kappa1

> but I am surprised that August is not high season for those two towns - and yeh I have been to both in August and both were zoos ....

I can tell only for Venice. Accomodation-wise, July/August is a "shoulder season" and many hotels offer lower, sometimes surprisingly very low prices, that I took advantage of a couple of times. If I would not return to Venice in these months, that's because I found the city too hot/humid to enjoy it fully, but that's me. Most of my visits have been between November and March. Especially I have been there close to 10 times during Christmas. Lot less crowds ( Venetian Christmas is rather quiet) and until normally the end of Christmas, the hotel rates can be ones of the lowest. (after that toward new year, can be one of the most expensive). Also have had generally great weather ( nice for island visits such as Murano and Burano ), so personally that's the best time to visit Venice. Will be there again end of this year.

kappa1

> I normally love the walk down Rue des Francs Bourgeois, but this time I seriously questioned if I would go back ..

I did that walk ( as I have done before ) in September just before lunch hour from the Pompidou side toward Place Vosges. It was fine, lively, crowded a bit but never too much.

jaja

Spring and Autumn are also times for school outings....mobs of rude schoolchildren. Not sure how to know to avoid them.

bvlenci

Ian says, regarding the Borghese Gallery,

[[ Since the Borghese is a timed ticket, it is very manageable. When your appointed time arrives, go in with the crowd & immediately go upstairs first. 90% of the people will start on the lower floor. People are cattle . . .]]

Even with the timed entry, the Borghese Gallery is a mob scene. Even before you get inside, you have to wait in a long line to pick up your tickets, and in a scrum to check your bags (even the small ones). The first time I was there was close to twenty years ago, and it was nowhere near as popular then, but that was before the days of the Top 10 lists ...

outwest

"Even with the timed entry, the Borghese Gallery is a mob scene."

That was our experience as well--and we were there in February (maybe 6-7 years ago).

dfourh

>>>>>>>July/August is a "shoulder season" and many hotels offer lower, sometimes surprisingly very low prices ... I would not return to Venice in these months.

I was going to Venice every August for about 10 years, and the key was to stay on Lido, and spend lots of time in the vaporetti on the lagoon, to the islands, and down the canals. You can zip to San Marco early or late when things die down (and when the light is nice) and vaporetto around mid-day or just siesta for a bit - - and, of course, also go to the beach.

Sojourntraveller

I understand why people go to cities the first time around but I would have thought that a few more of you would have got past that by now. You can't all be novice travellers.

In the OP, PalenQ wrote, "These are places that are small - too small to nicely absorb the hoards descending on them during their busiest seasons."

If you then look at the places he listed, none of the usual suspects are there except Venice. No Rome, no London, Paris, etc. So why is everyone commenting on major cities rather than smaller places (as PalenQ wrote the OP about) that are overwhelmed by tourists in season?

Cinque Terre is a perfect example of a small group of villages that mass tourism (thanks in no small part to Rick Steves) has ruined. In peak season they now give out tickets and limit the number of people allowed on the trails per hour. That tells you all you need to know. There are other SMALL places as PalenQ wrote, that are the same.

So which SMALL places have you visited that are mobbed by tourists in season and best avoided. Surely you haven't just been to major cities.

HappyTrvlr

Oia, Santorini, Greece, cruise ship mobs
Monaco, cruise ship mobs
Cinque Terre, Italy
San Gimignano, Italy...First visit was mobbed with bus tours,returned on a less crowded day and time and it was lovely.

dugi_otok

London, Paris, and Rome are so crowded that nobody goes there any more!

kerouac

If Avignon was not crowded in July during the festival, I would not want to go there.

lovetoroam

We were in Verona around middle of September a couple years ago and it was quite crowded (especially Juliet's House). Still enjoyed it overall.

danon

I changed flights at Heathrow on Friday. It took TWO hours to get through passport and security control
at Terminal 5. That was the worst mob scene I have seen in a long time.

Sojourntraveller

You could start a semi-useful thread on that topic danon. Airport transit/connection times are something I think people fail to factor in when booking flights.

In cases where there are multiple terminals, having to move from one terminal to the other when connecting, can take more time than people realize and allow too little time for when booking their flights.

Then there is which airports have the worst/longest security/passport control etc. lineups as in your example of Heathrow. That too can cause people to allow too little time.

danon

On my way to Spain , passport and security control took about 35 minutes...
On the way back ( from Lisbon), perhaps because it was Friday afternoon, the crowds were incredible.
I had three hours between flights realizing that
controls would take some time, I never expected to have to run to my gate ( of course, I had to take a train to the area where the gate was ).. boarding was already in progress.
What I am trying to say is that at different times one can have a different experience at the same airport.
I usually avoid Heathrow and fly through Amsterdam, but this time this was the best connection.
Or so I thought.

rmfish

Danon or anyone,
I am flying from US to ZURICH on BA with a change of planes at Heathrow. Will I have to go through customs or security at Heathrow? Thanks.

gomiki

tuscan, we were in Paris that weekend too. And in the same area. I thought it was crowded but I have been there when the stores have the windows decorated for Christmas and it is worse then. That was also the weekend of Nuit Blanche so it was extra busy. Don't give up on Paris!

PalenQ

rmfish - best to make a separate post with the gist of your question in the thread title to get several relevant responses - here it may well be lost.

PalenQ

that said I'm fairly sure your bags will be checked thru to Zurich and you only transit London - Britain is not in the Schengen Agreement of customs/borders being most of the EU and a few other countries like Switzerland so there would be no need to check you in London unless you want to go out of the transit area.

danon

Mfish, yes....even when changing planes , you are entering the country.
I was flying BA to Madrid and bak from Lisbon.

dwdvagamundo

tuscan--just back from Paris last week. While certain areas were crowded (Rue de Rivoli on Saturday nite and the Ile de La Cite on Sunday evening), most weren't. We stayed in the Marais and did not notice any crowds. We were even able to tour the Chateau at Versailles in the A.M. without TOO many tourists; as we had been warned about this, we were pleasantly surprised. Should have waited til after lunch, though, as it was fairly empty then.

Nothing like the crowds of college kids we experienced in Venice in the springtime several years ago.