your TV newscast a number of times now, so you're not lacking in media savvy anyway. That "15 minutes of fame" can really get a hold on one! Good luck, let's see who you turn out to be. What's the address of the building?

Wow. This is incredible....

I just looked at woogos website and they have those same pictures up for the one bedroom apartment.

Isn't this fraud??

The problem is, ibdkb, is that in trying to address the issues affecting tourists and tenants as if they were congruent you are muddying the waters somewhat, which is never a good idea when one is trying to win an argument, let alone a case. For example, it presumably wouldn't alter the tenants' situation one iota if the apartments being rented to tourists were in pristine condition and big enough to accomodate the number of people claimed. That isn't why the tenants are upset - they are upset that the apartments are being rented out to tourists AT ALL, in whatsoever condition. Yet these are the things you as a vacationer contracted for, and thus constitute your claims regarding breach of contract by Woogoo.

Similarly, it is a matter of some interest in YOUR case as a VACATIONER that Woogoo might be related in some way to a similarly shoddy rental agency outfit in London. It points to the possibility that the party behind Woogoo has a history of breaching contracts - with TOURISTS. Whereas this history doesn't necessarily affect the tenants' case, unless London has similar tenancy laws that the London version of Woogoo similarly breached - which seems unlikely. I understand the desire to find support in a fight, but you also need to keep your points clear.

By the way, I'd be cautious about claiming that there was mold in the apartment with respect to some of your photos on your website. You are certainly within your rights to object to unsightly spots on the floor, but unless you can prove that you took samples and a microbiologist or whoever certified the substance as being mold (as opposed to simply paint drops, say), you might be exposing yourself somewhat here to charges that you are publishing unverified claims. Try to accept this point for what it is - better you should hear it from someone like me, than from your opponent.

Sue_xx_yy,
You have described perfectly the point that caused me to question ibdkb, much better than I could.

Because the tenants of the building are actually on the other side of the issue than someone in the building as a vacationer, and I think you are correct in pointing out how this could be used in any legal battle.

Illegal rentals on a nightly basis has happened in some of the NYC buildings I've lived in over the years, and the people who come in and out as "tourists" or "visitors" are necessarily the people that tenants would see as effective advocates for a cause such as illegal evictions. It's definitely apple and oranges, which is why I had trouble understanding the OP's bringing building tenants into the argument.

Sorry, I menat to say that "Visitors" or "tourists" AREN'T the people tenants would see as affective partners in a fight over illegal evictions.

My, what an assumptive bunch! I've never applied congruence to the any of the harmed groups plights. And actually, the tenants have benefited from my emootional charge of personal wrong. It IS connected, one thing compounds the other.

How closely are have you read my complaint before becoming critical? There are address on my website, as well as on the links to two different NYC code violations.


The address on my Expedia Itenerary is 244 W 64th St
New York, NY 10023

But again, if you read the story, they walk you a block and half to another building to check in, then to yet another building for your room. Our very first suspicion of this place was the fact that our NYC Taxi driver was having difficulty locating the address.

Plus, as a sense of plain human decency, I don't like to see a elderly woman who has lived there since 1969 be illegally evicted, or a community doctor, resident for 10 years become fearful for his saftey.

You don't have to stretch to hard to find a sense of humanity to the tenants plight. Have you lost all sense of decency?

Thanks for the address- that's right on my way to work.

For the record, sure I am interested and willing to actively support tenant's rights in NYC, but I still question whether these evictions are heavily connected to the traveler's complaint. I think they are broader, ongoing issues that are not limited to this one building complex.

Rent stabilization and the laws pertaining to it is a hot-button issue in NYC.

Maybe the tenants feel your involvement is a tool they can use. Maybe you are more closely involved with them than as a vacationer. Unless Woogo is the owner of the building, theirs is a larger battle.

There are dozens and dozens of these wrongful eviction stories here in NY. It's an old, old story. I've heard several horror stories here in my immediate neighborhood.

I don't see any lack of human decency going on in this debate, just a questioning approach by someone who lives in the area. If you are going to go the legal route with your story, you'll probably get many more questions than these too.

You seem serious and sincere, so if your story is based on unembellished facts, there would be no need for defensiveness when people ask questions or want clarification before they jump on the wagon.

Bellastar--you could be right, but couldn't it also just be the truth that the OP is posting? I don't see why you seem so angry at the original poster.....

Yes, could be the truth.

No, not angry, sorry you think so. Well maybe a little angry when the poster implied that I have no sense of human decency, but decide to less it do.

Button was pushed personally regarding the wrongful eviction issue, that's all. Have friends who have been pushed out of their homes here in NY. It was no picnic.

Live in an area that has more than it's share of SROs with 28 day turnover. (Actually, I doubt if the OP even knows what that means in a neighborhood.)

And the idea that a travel voucher would be relevant to a 69 year woman losing her home, which set me off

Will watch the TV newscast tonight to see more of the story.

Still believe curiosity and asking questions is a healthy habit, and will always do it.

ilovetotravel29

Merely telling the truth will not automatically make things better. (Telling someone they look like a fat cow in that dress, even if this is the gospel truth, is not likely going to magically turn said person into a better-dressed person. And she is certainly not going to thank you for your honesty, or even for drawing her attention, which you most certainly would get.)

So, the truth is not a blunt instrument to hit people over the head with. It is not enough to tell it; one must think before speaking; one must tell the truth responsibly, and refrain from browbeating people by implying that unless they agree NOW with everything that has been said and/or proposed, they are inhumane, indecent, etc. etc.

So, one must also tell the truth with realistic expectations. Any truth points to certain specific issues that require specific actions. What issues? What actions? If a person doesn't work these things out, the truth in and of itself won't do the work for them in an ordinary situation, let alone a courtroom.

Along with not being thanked for one's honesty, one is not being realistic to assume that merely telling the truth will have things get better fast. And the more important a truth is, the more things likely need to be done before things get better. Being melodramatic and impatient, being relentlessly nagging about matters will not help - it will merely tire out such supporters as one has, and drive them away.

Sue---I see your point, but that was not my argument at all. But thanks for the input anyway.

OK, now I'm getting nervous about my own reservations. I've rented from www.imagineireland.com for our trip this June, and they asked for the payment up front -- am I a fool? Has anyone else rented from them? Thanks!

Searching for this Woogo story online, I started checking out Kelly Britt's background, and found some interesting things about this person.

It seems he submitted himself as a candidate on Donald Trump's "The Apprentice" 2nd Season. And other details. Will continue search later, very busy at work today. Internet makes life interesting...

For a person who is "too busy" to take the time now, you sure have enough time to keep posting this same odd comment on enough different posts, bellastar.

What is you point? Is it that anyone who ever applied to be on the Apprentice must be a serial killer or something? I fail to see what you're driving at, but you seem to be giving it a negative slant for some reason that I don't understand.

"Well maybe a little angry when the poster implied that I have no sense of human decency".

I apologize for that comment.

If I'm helping the tenants, I don't understand your harsh skepticsim.

I am a vacationer. I don't have much to offer IVY, or Pablo, or any of the other deserving tenants I've met in that building. I want Expedia and WooGo to be responsible for helping restablish some sense of community in that property. I thought that if I made a gesture, with what little Expedia was giving me towards the tenants, that might help clue Expedia in a little on where the real need was.

You are free to investigate me all you want, but it detracts from the issue at hand, which you seem to be concerned about. In fact, you can email me [email protected], and I'll call you -- you can interview me and my family to your hearts content. What about me would you like to know that I have not already answered?

Again, my apologies for the inapprorpiate comment about decency.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding out who I am. But, there is something wrong when you try to bait what you find as suspicious or negative and use it to defame my name. I only questioned your lack of decency, because you are so negatively skeptical against what is going on wrong here.

Additionally, when I repeatedly correct your mis-perceptions about my inolvement in this situation, you continue to ignore the corrections, and try to refocus the attention on me.

Folks, the problem is not me. I'm not even holding myself out as a hired public service. I've posted facts and sources to all information I have. Don't trust me, trust the facts I have found. www.WooGoSucks.com

It appears that Kelly has a fan....or would that be a stalker? ;)

The negative reports about Yourstay.com go back for several years at least. I remember the poster Calamari had a horrible experience at her apartment in London, and there have been many others as well. One person had a bad honeymoon stay at a Yourstay.com apartment in Paris.

OK Folks, I got your messages.

No, I am not a stalker.
I am a NYC resident.

I have been posting here for a while and usually have tried to give helpful suggestion to people to travel in areas in Italy where i have direct experience.

I am not "investigating" this Kelly Britt person. But I was interested in who he/she is. So I tried to find out, the same way he is researching and using personal stories about tenants in the building he's talking about.

I see that I am being flamed and called ugly names ("Stalker") for not agreeing with the majority. It's getting too ugly for me, and it feels bad, so You all Win.

I'm crawling away now and leaving you to yourselves. Hopefully you will forget I ever existed. Yuck. Can't wait to get to Italy and forget this!

Bye. I'm gone for awhile, and when I come back, I will studiously avoid any of these threads, not to worry.

bella, sorry, you dug your own hole.

The real topic on had is:

www.WooGoSucks.com

In NYC, UPN 9, aired a scathing 5 minute news segment on all the illegal activities that are fleecing tenants and tourists under the WooGo business name. I'm working with Fox to get permission to post a copy on my site.

Please help spread the word.